correct air cleaner for 1967-1972 Eldorado

[Motor City]

I know the Jo-Han Eldorado kits incorrectly used the early Toronado dual-snorkel air cleaner.  Did the '67-'70 Coupe deVille and deVille kits use the correct single-snorkel air cleaner?  I didn't see anything on Ebay, and was wondering if the other Cadillacs also used the wrong air cleaner.   Thanks!

Edited February 26, 2021 by Motor City
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[Can-Con]

The whole engine's incorrect, not just the air cleaner. It's just the Olds engine from the Toronado with "CADILLAC" script added to the valve covers.

[Motor City]

Steve,

I've never built one of these kits and never knew that Jo-Han put the Olds engine in there.  I'll have to compare it to my '68 Eldorado parked in the garage!  Did the '68-'70 deVilles also use the Olds engine?

[Mark]

The DeVille kits used a simplified engine, probably the same engine with some crude revisions from 1963-70.  Jo-Han may have retooled the cylinder heads/intake/distributor (all one piece) to move the distributor around to the front, maybe they just reversed the existing piece, maybe they didn't change it at all.  I've got kits for most years but don't have them handy to check.  In any event, the DeVille engine isn't worth bothering with.  

[Motor City]

Steve and Mark,

Thanks for the input.  The Cadillac script was used on the valve covers for the 390 and 429 engines, but the 472 (starting in 1968) and 500 (starting with the '70 Eldorado) valve covers didn't have any writing on them.  The valve covers on all of these engines were painted.  I forgot I had a Jo-Han '63 deVille kit in addition to several Eldorados.  They all have chromed valve covers with the Cadillac script, which is incorrect.

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Motor City

[Can-Con]

So, This would be a 429 then? The distributor and alternator makes it look like a mid-'70s engine.

[Rodent]

1 hour ago, Can-Con said:

The distributor and alternator makes it look like a mid-'70s engine.

Definitely an HEI distributor. Aluminum intake as well, looks like a little hot-rodding was afoot.

[Motor City]

It may also be a 390 (used from '59-'63).  I've only had 425, 472 and 500 Eldorados, which have the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) on a machined surface on top of the block, just behind the intake manifold, on the passenger side.  It may be in the same location on most of the 429s.  I believe the VIN is also on top, at the front of the 390 engine, passenger side.  The VIN format changed somewhat over the years.  For example, through '64, the first two characters are the model year, and the third character is a body code.  Starting in '65, the first character is the body code, followed by one number for the model year.  The VIN went to a new industry standard starting in 1972.  

390 (1959-1963), 429 (1964-1967), 472 (1968-1974), 500 (1970-1976 Eldorado, 1975-1976 other big Cadillacs)

I don't know if the valve covers are interchangeable between all of these engines.

[Mark]

The 1949-63 and 1964-up engines are two different generations, different designs for the most part.  The first generation engines have the distributor at the back, the later engines have it at the front.

The Jo-Han DeVille kits first included engines for 1963.  These are simplified assemblies.  There is no separate carburetor on the early engines.  The intake manifold and cylinder heads are molded as a unit, with the distributor molded as part of the intake.  At some point, the distributor was moved from back to front, by simply reversing the intake/cylinder heads piece and moving the locating pins on the engine block!  The runners on the intake manifold were squared off a bit also.  My '63 kits have the early setup (more rounded intake runners, distributor at the rear) while my '66 annual has the later setup (squared off intake runners, distributor at the front).  The '68 convertible reissue and USA Oldies '64 kits have the later configuration also.  I don't have a '64 or '65 annual kit, my guess is that the change was made in either of those kits.

[Motor City]

Mark is correct; I had forgotten that the distributor was in the rear on the first generation; the engine in the photo is a 1964 or newer;  

I only have deVille promos for '64-'70, so I don't know when the engine was updated in the kit, but it is decent enough for most of us

[Can-Con]

Years ago Ken Kitchen cast a 60's/'70s Cadillac engine.  I had done reference on the engine and mastered the valve covers. 

It was based on a 429 Ford and was supposed to have been modified to look more like a Caddy unit but Ken didn't make the mods I suggested. 

Still pretty close but not 100%. I understand he doesn't cast them any more though.

Pics from Ken's fotki,,

[Mark]

The 429 Ford engine is probably the best starting point for a conversion.  Builders of 1:1 late Cad engines adapt aftermarket Ford intakes, and sometimes valve covers, to the Cadillac mill.

Before starting a conversion though, maybe check vendors of 3D printed conversion parts...maybe someone already offers a late Cadillac engine.  

[Can-Con]

10 minutes ago, Mark said:

Builders of 1:1 late Cad engines adapt aftermarket Ford intakes, and sometimes valve covers, to the Cadillac mill.

 

That's what gave me the idea to use the Ford engine.

I remember back in the mid to late '90s one of the rodding magazines did a Caddy engine buildup article using the Ford parts with adapters.