Pete J.

I believe it was Pope Gregory the ???? something. He did it to make the church celebration coincide with the winter solstice so that the church celebration would try to replace the pagan celebration of the shortest day of the year. Politics as usual. Having said that I still wish all of you a very Merry Christmas. May the fridge be stuffed with great food, the living room be stuffed with great friends, and the model bench be stuffed with great plastic. Have a great celebration no matter what you celebrate.

Also perferates the metal to make them easier to chew!

Lets not forget the Mark IIa's and Mark IIb's - The B's were updated A's with differant heads and differant brake ducts. Everyone thinks of the cars as either Allen Mann or Shelby cars, lets don't forget about the Holman Moody cars(3rd place car in 1966). Oh, heck, they are just a mess.

Jairus - You are right, but when the Mark II's and successive models came about, the first car became a Mark I by default. If you refer to a GT40 people will question "which one". If you say Mark I people know exactly which one you refer to. Not exactly correct but it keeps things tidy.

Hmmmmmm, Ok just got to find another kit.

My point exactly! WPC had a passion for engineering and cars. I frankly don't think anyone at the highest levels of the big three really gives a hoot about cars, just money.

Every once in a while I just have to set the super detail aside and do something that lets the imagination go in a different direction. This is one of my weirder concepts. I had just finished a 1:12 935 super detail and had some decals left over. I was rummaging through the kits I knew I would never build and came across a Surfit. This was the result. I hope it lifts the spirits here as much as it did mine. If you have a piece such as this, I invite you to add to this group.

Well, at least we all agree - This is a fine mess! Everyone has a piece of the blame and all of us have our favorite villains. The other Peter made a good point about our politicians but I think it goes back to JFK. He was the first president that had to contend with being a actor. Every president and then senator and congressman finally got the message. Good actors get elected. There is not much emphasis place on leadership ability. That is the stupidity of the American voter. Don't get me wrong, I am sure that this applies in every representative form of government on the planet. Until we start looking at the history of our officials we are doomed to repeat this scenario ad nausium. Now we will get lucky once in a while and get a real leader, but it is unlikely. As to just giving the big three the money and getting on with it, that is just plain wrong. If we do that, they will continue in the same path because there is no reason to do otherwise. It is time to revamp the auto industry in the US and now is as good a time as any. The next disaster could be terminal. We have people out there that are bright enough to figure this out. We need them now. I hope the new administration can find them much like Kennedy did. Take the best minds form all fields and bring them into the administration and get this right. Not business as usual. I am not hopeful of this but I can wish. Speaking of Wishes - I wish you all a Merry Christmas. A little early, but heart felt.

Harry - Got to go with real. The chrome and the reflections look to real for a model unless it is scratch built out of brass and then real chrome plated.

Two last tips. First make sure your wires are straight to start with. No strange lumps or bends. Ignition wires in cars are very smooth. To do this grab both ends of the wire with two pair of pliers and stretch them just a bit. By pulling on each end the wire will straighten. Second tip. If you can't find the firing order, just mix them up. Alternate which side they go to and don't do straight front to back. Incidental, no one will really know. Keep the bends in the wires as smooth as possible.

Harry - I've been around a while and have heard these rumors for years. I think the first time it was associated with Big Oil paying off the Big Three to sit on it. I suspect it stems from the dismantling of the LA transit system so GM could sell buses in LA and Firestone could sell tires. Lots of paranoid people putting forth conspiracy theory's. There have been all kinds of gadgets to improve mileage for years, but none has ever been proven to work. I have a friend who did his PhD work in engine combustion and spent years at JPL using that information. He says that a practical engine in that mileage just would produce enough HP to move the average family sedan in an manner acceptable to the buying public.

Oh it is quite true. Trouble is they only have 10 hp and would do about 30 mph. Remember the "Mobil Economy Run" of the late 50's ? Huge mileage numbers in cars that just were not practical. Some motorcycles get better than 150 mpg. Most of them are 50ccs or smaller.

Actually, Buick and Cadillac, even Chevy and Ford, have been up there for a number of years now according to most surveys. It's public perceptions that hinder most of their progress now. Perception is a huge problem and it's going to take a lot of time to get people to actually get off their high horse and get into a dealership. Probably true and that is the issue. Displays like the one before congress, do nothing to improve that image. I also throw this out: What the hell makes imports any less susceptible to parts failures then domestics? I have an 88 Astro that continues to chug along with over 265,000 miles on it. My neighbor has a 1990 Accord that 3 different times now has had cylinder liners fracture. Each time costs quite a bit in repairs, but he defends that Honda as more reliable then domestic cars. I hardly consider his Honda any more of a quality product then my Astro. And this isn't bias speaking, I've worked for GM and I've worked for Honda in my life. I think there is a difference in how the imports or domestic Japanese dealers handle the problems. I have a couple of Acuras and they have had transmission failure. Result - company replaced them, one with just over 100,000 miles. No question or argument. I can't imagine that happening at a big three dealership. Yep, true fact, but what has kept the Big three from following suit. They went completely out of the country rather than to more advantageous domestic location. GM is very profitable in China, but who here cares! Open a new plant in the south, close one that is unprofitable some where else. Good business. Not really a good thing locally and I would feel sorry for the workers who lost their job, but good business. Now I am not naive enough to believe it is that easy, but it can be done. Think about what you just said for a second. What would keep a maker from ditching one local union chapter and sending those jobs to a non union plant in the same country? The simple answer is the UAW. If any one of the makers tried this, there would be a national shutdown immediately. The Union would NOT tolerate this. It was actually easier to move jobs away then it was to break the unions. The jobs reappearing a couple states away would be a more direct slap in the face to the unions then the jobs going to Mexico or China. The unions can be a real pain in the butt and if you've ever been around them for two shakes you'd understand exactly how they can interfer. Close a plant and move it south to a non-union area and there would be hell to pay. There would also be an immediate impact on perception all across the country from sympathetic unions. They may never buy your products again. Backlash. This is true for a very entrenched union. There is no longer fair bargaining going on. Explain to me why a union should have such power? They are partners in killing this industry as much as the leadership and congress. Everyone seems to think that the extreme technology is necessary. Continuous research is needed to be competitive and it doesn't pay off for years. Rushing it to market is not a good idea. Develop it until it is ready. Heck, I don't like the hybrids that are running on the road now, but some do. All I want is a car with a reputation for durability that handles well with moderate fuel economy. The kicker here is history and the big three have a history that just doesn't measure up. Sorry. You only research the technologies that people show interest in. Cadillac once offered thermal night vision but it wasn't desired by many of it's customers. The technology faded away instead of being researched further. Another example is Toyota also deployed an electric car that also failed. Public interest wasn't there because gas was 1.10/gal. Companies are out to make money off things that appeal to consumers. You yourself spoke of good business, and sinking money into something that won't be accepted is bad business. Even the Prius was a money pit when it was first deployed. Toyota waited years and two product generations for it to break even, and it may never have if gas prices hadn't become so unstable. I agree that some tech is utter garbage. VW is deploying a system in Europe (but not in the US as VW decided that the US has too many lawsuits and too much corporate blame-think hot coffee from McDonalds) that not only alerts you to you starting to drift out of the road lines but also physically corrects the car itself without input from the driver. Personally, I don't want that anywhere near my car, seems like something could go horribly wrong. But it's out there. Also that parking system that Lexus offers, and now I believe Audi has a version of. I do not want my car to park itself, but obviously these companies did market research and found that enough people thought it competent that they did the research and deployed the technology. Another thing is that the technologies that we see deploying right now have been in the design stage for years already. Automakers are a long design cycle industry. Recently the Wall Street Journal alluded that if Steve Jobs was put in charge of GM, we would all be driving ICars in a year or less. Like Angus Mackenzie (Editor-Motortrend) asserted, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for any auto company-even profit rich Toyota- to design and tool up for a car in a year, or even two most likely. Autos are a long term strategy as it is. The model you buy today was probably in design 5 years ago. People are clamoring for the Chevy Volt, asking where it is, why it wasn't here for the high gas prices, or why it's going to be so expensive. It's completely new tech that's been in design for slightly over 2 years now. They are in fact doing as you say, getting it right and testing it before sending it out. Just takes time. Absolutely true, but most R&D goes nowhere just as a general rule. Just a fact of life. The truth is that in each failure you learn things that apply else where and in ways unexpected. Charles Kettering(incidentally my neighbor is a grandson) set up the GM Tech center and it was the hub of future automotive engineering for the world. Difference was that GM was committed to pure research. You don't find that much any more. Most auto research is aimed at meeting safety and fuel requirements and now "Green" requirements. In this respect and in a world economy perhaps a single auto maker in the US might make a little more sense. Share the research and Tech. You can bet the rest of the world does. The Japanese are all in bed with each other for the most part and the Germans swap pieces on a regular basis. Don't point fingers at others and scream "They are doing it too" as a method of justifying inappropriate activity. Wrong is Wrong. Degree is relevant only for the amount of punishment that should be meted out. It's all perspective. I wasn't concerned about Mulally or Wagoner making a base salary of several million dollars (and in fact Wagoner was NOT receiving bonuses) this summer when gas prices were soaring and I could barely afford to drive to work. I was much more concerned with the way Mobil gave a bonus of over 400 Million to it's outgoing CEO for robbing the American consumer and economy. I was much more upset because I had to pay 4 times what I had paid last year to tow my camper for vacation because speculators had driven prices up and CEO's were being compensated graciously because of it. Complain about what affects you most. Most companies right now are overpaying for under-performance. It's just reality. My complaint is exorbitant amounts of money paid CEO's in general, whether it be bonus or base salary. I currently work for Sears and we paid an executive $5,000,000 just to go away. Our prior CEO lay down in bed with Eddy Lampert, sold the company down the river and walked away with $15,000,000. Now the company is sucking gas because they won't invest in infrastructure and inventory. I am just sick of the rampant raping of American companies by a class of hired guns. The banking crisis has caused the exposure of many a poor practice world wide, and across a lot of industries. Yes, other auto makers are on the door step asking for help and I do not deny that the US auto makers need help. I think they need help as much as the banks, but I will be damned if I will sit still for in your face arrogance by a bunch of filthy rich turkeys, even at Thanksgiving. Won't stand for it from the banks, the auto companies or anyone else. Yes, help the big three, but there had better be a come to Jesus meeting regarding exorbitant salaries and bonuses. There had better be no bonuses in any industry that takes a government handout, except to the workers who build the product. It is time to cut these arrogant idiots down to size. I'll be d***d if my tax dollars are going to go into the pocket of some filthy rich b*****d. Your tax dollars are already lining the pockets of filthy rich b*****ds. They are called elected officials and they are so dirty in all this that it's infuriating. And we continue to let them muck up the works. Revolution would be preferable to the continued corruption. As I said, Randy "Duke" Cunningham was my congressman. As an ex-military officer, Viet Nam Vet, pilot, Californian, taxpayer and Republican, I am so hurt, insulted and ashamed of what he represented, I get sick each time I hear his name. He had the guts to got to GW and ask for a pardon last month. May he rot in some stinking jail cell for the rest of his life. I don't think any one hates the big three. Over the last 40 years I would have loved to see the US automakers kicking the tails of the rest of the world. We did it once. We had the best engineered vehicles in the world. Automobiles have been an integral part of our culture for a long time and we love our cars, but we will not stand for stupid arrogance. Showing up in front of congress, with no plan and screaming Me too! Me too! , when you personally made more money last year than most city budgets in America is just more than I can stand. Most of us work our tails off to make ends meet and it just makes me sick to see such arrogance. A little humility at this point would be nice. Don't shove it in my face! Many do in fact hate the Big 3. Recently it was stated in a public opinion poll that 54% of Americans wouldn't even consider going to a domestic dealer and checking out one of their vehicles. Go to any auto enthusiast forum and read the comments left by people that haven't even owned a domestic before. They hate because they were raised to hate by parents that drive Hondas because their 1975 Chevy was trash. To be accurate and fair, I don't believe American cars used to be the best designed cars (best designed not meaning highest quality either) in the world. I think that title ought to go to many of the German brands. More correctly our cars are what served our market, but in no way did that make them the best. Now America does hold the collective ideals of the auto close to our shores. I live in Dayton, birthplace of the auto battery and self starter, original home to Dayton Electric Company - Delco (later Delphi). We named a city after Charles Kettering here. GM used to employ 20,000 workers here. You either worked for GM or you worked for NCR. Now both are virtually gone. I would disagree but only in the context of time. Prior to WWII the engineering that came out of our auto industry lead the world. Just about every auto patent of any consequence came from the US. Not necessarily Detroit, but from the US. But that was in a time when the original founders were still in charge. Enthusiast engineers with a passion for their company and their cars. In the 50's don't forget that a lot of the innovations in aircraft came either directly or indirectly from auto sources. Most jet engine technology was developed(not invented but perfected) by subsidiaries of our auto makers. Don't shortchange them. Having said that my Dad was an Oldsmobile man. I grew up loving those old boats. Too bad, because by the time I was ready for one, the foreign invasion had started. Believe me my 1974 Porsche 911 suffered a lot of mechanical breakdowns, but I loved it because it was a spirited sports car that captured my imagination like a Corvette could not. And as I said before, the Big 3 have made mistakes. The first venture to Capitol Hill obviously didn't go so well. They should have had a better idea what to say, but in fairness they didn't even know. Things are an absolute mess and it's taking time to figure out what to do and where to go. But the media perception destroyed what little they accomplished. All the media saw was private jets (jet-pooling would have helped guys). I think there arrogance got the better of them. They thought that they could waltz in and demand money and congress would roll over. Dumb idea to do on national television. Hard to insult congress, but they really succeeded Mistakes were made, but what competitor hasn't made mistakes? Might not be as publicized, but those mistakes are there if you scratch past the surface. It is always easy to have 20/20 hindsight, but the current brand of CEO is more interested in buggering the numbers to make the stupid bonus objectives that board members set and this lead to exactly the type of problems we have in industry today. Eyes on the bucks and not the business. Incidental, Thanks for keeping this a discussion civil. It is great to debate without hurling invectives with abandon. As to your last comment about not meeting any one who worked at Citi - You have met them. Every time you go into a bank, you meet them. I worked as a broker for years and I know far more people who are in the financail industry than work in the auto industry. Not really supprising. Financail services of all kinds are very large.

That is my opinion and I have been watching this road show for years. Economics is a passion of mine as well as cars. I am disappointed at heck that this has all come to this.

Art to some degree I can agree with you but, I would call your attention to a remark by what I consider one of the great economists of the current era, Alan Greenspan. When he testified in front of congress he stated that his basic model for managing the economy was that "Corporate executives would manage to the best interest of the company and the stockholders." He acknowledged that this was not the case and lead to under supervision from the banking authorities. In essence, these people are too greedy to be left to their own devices. Although his comments are directed at the banking industry, I challenge you to show that the same does not apply to the CEO's of any major corporation. They are playing power games for their own self aggrandizement. Frankly they just don't care about the company(except how much can I grab before it goes under), the workers(except to bleed them to death if law will allow) and the stock holders(I got mine, let them get what they can.). It is a sad situation. Yes, the American public is generally exceptionally short sighted. They are far to influenced by marketing and their own self interest and short sighted as a bat. I again refer the the SUV in general but as much to all large V-8 powered vehicles. I drive the roads of southern California and am stunned by all the huge vehicles that run the roads with a single occupant. An incredible waste of resourced. Now I am no tree hugger by any means, but I have never owned a large American vehicle. The largest I ever owned was a '69 mustang with a 200/6. I was 19 and it was a prudent choice by my father. I didn't kill myself if it. I have owned a succession of sports cars and smaller foreign sedans since. I prefer nimble handling and reasonable acceleration , not gobs of power and wallowing weight. I drove my share of farm trucks. Hate the feeling of a vehicle heeling over in a corner. Heeling is for boats not cars. While on the subject of small sedans, why have the big three never been able to find this formula. The Ford F150 is the most popular vehicle sold in America. That aside, the next two are the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry. To say that the American public does not want smaller fuel efficient cars is to ignore the fact that they have been buying them in mass quantities for years. Analyze these two and you will find the failings for the Big Three. They have for some reason always equated small with cheap and the cars they built to compete come across that way. Honda and Toyota have spent a lot of money engineering these cars, making them nimble with a solid feel of safety. There has never been an American car that would compete well in this market. Not because Americans lack the engineering skills, but because corporate management was unwilling to invest in such a car with a lower profit margin but higher volume. Do you remember the Fremont California plant? Toyota and GM both produced cars there. Toyota the Corolla FX and GM the Prism. Lots of interchangeable parts. The GM cars were "tailored" to the GM buyer. They were a sales bust. The Corollas sold well. Same plant same parts. What gives?? Can't be legislation or the union. Heck, California is the worst state in the union when it comes to worker protection laws. I don't think GM has a feel for the American small car public. Never has. It is a large demographic. You can't blame the Japanese. The playing field is level with the plants in the US. American auto makers don't have the will to compete. As to your comment about the UAW backing the Big three. Well no kidding! It comes down to this. Bankruptcy means that they can void the contract and potentially break the union. UAW leadership has a conflict of interest. They need to keep the cash cow alive, so they can bleed it just enough so it continues to live. Sorry guys, I know how some of you feel about the union, but generally it is a love/hate relationship. Keep in mind the basic tenant of a union. For a fee they will act in your best interest so long as they can continue to receive their fee. Much of the Union higher ups are lawyers, and they act like it. They are not in the position to see what is best for both the company and the members, only the members. Bleed the company but keep it alive. Not a good situation, but one that has existed for a long time. Kind of a Arab/Israeli conflict of the corporate world. Don't get me started on Congress - I come from Duke Cunningham's old district. I am a veteran and I have never been so disappointed, insulted, offended and just down right hostile in my entire life. Enough said!

RE #17 Looks like a rat fight to me. There is no outside hired help worth what these turkeys are getting paid. No one!! The only CEO who is worth multi millions are the ones that founded their companies. They had the vision, drive and skill to create millions, they are entitled to it. Hired guns are not. #18 It is easy to blame Washington, but the car makers dug their own grave and the American people paved the way to the grave yard. I call to your attention the SUV. Big gas guzzling chrome plated buckets. But having said that, companies steer their own course just like individuals do. Blaming an outside source is like blaming the cop for pulling you over for speeding. You made the choice, you pay the price. The jerks that run the companies kept feeding SUV's because they provided the best profit. Money driven. We all know that oil is finite. It is running out. Maybe not now or 10 years from now, but in the near future, and what is left is getting harder to get to and thus more expensive. Not directing the company to produce more efficient, durable, and customer friendly cars lies directly on the manufactures. The sign posts have gone up about every 10 years starting in the 70's. I remember the gas lines in 74. I remember the price of gas going up in fits and starts. I remember American car quality falling in the trash heap. I remember looking at unattractive vehicles(Aztec). I remember hearing of exorbitant salaries and bonuses from failing companies. I remember Chrysler going to congress in the 70's. I remember the sweetheart deals for the UAW to not bring the automakers to a halt when the car makers were being strangled by poor production quality. In brief, don't blame the cops for the laws. Each company has a free will to direct itself in a direction. These companies choose their course. Blaming congress for not legislating them down the right path is a poor attempt to pass blame. Sorry, but that is the way it is. So far as I am concerned let the mangy dogs tear each other apart. Might be a bit harsh, but management deserves the scalding that the stockholders and employees can't give them. The down side is that the only ones that are really going to get hurt are the workers, dealers and the American public. Congress will go on and the CEO's will sit in their fat palaces and laugh at the fools who willingly gave them their money.

Well the stooges were back and I read an on line story that made a comment that made me sick. The CEO's of GM and Ford earned $22 and $18 million last year. Just exactly what the G*d D**n H**l did they do to deserve that kind of money while driving there companies to ruin!!!! Why should the little guy on the line pay the price for their exorbitant salaries. It is like they hit the lottery! I hate most CEO's and their cohorts who raid the company like that and stick it too the stock holders and the modest workers on who's back they are standing. They will work for $1 next year????? Are you kidding me?? They should work for the rest of their lives for free with that kind of income. I know last year wasn't the first year they were paid that much. I would bet that $1000 per car goes to executive bonuses. Sickening. Throw them in jail and let someone with a passion for cars run the company not someone with a passion for money! Sorry - it kind of turned in to a rant, but I couldn't help my self.

Here is a little story that came up several years ago. I think it is very appropriate at the moment. It is a bit long, I am sure most of you will enjoy it. A Japanese company (Toyota ) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile. The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The next year the Japanese won by two miles. Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India . Sadly, The End. Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results: TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads. IF THIS WASN'T SO SAD IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

Brass takes paint very well. I would use the alclad system. Alternative would be BMF. It would be very easy to clean up a foil application.

This is exactly why I keep goofy little kits around for a quick build. I finish a simple and quick kit and I feel good about the whole thing. The more complex the build the more little kits that get done. Reminds me of what fun feels like. Pete

David - After seeing yours, I can't wait to start on mine. Got my kit about 2 weeks ago and the hub/brake detail is incredible. Great start. Can't wait to see the finished job. Pete

Why would you want one in a can? Other rooms are much more spacious and comfortable.

$1.99 for regular - $2.20 for the good stuff here in San Diego - Turbo gets really unhappy without it. Pings it's little head off.

Art - I grew up on a farm in western Nebraska and drove farm trucks form the 40's and 50's as well as a CJ-2a agroJeep. None of these vehicles has a synchro trani. I became very skilled at double clutching to find the right gear. Believe me, every time my 93 MR2 clicks into gear I appreciate it. Incidental, the MR2 reverse does not have a synchro! Deleted as a weight savings. Some would consider it primitive for that, but this particular model is all about weight savings. Total car tips the scale at just over 2600 lbs. With the exception of the sound system, if it don't make it go faster it doesn't have it. No cup holders!!

Thank you! Makes it nicer for all.