Dave G.
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Posts posted by Dave G.
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5 hours ago, Bainford said:
Very interesting, Dave. For times when I need a proper model cement I use Tamiya extra-thin or Model Master black bottle, as appropriate for the job, and have been hoarding my last bottle of the MM. I wouldn't be surprised if the MM and the Testors is the same stuff. If I see one, I'll check it out.
Ya, I actually saw it at Amazon, Trevor. As I mentioned, if it's the same as MM, then my favorite glue for general plastic model assembly, lives on !!
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Briefly, on another note: I found out that Testors black bottle glue is available. Anyone know if it's the same glue that used to be Model Master black bottle ( my favorite for that slighted melted welded bond) ? If it is, then black bottle continues for me as my main build glue, though I have others for various purposes.
Orange tube, is not the glue I recall as a kid in the late 1950's and early 60's. But then again , I may have had Pactra back then. Oh well, time moves on, I marvel that I can recall anything from back then, but some thing are clearer than stuff I did yesterday.
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7 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:
I always have a bottle on the bench. It works fine for plastic to plastic (styrene). It's a little slow. I like to speed it up a tad by mixing it with Weld-on 4, but, it's fine, by itself.
A little slow is good for me, so I can get in my 6 attempts to get something to where I perceive it as straight lol. Slowish allows for wiggle room factor. It's not just my 74 years, it's always been if something grabs instantly a seam line will be off or whatever else. Double astigmatisms don't help.
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I can also reference oil painting on this. You can have an acrylic base and oil paint over that. In fact it's common to acrylic gesso a canvas to prep it for oil painting. But not the other way around. As much as you think the oil has cured enough, then apply acrylic, it will backfire on you. Everything from wrinkling, to cracking to peeling right off. You might witness this happening tomorrow or next year, but it will happen.
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I'm not a fan of acrylic over lacquer if that's what we are talking about here. Not even within Tamiya's own line. I've tested it. Where acrylic and lacquer meet or have been layered so to speak, down the road a piece it cracked. And it cracked deep, right down to the base substance, in this case, plastic. It looked great going on, but give it 6 months and look again.
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Also, I've used several brands super glue. But for thin supergule I've found Zap to really work well. And I like the Gorilla gel super glue for some things. These besides what I already said in my other post.
For clear parts, I like the Testors clear parts glue.
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I don't have one favorite glue, I use various glues for different reasons. But the glue I like that probably cant be found any longer, for permanent assembly of the main parts, is/was Model Master black bottle. Or if there will be some form of stress, like door hinges, I like the black bottle glue. When mine runs out, not sure what I'll use then. The Testors orange tube isn't bad but not as strong as the black bottle. If you think you might want to pop the model apart, just tack glue together with the orange tube.
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On 6/26/2024 at 11:21 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:
I won't disagree with much that you said, but I will disagree with this statement.
I routinely do quite well in the few shows that I attend, and I'm not using 2K.
As a matter of fact, a good number of those that I know that produce some of the best models that I've ever seen, do not use 2K either.
Shine on a model may be a high requirement to do well at a show, but there are a number of ways to reach that goal that don't require the use of 2K clear, and that has been the case for many years.
Likewise, I don't believe that most GOOD judges are not aware of the intricacies of what constitutes a good or "realistic" paint job.
They are just as knowledgeable, if not more so, of what a paint job should look like for a particular subject as we are, and as has become evident by a number of opinions just in this thread alone, there are a lot of people who feel that there absolutely can be such thing as too shiny when it comes to model cars, and that could very well include a good number of judges.
Just like anything else, 2K is not necessarily the "silver bullet" when it comes to paint.
It might be an option for some, but it's use alone is not necessarily going to bring home any more hardware than a good enamel paint finish, or a nicely executed polished lacquer paint job.
Steve
I should tread softly here, as many of you in the forums are still active in contests and shows. I have not been active in that for decades. Thus my statements you quoted from should have been less outright. Also, and I debated it, concerning 2k, I should have said something like, many modelers feel it's required to win. Rather than give the impression that it really takes 2K to win. My mistake !
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Those organic cartridges go active as soon as you open the sealed package. If you just leave them out in the air they won't last very long. So you need to get them sealed back up after each use. It's mostly the mask framework that holds the cartridges that gets condensation and as mentioned, it needs to be dry before bagging up.
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25 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:
This is an excellent point.
Even the best mask out there won't seal against beard stubble, much less a full beard.
A full air-supplied hood is your best option if your face is hairy.
Thats something I was thinking of addressing in the the thread on 2K I was responding to yesterday. One thing nice about the hoods is you can have a beard.
For organic type paints like enamels and lacquers they do have the hoods with a carbon filter pack in your back. But for 2K and catalyzed paints in general, I still like the idea of separate air supply, especially in 1/1. These give positive pressure in the hood. Nothing is getting in, and it's automatic eye protection.
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1 hour ago, Nicholas said:
thanks for the responses so far, aside from the carcinogenic qualities, it seems that every show i go to the cars are so shiny its crazy!,i use mcw enamels, and the shine right out of the bottle when mixed with mr hobby slow dry lacquer thinner is just great in my opinion looks more on the line of a factory 70's muscle car,...as it should because it's actually auto paint!.. but i was wondering the flip side of using a 2 k clear, but the health reasons are scaring me
Paint jobs have traditionally been about 80% of winning model car contests. But not because they are scale or true to the era of car. Gloss and polish wins the day. So it's gotten to where it takes 2K to win unless it's some patina category at a local show.
In my day, to win took candy color over metallic silver or gold. And strangely, upholstered interior in felt or corduroy. Oh and some semblance of spark plug wires. So I now don't do shows. Who cares ? Nobody. But I build em how I want them to look.
By the way, you could easily find flaws in a 1/1 show room stock paint job, even body panels in the 1960's and 70's. But don't try to enter that look in a model show unless you want to place last. Yet it might be most authentic. Most of the muscle cars with awesome shines back then were owner induced, through polishing and waxing, polishing and waxin faithfully. They didn't come off the lot that way, especially GM metallic colors in the late 60's. Least not the best I can recall.
I also might add, there was no 2K then !
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8 hours ago, Pierre_tec said:
Well maybe I’m the first to admit that I’m a sucker for 2k clear, but taking the safety issues of course. Although I dont use it as much as the body shops do, maybe 2-3 time a month, I try to always use it with a respirator and nitrile gloves.
My choice, Basf Rm5335, two coats and done. I paint mostly at night and since is a tropical island, humidity is always present. I can’t find Testors one coat lacquer locally. Also try AutoZone Upol high gloss clear, what a waste of money!
One of the easiest entry points for the type isocyanates in the 2k mix, to your body is through your eyes. This is not just while spraying but also during the curing process. If you still get a pre cured odor off the finish, it can get to you.. In 1/1, when we shot catalyzed paints we followed seminar class recommendations, to use a positive pressure head piece, with a fresh air source separate from the spray room.. This was basically a plastic head piece with open window in the front to see clearly through. The air escaping the hood went out through that eye opening, keeping paint and fumes out. While also wearing a mask, it was optional. In that you breathed the fresh air coming into the hood, nothing from the paint room. The mask was there in case of an error in the system..
What do I mean by " get to you" ? Well, the issue isn't just residual damage and the product gets expelled in time. This stuff gets into you and continues catalyzing, embedding into your body tissue cured. Literally it becomes part of you. Your body can not expel it like lacquer or enamel.
Of course you can do as you wish. But something that requires that kind of treatment to be fully safe is not entering my house. And I have a wife and pet to consider as well. Not to mention it would not be customary to clear coat the classic cars I tend to build anyway. You can see yourself in my enamel paint jobs and it's natural looking. LP lacquer being another good option, though I don't know about in high humidity.
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47 minutes ago, Bainford said:
As has been suggested, the potential health issues are reason enough to not use the stuff. But beyond that, personally I think it just doesn't look good. To each his own, this is very much 'eye-of-the-beholder' stuff and I won't knock what others prefer to use, but for my money it does not provide a pleasing look when striving for realism. That's just my view, of course, but I think the incredible shine is anti-realism. With so many great looking, user-friendly clears on the market, I struggle to understand why 2K is so popular in our hobby.
I have to agree. And actually in many of my build, since they are old classics and antique era build, I'd rather not use clear at all. Enamels when done right and LP lacquers are pretty dangs good right out of the airbrush. Maybe just a little buff up when the time is right. Most of those cars were not metallic . It's just when I get into hot rods and then I'm going to use a clear color or candy over a base color. I have 0 need for 2K. Thus my first reply.
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4 hours ago, bluenote said:
For me, I'll never use 2k clear for a building model cars, it seems way too toxic for a hobby. I always just use good ol Tamiya Clear in the rattle can.
But, can anyone clarify the positive of 2k Clear? is it ease of use or is the result any better than hobby clears?
Not to hijack the thread, so I will contribute to the OP's question and say that i've heard good things about Scalefinishes 2k clear.
Automotive 2K belongs in a professional 1/1 paint situation. At that, with proper training and handling, setup in the shop and personal protective gear. I quit 35 year of 1/1 refinishing after all the seminars and warnings on the use of catalyzed systems. Or so called two part paints. I'm not about to bring it into my house, risk my own health, wife and pets as well. Nope not me.
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To me, 2K in modeling ? 0
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Ya really, the Pledge is gone too. Thats ok, mine has a slight yellowing to it in the bottle anyway, it's 7-8 yo.
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To me that's not a lot of blower, think shorter distance, free flowing runs. Many portable booths, not much larger than that, use dual blowers. Just FWIW. I'm not saying not to use it but just to use it sensibly. Some folks add a squirrel cage blower to the venting, especially for longer vertical runs up to basement casement windows.
I think we would need to know more about your setup to advise any further than that. Any more suggestions are shots in the dark hoping you can apply what is stated. Installation specifics help. Is the venting level or a big rise above the booth, or drop for that matter ?
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Also zoom in a little bit and stand back. This minimizes distortion from the wide angle lenses used in cell phone digital cameras. Get down on a level plain with the model. Shut off the flash and use available light from the direction you want lit most. Cell phone photos are great these days but you still give yourself great advantage to follow some basic composition rules, just as if using a big camera.
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7 hours ago, Milo said:
everyone says skim milk, and nobody has ever even seen skim milk other than at the hotel breakfasts
Hah, low fat milk is close enough, heck even whole milk will get you there, heavy cream too much ! Now I'm the kind of nut who actually likes to experiment. Having constantly heard of the skim milk thing forever, I once took low fat milk and put some in a mixing cup. Swirled it around, son of a gun if it didn't leave a little film behind as I swirled it. Best of all I saw how is sloshed in the cup, got a feel for it's viscosity. Next ? You guessed it, I put it in an airbrush, it sprayed perfectly at just about any pressure setting. And just cleaned up with plain old water. With that test satisfied, I know what low fat milk looks like and behaves like. LOL. But you're right, I'm not sure in my 74 years on earth if I've ever encountered skim milk other than seeing the label on cartons of milk. I told you about the run back test on the side of the mixing cup. Viscosity cups, others drip tests off the mixing stick. I think you get it.
So, paint ratio or viscosity may not be your issue at all. You need to spray in the cooler hours of summer or slow that drying down. Unfortunately " cooler hours" can also bring in humidity in the form of dew point, the lacquer painters worst nightmare, warm temps high humidity. And now rather than the dry dusty surface, you get fogging or so called blushing.. My personal answer for airbrushing in your summer climate would be to use enamel products, which are less prone to these things. Course you could always move inside to where there is AC I assume, it's not like your painting a 1/1 1960 Cadillac or something ! I shoot my LP lacquers into a trash can inside. The smell isn't much and it's gone in ten minutes anyway. I do that in the winter because it's too cold out and in the summer because it's too warm and humid outside. Now enamels I get out of the house or use the booth. But even then I'm right back in with the fresh paint job and into the paint dryer/dehydrator.
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1 hour ago, Skip said:
If I remember right from inspecting paint for a really big used to be Seattle based Aircraft Manufacturer; the Cup you are talking about is called a Zahnn Cup. Sets in a heavy wire rack with another catcher cup below it. Dump a measured amount of the thinned paint into the top cup then time how many seconds it took to empty the top cup. Next there is a formula for the Temperature and Humidity factors and that gives the Viscosity of the paint. Didn't have to use this on most of the Commercial aircraft but had to do it on every Military variant. The painters all used the stick, the inspectors were forced to use the Zahnn cup and compute the viscosity...
No one else has commented, but you said that your air temperature is around 90 deg F. that's pretty warm to be shooting paint, could be that you are having flash off occurring in the air before it hits the painted surface as dust. You might look into a high temperature reducer (thinner) to somewhat counteract this. Humidity at 90 deg shouldn't be an issue, in Texas it's probably next to zero hot & dry! What about painting in the morning when the dewpoint is a little higher for at least a few percent humidity and the air temperature is lower to help you with the flashing issue. It's worth a try, and you might not even have to mess around with switching reducer. You also might be picking up some dust out of the air as well, if you can cover the painted model with a stainless-steel bowl, plastic bowl... to guard against the dust you might help that issue. Being that painting is a process you can check off one step at a time to isolate the source of the issue until it's found.
That system sounds a bit up scale from what we used, but same principle.
As to the 90f temps, I agree. But I'm not the OP trying to spray in that situation.
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Lighting and composition is more key than the camera itself. IE, technique. Modern cell phones will blow away some cameras in terms of detail. And your editing features are on board the phone. It's all about how you use your tool lol.
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2 hours ago, TarheelRick said:
The Wal-Mart/Lowes/Home Depot thinners work fairly well with most paints. To add to David's comments, when you remove the stir stick from the paint you can count the drops of paint and time them as the fall from the stir stick. Of course the quicker they fall the thinner the paint will be. I seem to remember reading somewhere you should get a drop a second, but don't quote me on that. Maybe someone else will chime in that has used this method.
You reminded me of my days learning to refinish 1/1 cars and trucks. I was taught to thin the paint by use of a viscosity cup. A viscosity cup is basically a very precise small funnel shaped device. You dipped it into the mixed paint and in X amount of time it should have emptied out the metered stem.. Eventually you just know what the right flow rate is without the cup and just letting the paint run off your mixing stick. It's how I learned though, my products and viscosity cup being Dupont. This was supplied through the Dupont automotive paint dealer I used at the time. Those were fun and rewarding days !
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11 hours ago, Milo said:
I haven’t gotten the hang of thinning yet… could it be too thin or too thick?
Plus, I live in central texas and I work in the garage, it’s consistently mid 90 F
A good way to mix your paints is not so much by ratio, though I know everyone wants to hear about ratios . Rather, put some primer in a mixing cup. Add the thinner and mix, stir it with a mixing stick. Add a bit at a time till when you take the stick and wipe some of the mixed paint up the side of the cup, it returns back down the side of the cup in 2-3 or 4 seconds or so but leaves a film behind. If you find yourself waiting 10 seconds or more and wonder if it's going to ever get back down to the pool below, then obviously it's too thick. If it returns in a second but leaves no film as it returns, then it's too thin. Adjust accordingly.
Your paints in your Your climate would do well using a slower thinner in your paints. Try something like Mr Leveling thinner in your primer, it has a touch of retarder that aids initial flow out of the paint on the surface before flashing.. At one time actually Tamiya had a slower thinner as well, not sure they still do.
Try what I'm saying, let us know how it goes. In no time you will have a feel for this with lacquer primer. This is much easier to do than to explain or for that matter, to read.
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47 minutes ago, bluestringer said:
I use the Testor's enamels from time to time. I take the bottle and dump it into a 1oz. paint bottle. I then fill the Testor's bottle with cheap lacquer thinner and shake it up really well. Then dump that into the 1oz bottle with the paint. Shake it well. It sprays great like that, and usually does not require any clear as it comes out nice a shiny.
That would be correct for most of their color range. I do something similar. But I've seen that metallic burgundy color thinned 1-1, suffice it to say that I personally would want it just a bit thicker. That's also why I suggested a bit more air pressure.
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What’s your favorite glue or adhesive?
in Model Building Questions and Answers
Posted
Any of the no tox stuff is kind of like that, got no wompum ! But back in the 1960's when I first ran into Pactra, I doubt there was non tox. Or I didn't know about it.