Dave G.
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Posts posted by Dave G.
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The black that always seemed to nail it in automotive finishes for me was good old Model Master Classic Black enamel. Course no longer made. Tamiya LP or acrylic are both more stark. There are craft paints that are close and artist acrylic Mars Black is fairly close. They of course need clear coating. It's just to me Classic Black fit all or most of my gloss black needs.
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55 minutes ago, customline said:
I think that I will try my big compressor. It's oil-less but its close to 40 years old (it's a "Black Max" from Price Club) I can probably squeeze a few more years out of it with this sort of use. I'll just need a regulator at the booth. Hopefully, I can regulate down at the compressor to the inlet pressure of the bench unit. Spray gunner has an Iwata regulator with moisture separator but it's 80 bucks. I may try a "Master" brand from Amazon since they all look like they came from the same factory anyway. For an airbrush, I decided on an Iwata Eclipse HC-CS (after much research) and maybe I'll get a break on Prime day or maybe Black Friday. Thanks for your input, Dave ( and everyone else, too! )
If you can get the compressor regulator output to 50 or 55 psi you should be fine. If not you could always add a secondary regulator that will. Most airbrush regulators should handle at least that 50psi or so on the input side. I can get my 8 gal noisy 125 psi compressor down to 0 if I want to, I output 25psi a lot though.
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On 9/27/2023 at 2:24 PM, customline said:
Is there a brand or some identification on yours that I can look for? Thanks for your input, Dave.
Hah, I went to where I purchased mine and it's listed unavailable. But you could go to Point Zero's own site and see there what they have as well as suppliers. And that includes compressors. I do trust the name.
Now that said, at Amazon Paasche lists a regulator for not too bad a price. If you're gonna pipe in from a big compressor you want a regulator rated for 135 psi on the incoming side. Amazon has those as well. So does TCP Global, as they handle both airbrush air handling and bigger or more powerful compressor air management.
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If you want to start getting into color matching 1/1, it's time for you to get serious about a decent airbrush and air source for it. Then you can get Splash or Scale Finishes, MCW, or a local auto jobber to mix exact match paints for you ( Many Napa Stores mix small quantity touch up paints for instance) .
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Point Zero has a good regulator/water separator that you can mount near your work area and run compressor air to that, regulate. Then run your airbrush line from the regulator. This works great because it traps more moisture the further the separator is from the compressor. It gives the water cooling time to separate out of the air and be caught at the regulator.. I think that regulator is around $12-$14 at Amazon and comes with a bag full of adapter fittings.. The one I have is very well made but it's a few years old, I'm assuming they are still made as well.
My compressor is an 8 gal portable on wheels, so not an airbrush compressor at all. It generates 135 psi and 4.5 cfm air flow. I don't just have airbrushes but also LVLP spray guns, as well as nail guns.
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Yep, I agree, lacquer thinner for spraying, mineral spirits for brush painting. Just be sure you get the real lacquer thinner and not the newer so called " green friendly" stuff.
Another blend that works well for spraying is to mix mineral spirits and hardware store paint thinner together 50/50, then thin your enamel with that blend. LT is easier and seems to be that just right product in one can without any fuss.. I've always mixed enamel for spraying 3-2 paint to thinner. So slightly less thinner than 50/50.
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You mentioned Vallejo primer, what will the color coat and top coat paints be ? As to the primer though, not my first choice but since you have it, lightly scuff with micro mesh or similar. Wash the body or wipe down at least, with mineral spirits or similar to get finger prints and other oils off the surface. Blow the body off with just air from your airbrush and apply a coat or two of the primer. Set it aside someplace and dry for 24 hours before proceeding further. Or if you have a dehydrator or paint dryer use that for an hour or two.
Note the primer will feel dry to the touch sooner than 24 hours but Vallejo's standard is 24 hours dry time. It may feel dry sooner but hasn't cured through all the way yet. Also fwiw Vallejo paints take well to heat setting.
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46 minutes ago, bh1701 said:
Thanks - I bought some today, but it was the Medium. I will return it and look for a source for the Liquid Retarder!
Bart
Sorry about that, I wish I had mentioned it earlier. But Micheals stores used to carry both, it's a matter of being in stock or not. Dick Blick art supply has it or lists it too.
But ya know I've never tried the retarder medium for air brushing. Where I put the retarder in the thinner in small amounts, it might actually work. I have the medium for brush painting ( My wife and I do art work too), I'll mix up a batch to satisfy my own curiosity and try it, then pass that info on in the future. It's actually designed for brushing and pouring paints at up to 40% and not break down the paints medium. The Slow Dri liquid is up to 25% and is clear in color but it won't stretch the paint medium like the retarder medium will. None of that matters at a few drops in the thinner, enough to stop tip dry.
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By the way, the Liquitex retarder I mentioned is their Slow Dry Retarder Fluid, not their retarder medium. The medium is not for airbrushing.
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17 hours ago, bh1701 said:
What are your suggestions on how to apply and flash each coat?
Bart
As you know you need a really smooth primer coat, that's a must.
You first color coat is just a really fine mist coat over the primer. Very little paint flow from your airbrush, you just see a hint of color on the model yet wet. Flash that off dry, you can use straight air or a bit of heat from a hair dryer. The second coat will be medium, you will find it to take to that first layer well. Flash that off. Now you can put down a wet coat with more paint flow and flash that. See what you think, that might do it or you may need one more coat.
Each coat should level right off egg shell smooth once flashed ( dry). DecoArt is the most difficult to not have fuzzy or textured finish with, especially the Americana line. At least in my experience. You may need more flow aid with it, and I find it to balk at alcohol to which of coarse washer fluid has in it. Something no longer made that worked pretty well in DecoArt Americana besides what I've spoken of above, was Testors Aztek thinner, still adding a bit of flow aid and retarder. DecoArt is not my favorite paint to airbrush but they have some great colors, so I make it work. Really good for old car interiors and I build mostly old classic cars.
Flow aid and retarder make a huge difference as can the 4030. You're less locked into exact distances and speed of each pass. You can mist coat and it will still flow out. Best I can tell you !
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The only way I use Rustoleum on models is decanted 2X products and not their primer. Once decanted I add some lacquer thinner and airbrush it over a primer sealer. Stynylrez is a poly acrylic primer sealer, the airbrushed Rustleum does not penetrate it and get to the plastic. The finish to me is second to non, sometimes by my eyes it doesn't need polishing. And since I cure it in a dehydrator then dry times are fully acceptable ( hours vs days).
But honestly these days I use more acrylics. I agree that Rustoleum is too thick if sprayed out of the can. Lets face it, it's made for lawn furniture not models.
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16 hours ago, bh1701 said:
What thinners would you recommend?
Bart
I just answered a similar posting in another forum, so this is a copy paste of my reply there. It will be in the general ball park:
I make 3 different blends of thinner, non are rocket science lol.. Also for Tamiya acrylic I use lacquer thinner.
The first blend works in many acrylics actually and quite well, including many craft paints and in the Model Master Acryl. Acryl also works with the last mix I will explain.
In 3oz batches.
60% distilled water
40% 91 Isopropyl
6-8 drops of Liquitex retarder ( depends on season and if it's ultra dry I've used 10. But this all kills tip dry to where basically it's a non issue).
Trace amount of dish soap ( it's not even a full drop).
Many paints will spray very nicely with this. They go down nice and flash off fairly quickly per coat.
The next is similar except I use the Liquitex flow aid in it. And the alcohol portion of the mix is a combo of Isopropyl and denatured alcohol. This tends to flow out more and I heat set each coat with a hair dryer. More ISO than denatured. This I use in place of Createx 4011 reducer and it works as well if not better than 4011. It works in most craft paints as well, especially if you first add Createx 4030 to the paint you will mix. 4030 should be used in Createx as well. 4030 is a poly intercoat,it makes acrylic paints poly/acrylic and they dry harder with more adhesion. I have many craft paints working as well as some model paints, not to mention medium or soft body artist acrylics.
Artist acrylics either get my first blend ( Artist Loft takes to this very well) or I have another for any paint that doesn't like alcohol. It's 50/50 water to Liquitex airbrush medium or you can use the US Art Supply Airbrush thinner, which is very much like the medium, in place of the medium. Still add retarder and flow aid. This method retains the most acrylic base in the paints. But if you go with more medium than water it starts to increase gloss.
I just keep 3 bottles mixed up all the time. One each. I still have some 4011 but rarely use it, since the thinner is cheap to make once you have the products and it works as well. In fact when it's gone I'll just refill that with the two blended alcohols thinner I make up
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Yes you can get it to level out nice and smooth but not using what you are as thinner, and certainly not that alone. Oh it might work on a brand or two of craft paint. Additionally, I've found DecoArt to need a different blend of thinner than most of the rest of the craft paints. Some of those DecoArt paints are not friends with alcohol, you need to go another route with them.
Also it matters how you apply and flash off each coat. But indeed you can get a really nice base color coat to apply clear over. So your question is, Can You? My answer is yes I can.
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Rustoleum primer is enamel based. Finding that out after one quick shot from the can I bought, I returned it, as I had asked before purchase for lacquer primer.
As far as the paint, I used both 2x and the standard white can Rustoleum on lawn furniture this summer. The 2x dries much faster than the old formula stuff. Even out in the sunny back yard.
If you have no booth with extractor it would be kind of nutty to try and spray enamel inside your dwelling place. My opinion.
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Just for the record, propellant cans are 100% full of gas. Spray cans are roughly 2/3 paint mix with thinner and such and about 1/3 gas to pressurize it with.
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I use an 8gal 4.5 cfm 135psi portable compressor for various things to include my airbrushing. But that doesn't mean it's for everyone. Some folks simply want reasonably quiet air for airbrushing.
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12 hours ago, Milo said:
what is the tank for on the compressor?
Your spray pattern can pulsate without a tank and your pressure also can dropout to below your regulated setting.. The tank holds some reserve air so the airbrush doesn't starve for air on longer passes. With that said Paasche themselves sells the H with a tankless compressor but it's designed for the required flow. They also sell a tank style compressor as well. I doubt you want to pay the name brand cost though.
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Nice job on that build !
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The metal color line is just that, designed to simulate various metals. In this case basically aluminum plate. The model air line is more paint like, as mentioned it's likely more metallic. I seriously doubt they will match. You'll have a hard enough time getting a second bottle of model air to match, metallics are difficult like that.
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19 hours ago, Milo said:
I was planning on getting a paasche h... once the funds make themselves present.
$58 at Amazon. Then you need the compressor. The H at times can get a little thirsty for air so I'd get the compressor with a tank on it. This set has just the #3 tip which is the standard tip and no side mount color cup. But what it does have is the 1/8 fitting you need to mount to that compressor. And you can do pretty much everything with this anyway for model cars. Course there are other sets for a bit more money. And any of those accessory tips or the cup are available separately.
Just pointing this out is all, if nothing else you have a good view of the adapter fitting lol. There are about 6 different ways you could go to get yourself into an H.
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6 hours ago, Milo said:
can you link me a decent air compressor and regulator?
There are any number of decent compressors even at Amazon, Point Zero is a decent brand. But meanwhile you can put your compressed cans of gas in warm water so as not to ice up. It may not be ideal but it will be more consistent..
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7 hours ago, Milo said:
Would it change opinions if I said I didn't use any primer?
A good primer coat is always a good idea for any number of reasons. But Testors enamels goes down on plastic smooth and sticks well if the plastic is prepped at all. Also, Testors will look better on bare plastic than if shot onto a lousy primer job. The key here is not to do that.
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That finish to me looks like you needed more thinner or it was fast dry thinner.. And personally for Testors enamel I use hardware store lacquer thinner to thin it with. It's almost fool proof as long as it went on reasonably wet.
Testors never bottled their enamel in 1oz size bottles. If it's the little square bottles then they are 1/4oz. Take a look and confirm because in 1oz I don't know what you have there.
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For two decades I built models using an X-acto with two style blades but mostly the angle blade. A razor saw, a pin vise. Some common pins and paint brushes. Testors and Pactra paint both bottles and spray. Some steel wool. And a pair of scissors. In that second decade came the airbrush. By the end of all that a Dremel that to this very day I barely used and now doesn't work.
You can spend a lifetime finding the theoretical best tweezers lol. But I got mine given to me by my surgeon after a neck surgery. Very pointed but with serrated grips on them. Awesome !
Splash paints
in Model Building Questions and Answers
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Just do a test piece, it should go fine though. Just don't risk it on your model is all, without testing.
As for me, when I use enamel the appeal is a very nice natural high gloss finish right from the airbrush for use on old classic cars ( Like 1900's to 1950's, built stock. They weren't clear coated in real, neither are mine. I have other options today if I want a base color coat/clear coated finish for a custom or hot rod etc, be it acrylic or flat lacquer base coat.
Even some lacquers I polish up without clear. Brand new Model A Fords had the fenders painted off site in lacquer and the bodies done on site in enamel . They weren't clear coated.