Dave G.
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Posts posted by Dave G.
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Createx is a system paint. Buy their additives. You should include the 4030 clear intercoat. A small amount added to the paint gives a harder shell finish, converting the colors to poly acrylic. Their part number 4011 is now the correct thinner, try to skip the 4012 because it won't play with 4030 intercoat well.
Honestly, it's a great paint If You Use Their System.
I found out the basic formula to make what is close enough to 4011 thinner by looking up the msds, to work as well as 4011 does. But I had all the ingredients here. Or close enough anyway.
By the way, 4030 intercoat and 4011 thinner is a good combo to use in many craft paints !!
Edit: And finally, yes you should use primer. I use Stynylrez under Createx on plastic models. I see no reason why Mr Surfacer wouldn't work as well.
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Try lacquer thinner. If you go to the Tamiya site, you will find suggested thinning methods/products. Lacquer thinner is listed for the purpose of a harder finish.
That said, while I've used regular lacquer thinner, I prefer Mr Leveling Thinner for it's leveling feature.
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I don't recall total engine color but seem to recall reddish valve covers. However, to my knowledge tri power was not a factory thing on a truck in 1960. Most were aftermarket conversions, with something like a Wieand manifold and three Stromberg two barrel carbs. Then three dome shaped chromed air cleaners on top. It was simply the thing to do back then. But in that process, the engine might become any color. I know I guy who converted his 60 Ford panel truck from 6 cyl to a 292 V8. He did the three carb thing and painted the engine yellow. He followed the pattern of two or three different Model A and 32 Ford hot rods we encountered growing up, where they too all had the engines painted yellow.
I'm not saying to paint your engine yellow ! Just, once conversions start happening, and maybe a small upgraded camshaft etc. Probably about any color to to tick the owners dreams might be applied.
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Basically wrap the cars in paper shop towels ( tis can be bought at Lowes and is actually not paper but rag material, though tearable) or cotton linen. Then you can use foam or whatever you want from there. Bubble wrap perhaps. But you have that protective rag layer between the paint and cushion material.
I tend to plastic bag mine, kitchen bags, 1 gal freezer bags etc., give an extra layer. And I don't use much clear coat, certainly not 2K,
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I knock off any easy flashing with parts on the tree. Then prime everything. The body is a separate issue or pieces that very obviously need more work than can be done on the tree, I don't prime bodies while on the tree. But I want everything primed for a couple of reasons. The first, is it gives realism to the shape of the parts and takes away the plastic glow or semi opaque look. The other is I can get a better view of what more work may need to be done to each part.
From there, Some pieces may get color coat on the trees, minus the body as already mentioned. But I also do some sub assembly work before color paint as well.
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7 hours ago, ksnow said:
Thank you, Dave. Good point on the 1 oz unthinned versus 2 oz thinned. I have a 2 oz bottle coming, so that should be good for a couple quick spoon tests and the body.
Yes, you should be fine, Kyle.
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1 oz of pre mixed lacquer is not a lot of paint, especially if you need room for fudge factor. 2 oz leaves a lot of cushion for error. 1 oz of uncut paint is more than enough, even in 1/16 scale.
I did a 1/16 Model A, body only in MCW Washington Blue. This was a roadster and the fenders were already done in black. So real estate wise, not so different from a full bodied 60's era car in 1/24. I just made it . One or two areas had sand scratch swelling, which wasn't too bad and I just scuffed out with 3200. I re dusted those areas, blending into the rest ( the wonders of lacquer allow for that). And all was well. I brushed in door jams and such but the paint really is too thin for brushing. And that pretty well did in the 1oz bottle of paint. I might have an 1/8th of the jar left. I got enough paint on the body to make it blue, clear coat is the gloss.
Now the fenders I did in Tamiya acrylic and just buffed the color itself up. No clear coat needed, no scuff sanding, just a quick buff up. LP lacquer wasn't out yet, today I'd use that for the black fenders.
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I'm assuming you mean the varnishes. If you add it to the paints, you can extend the volume a bit. Too much starts to make the paints more transparent, that could be good or bad depending on your purpose. In most acrylic lines that have gloss or for that matter matt mediums and varnishes 5-20% added to paint can extend them and sometimes/often/usually improve leveling. Paints like Createx have clear intercoats, which also converts the acrylic paint to poly-acrylic. This makes the surface much harder and more scratch resistant,
There are modelers who mix certain amounts of Vallejo clear into the colors but I'm not one. In acrylic paints, I tend to use the Createx 4030 up to 25%. Best I can say for now. I also have added Liquitex clear varnish into various acrylic colors. Also US ART supply acrylic thinner has acrylic medium in it, add enough and it improves gloss, which is great as long as you didn't want flat, lol !
Others will probably offer their take on your question, my way isn't the only way.
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I guess that's why nobody makes a 1956 Buick hardtop, or better yet a 38 Buick sedan. Nobody ever did it before. Those cars have been missing since I first started modeling cars around 1958. So Moebius comes out with a 55 and 56 Chrysler. I emailed them once about a Buick, no reply.
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3 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:
NoTox came around in about '73-'75. It was horrible!
To my knowledge, it still is ! Suffice it to say that I don't buy it in any product, if the good stuff is available..
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On 7/6/2024 at 1:42 AM, Straightliner59 said:
Pactra No-Tox! Smelled like lemons, worked like--you get the idea!
Any of the no tox stuff is kind of like that, got no wompum ! But back in the 1960's when I first ran into Pactra, I doubt there was non tox. Or I didn't know about it.
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5 hours ago, Bainford said:
Very interesting, Dave. For times when I need a proper model cement I use Tamiya extra-thin or Model Master black bottle, as appropriate for the job, and have been hoarding my last bottle of the MM. I wouldn't be surprised if the MM and the Testors is the same stuff. If I see one, I'll check it out.
Ya, I actually saw it at Amazon, Trevor. As I mentioned, if it's the same as MM, then my favorite glue for general plastic model assembly, lives on !!
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Briefly, on another note: I found out that Testors black bottle glue is available. Anyone know if it's the same glue that used to be Model Master black bottle ( my favorite for that slighted melted welded bond) ? If it is, then black bottle continues for me as my main build glue, though I have others for various purposes.
Orange tube, is not the glue I recall as a kid in the late 1950's and early 60's. But then again , I may have had Pactra back then. Oh well, time moves on, I marvel that I can recall anything from back then, but some thing are clearer than stuff I did yesterday.
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7 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:
I always have a bottle on the bench. It works fine for plastic to plastic (styrene). It's a little slow. I like to speed it up a tad by mixing it with Weld-on 4, but, it's fine, by itself.
A little slow is good for me, so I can get in my 6 attempts to get something to where I perceive it as straight lol. Slowish allows for wiggle room factor. It's not just my 74 years, it's always been if something grabs instantly a seam line will be off or whatever else. Double astigmatisms don't help.
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I can also reference oil painting on this. You can have an acrylic base and oil paint over that. In fact it's common to acrylic gesso a canvas to prep it for oil painting. But not the other way around. As much as you think the oil has cured enough, then apply acrylic, it will backfire on you. Everything from wrinkling, to cracking to peeling right off. You might witness this happening tomorrow or next year, but it will happen.
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I'm not a fan of acrylic over lacquer if that's what we are talking about here. Not even within Tamiya's own line. I've tested it. Where acrylic and lacquer meet or have been layered so to speak, down the road a piece it cracked. And it cracked deep, right down to the base substance, in this case, plastic. It looked great going on, but give it 6 months and look again.
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Also, I've used several brands super glue. But for thin supergule I've found Zap to really work well. And I like the Gorilla gel super glue for some things. These besides what I already said in my other post.
For clear parts, I like the Testors clear parts glue.
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I don't have one favorite glue, I use various glues for different reasons. But the glue I like that probably cant be found any longer, for permanent assembly of the main parts, is/was Model Master black bottle. Or if there will be some form of stress, like door hinges, I like the black bottle glue. When mine runs out, not sure what I'll use then. The Testors orange tube isn't bad but not as strong as the black bottle. If you think you might want to pop the model apart, just tack glue together with the orange tube.
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On 6/26/2024 at 11:21 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:
I won't disagree with much that you said, but I will disagree with this statement.
I routinely do quite well in the few shows that I attend, and I'm not using 2K.
As a matter of fact, a good number of those that I know that produce some of the best models that I've ever seen, do not use 2K either.
Shine on a model may be a high requirement to do well at a show, but there are a number of ways to reach that goal that don't require the use of 2K clear, and that has been the case for many years.
Likewise, I don't believe that most GOOD judges are not aware of the intricacies of what constitutes a good or "realistic" paint job.
They are just as knowledgeable, if not more so, of what a paint job should look like for a particular subject as we are, and as has become evident by a number of opinions just in this thread alone, there are a lot of people who feel that there absolutely can be such thing as too shiny when it comes to model cars, and that could very well include a good number of judges.
Just like anything else, 2K is not necessarily the "silver bullet" when it comes to paint.
It might be an option for some, but it's use alone is not necessarily going to bring home any more hardware than a good enamel paint finish, or a nicely executed polished lacquer paint job.
Steve
I should tread softly here, as many of you in the forums are still active in contests and shows. I have not been active in that for decades. Thus my statements you quoted from should have been less outright. Also, and I debated it, concerning 2k, I should have said something like, many modelers feel it's required to win. Rather than give the impression that it really takes 2K to win. My mistake !
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Those organic cartridges go active as soon as you open the sealed package. If you just leave them out in the air they won't last very long. So you need to get them sealed back up after each use. It's mostly the mask framework that holds the cartridges that gets condensation and as mentioned, it needs to be dry before bagging up.
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25 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:
This is an excellent point.
Even the best mask out there won't seal against beard stubble, much less a full beard.
A full air-supplied hood is your best option if your face is hairy.
Thats something I was thinking of addressing in the the thread on 2K I was responding to yesterday. One thing nice about the hoods is you can have a beard.
For organic type paints like enamels and lacquers they do have the hoods with a carbon filter pack in your back. But for 2K and catalyzed paints in general, I still like the idea of separate air supply, especially in 1/1. These give positive pressure in the hood. Nothing is getting in, and it's automatic eye protection.
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1 hour ago, Nicholas said:
thanks for the responses so far, aside from the carcinogenic qualities, it seems that every show i go to the cars are so shiny its crazy!,i use mcw enamels, and the shine right out of the bottle when mixed with mr hobby slow dry lacquer thinner is just great in my opinion looks more on the line of a factory 70's muscle car,...as it should because it's actually auto paint!.. but i was wondering the flip side of using a 2 k clear, but the health reasons are scaring me
Paint jobs have traditionally been about 80% of winning model car contests. But not because they are scale or true to the era of car. Gloss and polish wins the day. So it's gotten to where it takes 2K to win unless it's some patina category at a local show.
In my day, to win took candy color over metallic silver or gold. And strangely, upholstered interior in felt or corduroy. Oh and some semblance of spark plug wires. So I now don't do shows. Who cares ? Nobody. But I build em how I want them to look.
By the way, you could easily find flaws in a 1/1 show room stock paint job, even body panels in the 1960's and 70's. But don't try to enter that look in a model show unless you want to place last. Yet it might be most authentic. Most of the muscle cars with awesome shines back then were owner induced, through polishing and waxing, polishing and waxin faithfully. They didn't come off the lot that way, especially GM metallic colors in the late 60's. Least not the best I can recall.
I also might add, there was no 2K then !
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8 hours ago, Pierre_tec said:
Well maybe I’m the first to admit that I’m a sucker for 2k clear, but taking the safety issues of course. Although I dont use it as much as the body shops do, maybe 2-3 time a month, I try to always use it with a respirator and nitrile gloves.
My choice, Basf Rm5335, two coats and done. I paint mostly at night and since is a tropical island, humidity is always present. I can’t find Testors one coat lacquer locally. Also try AutoZone Upol high gloss clear, what a waste of money!
One of the easiest entry points for the type isocyanates in the 2k mix, to your body is through your eyes. This is not just while spraying but also during the curing process. If you still get a pre cured odor off the finish, it can get to you.. In 1/1, when we shot catalyzed paints we followed seminar class recommendations, to use a positive pressure head piece, with a fresh air source separate from the spray room.. This was basically a plastic head piece with open window in the front to see clearly through. The air escaping the hood went out through that eye opening, keeping paint and fumes out. While also wearing a mask, it was optional. In that you breathed the fresh air coming into the hood, nothing from the paint room. The mask was there in case of an error in the system..
What do I mean by " get to you" ? Well, the issue isn't just residual damage and the product gets expelled in time. This stuff gets into you and continues catalyzing, embedding into your body tissue cured. Literally it becomes part of you. Your body can not expel it like lacquer or enamel.
Of course you can do as you wish. But something that requires that kind of treatment to be fully safe is not entering my house. And I have a wife and pet to consider as well. Not to mention it would not be customary to clear coat the classic cars I tend to build anyway. You can see yourself in my enamel paint jobs and it's natural looking. LP lacquer being another good option, though I don't know about in high humidity.
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47 minutes ago, Bainford said:
As has been suggested, the potential health issues are reason enough to not use the stuff. But beyond that, personally I think it just doesn't look good. To each his own, this is very much 'eye-of-the-beholder' stuff and I won't knock what others prefer to use, but for my money it does not provide a pleasing look when striving for realism. That's just my view, of course, but I think the incredible shine is anti-realism. With so many great looking, user-friendly clears on the market, I struggle to understand why 2K is so popular in our hobby.
I have to agree. And actually in many of my build, since they are old classics and antique era build, I'd rather not use clear at all. Enamels when done right and LP lacquers are pretty dangs good right out of the airbrush. Maybe just a little buff up when the time is right. Most of those cars were not metallic . It's just when I get into hot rods and then I'm going to use a clear color or candy over a base color. I have 0 need for 2K. Thus my first reply.
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Tamiya acrylic paints not fully hardening.
in Model Building Questions and Answers
Posted
Just for the record, Mr Leveling thinner is lacquer thinner. It has an initial retarder feature that allows the paint to flow out. But overall dry time is still good. I thin Tamiya acrylics about 1 to 1, so equal part paint to thinner. It acts a lot like shooting the LP lacquers. I've also used hardware store lacquer thinner, for me personally it's good too. But IMO, the MLT gives a result a notch above.