tim boyd

David...a lot of materials on the Hamtramck site are updated with mid-year changes, and often there are "Product Information Letters" posted there that cover in-process model year spec changes. But I checked, and just as you said, there's nothing in either category on the décor group for '68 Plymouths. So I looked at some other reference materials - in this case, the Dodge and Plymouth Muscle Car Red Book, Second Edition (Peter C. Sessler). Some disagree with me, but I have found this book to be a fairly accurate (though by no means bulletproof) source of Mopar info. It lists order code 360 Road Runner Decor Group for $79.20. The text says" The Road Runner Décor Group spiffed things up a bit with expanded interior color selection, a steering wheel with partial trim ring, center pillar moldings, and a rear deck lid applique." So apparently the décor group in 1968 1/2 was exterior/interior combined. Also checked the Road Runner seat and door panels and the seat sew style doesn't appear to match any of the seats shown in the Hamtramck Dealer Color and Trim Selector. It was probably an additional sew style introduced at mid-year with the package, and the interior door panels in the kit are WAY too deluxe to be the entry level Road Runner, they were clearly upgraded as well. Of course, there is always the possibility that the 1/1 car AMT/Ertl scaled was not factory correct, but for purposes of where we are right now, I would suggest you consider the kit to have the Décor Group and build it that way on both the outside and inside (including the Kieth Mark decals). That's the way I would build mine. Hope this helps...TIM

David...good questions there. When I factory ordered my '74 Road Runner, the exterior and interior décor groups were separate options...you could get one or the other or both (I got both!). As for '68, from what I recall, the Exterior Décor Group became available at midyear, about the same time as the Hardtop bodystyle was added. It may have been that the upgraded seat became available at the same time. I didn't know that the kit seat was the upgraded one. And I don't know if there was an Interior Décor Group at that point. I recommend you look at the Hamtramck Registry website and go through the '68 Plymouth Color and Trim/Interior pages they have posted there. That will tell all, I'm sure.... Best regards..>TIM

Bob...thanks for the feedback and further comments. When AMT did the art for the Countdown series, much of the Art Department was still intact (I was doing work for them at the time....the '65 El Camino countdown kit pictured the build they commissioned from me for that kit). It was probably about six months later, when the strike hit, that they laid off the rest of the Art Department. I had interviewed for full time work there, but the strike happened and they told me no job was available....weeks later I started at Ford and lost all contact with that group.... TB

Bill...thanks...I didn't notice that....but I just figured out...the side panel art in light blue with the vent windows is a direct lift from the "stock version" end panel of the '78 Countdown issue box art. I just noticed that the '68 blackout lower treatment is in this illustration as well. Seems we (or at least I) wasn't as sharp about catching these discrepancies back in the day. Thanks for pointing that out....TIM

Curtis...it's still there but should be a fairly quick and easy removal....thanks for asking...TIM

The AMT and MPC are both come from the same tool, and both are 1967 (not 1966) versions as far as I know. The tool was updated for 1967 during the original MPC annual kit run. The major difference is in the interior (the console is shorter on the '67) and the upholstery sew style. I don't have all reissues of this kit but the ones I do did not include the stock wheel covers. I'm writing all this from memory (without the kits in front of me), so if anyone has the kit in front of them and sees something different, don't hesitate to tell me I'm wrong! TIM Oh....I see Don posted while I was writing and said the same thing...TB

Sorry guys...I locked it until I was able to post the text, but then forgot to remove the password when I posted the links. It's fixed now. Enjoy...TIM Randy...fixed now...sorry for the confusion but glad you enjoyed the other content...Best Regards...TIM

Here's a link to a detailed review and commentary on this new kit release from Round 2 AMT. There are several reasons why I think this new issue is preferable to the one previous issue of the '69 convertible kit back in 1978 (both kit issues shown below). http://public.fotki.com/funman1712/first-look-at-all-n/first-lookwhats-new-1/ Thanks for looking...TIM

Wow Casey...I never knew any version of this kit existed with a set of surfboards and a blown 454 option! Thanks for posting this....TIM

Walter...that is looking super sharp so far! TIM

John.....WOW! Just WOWWWWW! Superb detailing you are doing there. Tim

John...no apology necessary or expected at all. Just passionate modelers having a good discussion. Cool detail on the tranny shaft - I missed that one! Best regards...TIM

For this type of kit, the model companies are designing for the adult hobbyist, and from what I know the buyers are almost all adult model car builders. Children (or parents buying for children) usually go for the simpler, "snap kit" or "fast build" products today. TB

John...good points, all. Ideally we'd get a direct response from someone inside the companies, but I don't expect that is going to happen any time soon. As an outsider looking in, perhaps I can add some perspective that will hopefully be more correct than not... First, the model companies I know of today are VERY small, tight-knit organizations today. The remaining industry volume and sales revenue for model car kit sales just can't support larger or even moderately sized organizations. So in the situations I am aware of, the "Suits" as they are sometimes call here, are heavily involved in the creation and production of the kits. In fact, the most senior person I currently know well in the model companies is a die-hard car enthusiast who has owned (and maintained, and worked on) C2 Corvettes for virtually his entire adult life and regularly travels to the Woodward Dream Cruise, Oakland (now in LA) Roadster Show, and similar car-guy events. My guess is that he probably knows more about the insides of a carb than 90% of us who read this forum. Second, I can understand the frustration with inaccurately rendered carb venturis and seven vs. eight hole distributors, but for some on this board to discredit this entire kit on the basis of those and some very evident overdone wheel lips, strikes me as a case of possibly missing the bigger picture in this case. As you put it, I mean no disrespect, but...what about all the stuff Revell got right with this kit? The correct factory stock building options like the plated as well as correctly shaped Elastomeric front bumpers? The overall appearance of the finished chassis and the interior? The shape of separately molded, plated fishgill rocker panels or the engraving on the pistol grip shifter handle, for example? I'll be very up front here - I built two of these kits and I still missed both the distributor and carb venturi goofs, probably because so much of the kit was right. Could that have been what happened at Revell? Finally, all consumer products are the result of tradeoffs. In this case, the model manufacturers have to work with Artisans that are half the world away, who in most cases have never been given the benefit of seeing in person what they are being asked to recreate in miniature. The volumes involved can no longer financially justify having the tools created just 60 miles down the road (e.g. 1225 East Maple to the former tooling house in Windsor, Canada) any more. The alternative would be no new kits at all. Instead, the model companies work with their suppliers and overseas tooling houses to get these products right as much as humanly possible, and those suppliers also do their best to get it right. Then there's the timeline. At what point do you hit the "publish" button? If you were the product manager, would you have held the kit up yet another 3-6 months (uneducated guess here) to fix the distributor and carb? Now it's time for me to question something. Having spent my 35 1/2 years in the auto industry of which the last 12 were senior positions in the Design department, I agree with Chuck K. on the following - I do not understand why the model companies are not using 3D digital scans in the development of their 1950's to 1970's model car kits. By this point in the 100 year development of the automotive styling profession, each 1/1 scale car design was the result of thousands of hours of studio designers and engineers fine tuning things like - for example- wheel well openings and fender lips. Or in this case, the artistry of the surfaces in the '70 'cuda taillight panel cove, which no one - MPC, JoHan, or Revell - has correctly captured in their kits. There just isn't time or money to continue to develop a 1/25th scale tool to catch all these subtle tweaks. On the other hand, the cost of a high quality digital scan is now in the mid 4 digit range (e.g., just $5,000, more or less), and with some additional expenditures to process the scan results, and perhaps to ship, prep, and clean the 1//1 scale car post-scan. This digital scan could at least give the overseas toolmakers a huge head start in capturing the subtle surface nuances of the original 1/1 scale designs. It would seem to me that the incremental cost of this up front expenditure would be more than offset by not having to retool body castings to correct mistakes that were the result of trying to design a model from 2D pictures alone. To me, personally, this is a much bigger issue than some embarrassing omissions or engraving on small engine parts. Once again, I'm struggling to find the right tonality in these remarks. I feel that there is a great deal of misunderstanding in the hobby community about how the model car industry actually works. As a result there are often statements made on the model car boards that are, at best, unfair to the hardworking people at these companies. But on the other hand, and as you John so succinctly and correctly put "you represent the guy that they are selling to". Hope this adds a little bit of insight. Others with industry contacts, feel free to step in with your knowledge and views as well, whether they agree with me or not! TIM

Bill - got them and agree. Thanks for taking the time to add your insight to the discussion and Best Regards....TIM

Art...good point about closing one eye when comparing actual shapes vs. pictures of same. You just reminded me of a technique sometimes used in the 1/1 scale automotive design studios when comparing designs - which is to look at the designs upside down or rotated 90 degrees. The eyes pick up differences that are unseen in more familiar views. Hmmm...maybe I should do that exercise in this case and see what pops up. TIM

Lee....thanks and I agree with you. The most important point here is that to do an entirely valid photo comparison, as several of you pointed out above, you need the same camera, the same lense and lense setting, and the same camera angle for both the 1/1/ and the 1/25th scale 'cudas. The above photo comparisons lack this continuity and therefore are interesting, but do not provide the basis to draw a definitive conclusion. If and when someone does this exact camera/lense/angle comparison, the most likely conclusion will be that none of the models - the MPC, JoHan, or Revell - are 100% correct replicas of the 1/1 car, but all of them are reasonably close. Yes, the Revell body has some errors - most (but not all) of which have been pointed out in this thread of posts. But for most of us, when any of these three scale 'cudas are done and setting on the shelf, they say "'70 'cuda" when you look and handle them. (Well, the JoHan says '71, but you get my point). Just weighing in here, "representing the opposition"... Cheers....TIM

...possibly the best one yet; great features from the old Car Craft archives back when it was THE source for cool drag racing news, stories, and car features, plus some more recently composed retrospectives about the era, including the Bill Bagshow Pro Stocks, a reprint of the two part "Surfers" Rail Dragster expose from a few years back, and even a cool article on that 289 Cobra powered '65 Galaxie 500 C/FX you keep seeing pictures of.... TIM

"Just picked the newly re-issued AMT RR kit up last nite. This kit appears to be basically a repackage of the "Millennium" kit with a few minor changes. First, the re-issue has a an interesting set of tires. One side has raised white letters with "Goodyear Polyglass GT L60-15" script and the reverse side though non-scripted has a single Red-line stripe. The Millennium kit tires are identically scripted but are NOT white lettered nor Red-line striped on the reverse side. The kit has the same Hemi power-plant with stock exhaust as before. The intake manifold options of dual in-line crabs or cross-ram intake with Hemi styled air cleaner remain the same. However, the custom build options of dual velocity stacks or dual custom air cleaners are no longer included like the Millennium kit. Also, like the earlier AMT release the body does not have molded in "Road Runner" badges/scripts. And, like the prior AMT offering it does not include any decals." ************** Not to offend anyone, but there are several errors in this post. As Raymond noted, the new reissue does have the RoadRunner decals. It also has the dual velocity stacks and custom air cleaners. And the "RoadRunner" badge is re-engraved in the rear trunk lid. For more details and photos, click on the link to my earlier post #

I've been really surprised that there's been relatively little discussion on the just-reissued Round 2 version of the AMT-Ertl '68 Road Runner kit. Accordingly, I've prepared a kit review and commentary at the attached thread, including a comparison with box art of the original AMT 1968 Annual Kits, and a comparo with the original JoHan 1969 RoadRunner annual kit body. Details at the link, and remember to click on each individual picture to see the associated text/commentary. http://public.fotki.com/funman1712/first-look-at-all-n/refreshed-amt-round/refreshed-amt-round/ Thanks for looking....TIM (Post revised slightly at 1:30pm EST 12 January)

Brett is correct on this. Personally, I didn't remember this to be the case. But when I started going through my stockpiled research material in anticipation of receiving my preview sample from Revell, I quickly found that the standard Shaker Hood for '70 Hemi 'cudas is one fact that they all (!) agreed on. TB

Here...http://public.fotki.com/funman1712/first-look-at-all-n/new-revell-slingste/new-revell-slingste-1/ is a detailed look at the contents and merchandising approach of Revell's new Slingster dragster....also included is selected comparisons with the original Sizzler kits from 1961 and 1967. Thanks for looking...TIM

J.B., gotta agree with you completely on this one. The AMT Mooneyes is clearly superior, particularly in the exhaust headers rendition. Nice builds btw! TIM

Bernard....cool recap. FWIW, the 392 Hemi is rebopped in the Revell Miss Deal kit. It's identical as far as I can tell, except for the different exhaust headers, and the point that all the pieces are chromed in the Parts Pack version, vs. only those you'd actually want chromed in the Miss Deal kit. I agree that the 327 Chevy Parts Pack is the hardest to find. Also, I haven't read the entire thread so apologies in advance if I'm repeating something already said but many of Revell's full model kits of the early 60's contained engines that were designed in the same manner as their Parts Pack engines. I'm particularly fond of the Cadillac in the Outlaw kit (which is similar to the Parts Pack Cad but has different building options including the intake manifold/carb setup), the blown Olds in the Beatnik Bandit (some really cool parts on that one), and even the 409 Chevy optional engine in the original Revell '55 Chevy kit. In any case, like others have said here, these Revell Parts Packs are cool engines, with excellent period-correct speed accessories, that are generally a fun and authentic build. TIM