tim boyd

Chuck - 1000% agree with you on this! BTW what type of '71 Charger did you have? For me, a '71 Charger SE/440 Magnum/Buckets and Console/Factory 15x7 Rallye Wheels/RWL Goodyear G60-15's, is still probably at the very top of my list of 1/1 scale holy grails!. TIM

Thanks Mike. Also, "Hot Rod V8's in the Feb, April and June 2007 issues....TIM

Casey.... As to question #1, yes I did this in quite a bit of detail when I first got my hands on the new Revell kit. I also compared all three bodies to some 1.1 scale photography I had shot specifically for this comparison, and also compared the three bodies to a couple of the Danbury Mint '70 'cuda diecasts. It was an interesting analysis....and as a result I no longer consider the MPC kit to be the single best 'cuda body. That honor (in my mind) now lies with the JoHan kit. The second surprise was the several areas where the new Revell kit was superior to both of the other kits, including the front door forward cutline as it nears and meets the A-pillar. The third surprise was that all three of the bodies don't fully capture the intricate combination of panel surfaces and sculpture in the tailamp cove area of the 1/1 scale car (the Revell body is probably the closest here, but it is not fully correct). My final conclusion was that if I was building a super-accurate 'cuda model now, I would actually start with the Revell body rather than the MPC or JoHan body, and work to accurize the body from there (e.g., reduce the width of the wheel flares, etc.) Regarding question #2, one of the differences between the MPC and Revell kits is that the Revell front header panel (that runs from the top of the grille to the front of the hood) is much more realistic in the Revell kit - the MPC body incorrectly foreshortens this panel. That means that the hood from the MPC kit might be too long for the Revell body (although you would think it would be easy to shorten it to fit). If I get a chance I will do the actual comparison and report back (unless someone else does it first!) Best regards...TIM

For those following the posts in this thread about 1/1 scale '70 'cuda specs and related topics, the Admin just relocated those posts to a 1/1 scale reference photos section thread on the '70 'cuda kit. Best regards....TIM

Being an L.A.-area lifetime resident , and having grownup none too far from the esoteric L.A. Plant , I'm going to build my 'Cuda as an L.A.-built , 440+6 / T-Flite model . But only after I build one out-of-box in order to get a feel for its assembly ***************** John - I think you have a very good idea to build the kit out of box the first time, before modifying it. I wouldn't call it difficult to assemble, but it is definitely a bit challenging. The second one I built went together much quicker (and better) after learning about the kit with the first build. Being a lifelong SE Michigan resident (excepting a number of cross country relocations with my career employer), I certainly understand your fascination with the LA Chrysler Plant, I owned a new '73 Duster 340 that was presumably build in one of Chrysler's Detroit area plants, and then a year later factory ordered a '74 Road Runner E58 360 hi-po which was built at the Windsor, Canada assembly plant, located less than an hour from where I am typing this right now! Best regards...TIM

Jens and John....yes we are getting slightly off topic here and it's my fault, but I think it demonstrates the level of accuracy we are striving to achieve with our Mopar models, be they the new Revell 'cuda kit or something else. That TBD Blue '72 Road Runner 440-6 sounds like a great model project. I'd hazard a guess it would have been either B3 Basin Street (Petty/Corporation) Blue for B5 True Blue Metallic. I'd do mine with B3! TIM

The Hall of Fame goes back to 1992....amongst the names inducted in the 1990's include Dave Shuklis, Budd Anderson, Don Emmons (in 1993), Oscar Koveleski, Phil Jenson, Herb Jackson, Bob Barnett, Bob Paeth, and George Toteff. I believe the earlier post listing those so recognized only went back to the year 2000? This list of honorees may add some context to how the nominations and awards were determined. Also, some of you may recall that there was a yearly ballot in Scale Auto magazine for readers to vote on the nominees for each year, although at some point in the last decade that process was discontinued. I do hope Mark is able to respond, as he has put a great deal of thought into his nomination and Hall of Fame process, and he is always looking for input on who should be considered for future awards. TB

Harry...the Hall of Fame is administered by Mark Gustavson and his Board who are responsibible for the GSL contest...I've forwarded this thread to him and hopefully he will respond and provide some answers to your questions. I know the answers exist, as Mark has thought through this very completely. All - Mark is always interested in getting nominations for the Hall of Fame...if you have some, you should send them to him directly. Best regards....TIM

Chris and John - thanks for the info on those '72 440 6 barrels....just way cool! TIM

Thanks Jens. Funny thing, I was thinking of those '72 Six Pack cars as I was going through my old issues of Mopar Muscle, Mopar Collectors Guide, Mopar Action, Mopar Enthusiast, MoPower, et al, looking for any Red Sport Tape Stripe '70 'cudas survivors or restorations by noted experts. I am not an expert on '72 Six Packs, but IIRC there have been just three documented factory builds; dodo you know offhand whether that is correct? And if so, were they all "GTX-badged" Road Runners, or was one a Rallye Charger? Thanks...TIM ,

Craig....recommend you let Revell know right away....TIM

Jens...according to the Govier code books, you are correct, the "Lime" stripe (nomenclature used in this source) is V4J, not V4G as in the post above. Regarding Sessler as an author, I have his books on Paint Codes, V8 Engine History, Mopars and other topics. As a generalization, I have found his accuracy to be substantially better than the normal standard for such books. Is he 100% correct? Very unlikely, no author is 100% correct. As far as his statement about B5 Air Grabbers, I've been around long enough to see time and time again where "I never saw that" finally ended up to be proven wrong when it comes to Mopars from the 1960's and early 1970's. Even a few times involving the most respected experts in this field. You are certainly justified in your view of this subject, but so am I. Maybe we agree to disagree this time? Cheers...TIM

Fantastic -- love these types of stories! Thanks...TIM

John ...cool...is the V4 was the Longitudinal Strope Stripe (don't have my code book with me downstairs)? If yes, there was a fourth color - black. What is really interesting is that there were 2-3 different names Plymouth used to describe the magenta and green stripes, depending on what document you were looking at. That Imperial story about redyed Mod Top material is wild, first I've heard of that. Can you imagine...the typical staid older corporate type (llocal Bank President, perhaps) who buys his '71 Imperial and then has the top fade into a Mod Top? Priceless! (BTW, I am a fan of the '69-'73 Imperial anyway, shame that you couldn't get it with a console when you ordered the bucket seats - that would be a too cool match!) More Mopar trivia - in 1970, when you ordered a Dart Custom 2-door hardtop (a very rare car to begin with - 95% of Dart Hardtops were the Swinger/Swinger 340 models that year) with optional bucket seats, Dodge added a "GT" nameplate, probably more leftovers from the '69 model year. (For those of you not familiar with Mopar history, the Dart GT and GTS were discontinued in 1970 with the arrival of the Challenger). I wonder how many Dart Custom "GT's were built that year? Maybe a few hundred at most? Still more Mopar Trivia - while special paint Mopars were on the decline starting in '71, there were at least a few 1973 Charger SE's built with the B9 Dark Blue Metallic that was otherwise a C-Body exclusive color that year. The paint was listed as Code "09" on the window label (again, for you non-Mopar types, Mopar data plates used "999" for special paint cars). I personally observed several of these at Pointe Dodge in Gross Point, Michigan, in Spring of 1973, these were also unique because they were the only '73-'74 Charger SE's I ever saw with the optional Halo Vinyl Roof (yes, it was a factory option for SE's). There was also at least one Dodge Coronet Crestwood wagon also painted the same color at the same dealership, and my Dad ended up buying it new and using it as his business/family car for the next four years. Oh...it also had the 400 Magnum, duals, and even the Tuff steering wheel, all from the factory. TB

One thing to keep in mind is (from what I recall back in the day) that the production run of '70 'cudas and Challengers was very front-loaded in the 1970 model year. This was due in part to deteriorating economic conditions during the year, the growing onslaught against muscle cars by the government and insurance industry, and not the least, some new and very innovative GM F-Body cars introduced in February, 1970 that completely rewrote the book on sports compact cars. What this means is that the second half of the model year for 'cudas and Challengers, roughly February to July, had less significantly less production volume than the first half, and this of course was also the period during which many of the new 'cuda and Challenger options became available. That's probably one reason why these cars are so rare or in some cases, essentially unknown. As I said, I've never personally seen a Blue Shaker, but then again, I've never seen a car equipped with any eight of the additional rear elastomeric bumper options that became available at mid year, either. Today I looked up (again) one of the sources I used on the Blue Shaker info, it is the "Dodge and Plymouth Muscle Car Red Book, Second Edition, by Peter C. Sessler, MBI Publishing, 2001." The specific reference to B5 Blue (along with Rallye Red, Oganisol Black, and Astrotone Silver) Shaker availability is on p. 47. As we all know, Mopar reference books vary in their accuracy, but I've found Peter C. Sessler as an author to generally have his act/accuracy together, whether he's writing about Mopars, Engines, Paint colors, or whatever. Still... More food for thought...TB

David...thanks, that is very interesting about the Richard Carpenter car. I recall reading about this car many years ago, and in fact I always thought that the red stripe was factory-correct, but when I started to research this subject a few weeks back, I went through all my books on Mopars, and the file of articles I've been keeping on '70'cudas. This file dates back to 1984, and has somewhere north of 30 color articles. There were a number of white stripe cars amongst the various articles and books, but none with the red stripe that I remembered. The fact that this Richard Carpenter car was ordered late in the model year would support the theory that white, and possibly (?) red stripes, were added before production of the '70 model year concluded. Within the last couple of hours, I checked my Galen Govier Mopar Sales Codes books, and it shows " V 6 * " as the '70 'cuda Sport Tape Stripe, where " * " is used to signify that the last digit is different depending on the color of the stripe. On some of other other tape stripe options, he later defines what the third digit is (in terms of color choices), but on the V6* this definition is missing from his listing. Maybe we are going to have to declare this as "non definitive" until someone (hopefully the Hamtramck Registry?) can come up with a copy of factory documentation clarifying when and what additional colors of the V6 Sport Tape Stripe were added during the year. Thanks everyone for your additional insights on this....TIM

I also use this resource regularly and I completely agree - it's a fantastic resource. In this case, the chart represents the availability at the beginning of the year - with the V6X Sport Tape Stripe representing the "hockey" stripe being in Black only. This source is also among the best sources I've seen on mid-year updates, but they haven't captured everything in this area - yet. I've also noticed that they continue to add updates so it's a good idea to check back every few months. There are several '70 'cuda restorations that show the stripe in white, meaning either that it became available during the year, or (and this is possible) somebody got creative after the fact. I have never seen a survivor or 'cuda restoration with a red stripe, though. TIM

Bill...like you, I've been around Mopars (or at least,Mopars of this era) all my life (my professional work career was with a different manufacturer!) I've been aware of the white sport stripe some time now, but the Blue Shaker was a surprise to me as well.. Of course, I am relying here on what the professionals and the printed record says....TB

One of my favorite topics... 1968 there was also a (different) 1968 Bright Blue - often seen on '68 Roadrunners that still carried Chrylser's old paint code system - code QQ1 "Electric Blue" (Plymouth) and "Bright Blue Metallic" (Dodge). '69-'70 EB5 and '71-'73 GB5 as in John's note '74 B5 was yet another color..."Lucerne Blue Metallic" for both Plymouth, and Dodge. It was not as pure/intense a Blue as GB5. GB5 was discontinued/not available in '74 So...when people say "B5 Blue" in a generic way, they are actually talking about what could be four different paint colors. Certain magazine editors are the worst about this! TIM

Neil...that model is WAY cool....can you give any more background on the build? TIM

Fred...yep...the entire car would need to be B5 Blue Fire Metallic in order to have the Blue Shaker. But one could still have added a vinyl roof, and a white or black "Sport Tape Stripe", or since the B5 Blue Shaker was a mid year add, one could have added the "Longitudinal Strope Sttripe", so bottom line, plenty of potential variations in the build...just as Rob notes in his post directly above. TIM

Bingo! TB

Rob....right you are....now....anybody wanna' guess what blue it was? TB

Let's hope so, John! TIM

Jens...thanks for the comments and let me respond to your points based on the research and resources I have consulted. These resources include magazine articles on 'cuda restorations and survivors (dating from 1984 through 2013!), original factory dealer memos and order guides, and restoration guides and references from authors like Galen Govier, et al: * At the beginning of the model year, the "Sport Tape Stripe" (aka hockey stick stripe) was only available in Black. It also became available in White sometime during the model year. There is no indication it was ever offered in Red (though my memory suggested it), and it was not available in Silver. * I agree with you on the deletion of the wheelwell trim on Hemi 'cudas during the model year. As a personal preference I believe they are essential to the appearance of the car (and I have, ever since 1970 - not that I was strongly opinionated that the subject that far back!!!). The majority of restored and survivor Hemi 'cudas I have seen have them, though by no means do all have them. So unless someone is duplicating a specific 1/1 scale car, it becomes a choice for us as we build the kit. * Shaker hoods were eventually available in four colors by the end of the model year. Red, Organisol Black, and Astrotone Silver were available through most of the model year, and then one additional color was added at mid year. No one has documented what determined whether a car got a Black or Silver Shaker, as you say, there was apparently no order code between the two colors. The other two Shaker colors were restricted to cars that wore the same exterior paint color as the Shakers - e.g. Monochromatic. The Red Shaker also tied into the original availability of the Elastomeric rear bumper in red only, although it was not restricted to cars with red rear bumpers. * As for the fourth Shaker hood color, I'm not going to reveal it here - it was very rare in that it was a mid-year option, and I have never seen one personally. If someone guesses correctly, I will confirm it. Shaker hood colors are just one element of the '70 'cuda mystique. There's also the elastomeric front bumpers (available in nine colors), the painted racing mirrors, the expanded paint color availability of rear elastomeric bumpers at mid year, the addition of two exterior paint colors at mid year, the expansion of white with black components interiors to white with other accent colors at mid year. and on and on and on! Oh - and don't forget the vinyl top options, including "Mod Yellow" and 'Mod Blue' as someone commented earlier in this thread. None of the above is to suggest that this is the final, 100% accurate word on '70 'cudas - as we've learned time and time again - Chrysler back then seemed to change the rules on a moment's notice. But it does represent - to the best of my ability - what seems to be the most current areas of agreement among the "experts" that I respect. Thanks..TIM