Greg Myers Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 More good stuff from the past making a super kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toner283 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The smooth tonneau cover is in the "Trucks" issue of the 40. I wonder whether the gates were reopened for it or whether it was retooled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 With those early Monogram kits, what's in the box now is probably all that there is. I've compared a couple of the newer issues to the originals (looked at the '40 pickup yesterday). If you check the original chrome parts trees against later issue ones, you'll see that the tree is smaller in the recent kit, and original parts still in the kit are in different places relative to one another now. That would indicate that the tooling inserts have been moved around, or the old mold cut apart and sections of it rearranged. The question then becomes "what happened to the missing pieces". It's not like some AMT or MPC kits where the old and new trees look the same, with huge empty spaces between parts in the newer one. With those kits, parts have been blocked off by welding little blockages into the tool, to stop plastic from reaching certain parts. In those cases, in recent issues the blockages have been removed putting the parts back in. The original parts in those old Monogram kits would probably have to be reconstructed from scratch, like Revell finally did with the Tweedy Pie kit a couple of years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr mopar Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I got the early iron kit of this truck ,the only one with stacks ,and I love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L. Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Fellas, I recall that years ago a resin company offered a "trans kit" that had many of the stock parts recast. Wheels, tires and stock hubcaps were included... Edited June 22, 2015 by Pete L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Greg is interested in the original custom parts in addition to the stock parts that were in the kit. Truth be known, some of those parts (like the grille) were pretty horrible looking though the ribbed bumpers do look great. The custom wire wheel covers were well done but aren't the best choice for that truck. The trans kit included some parts that were never in the original kit; for example, the interior parts (kit always had the custom seat and door panels, no stock ones). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Greg is interested in the original custom parts in addition to the stock parts that were in the kit. Truth be known, some of those parts (like the grille) were pretty horrible looking though the ribbed bumpers do look great. The custom wire wheel covers were well done but aren't the best choice for that truck. The trans kit included some parts that were never in the original kit; for example, the interior parts (kit always had the custom seat and door panels, no stock ones). I did that stock transkit in resin, back about 1995 or so. Frankly, it didn't sell all that well--perhaps I was just a bit early on it--who knows? Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatz4u Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 wish they had made a 40 Ford pickup in 1/25th scale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Truth be known, some of those parts (like the grille) were pretty horrible looking though A bunch of the custom stuff from back then looked pretty goofy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxer Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 That would indicate that the tooling inserts have been moved around, or the old mold cut apart and sections of it rearranged. Have you ever seen a mold for an injection molding machine? .. 'cut apart and rearranged' ???? I'm no mold expert .. just a structural engineer that has designed molding machine foundations (one the Alpha for GE Plastics that is one of largest molding machines in the US) and fit bridge cranes in Detroit to handle larger molds than original. I seriously doubt any mold could be 'cut apart and rearranged' .. even one as small as a 1/25 kit is. Could you expound on how this is possible?.. I'm always looking to learn .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ellis Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 You could have Dean Milano elaborate on this kit. He worked for Revell and I asked him about this kit. What I got is that, the parts that you guys want, are gone, and have been gone for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Have you ever seen a mold for an injection molding machine? .. 'cut apart and rearranged' ???? I'm no mold expert .. just a structural engineer that has designed molding machine foundations (one the Alpha for GE Plastics that is one of largest molding machines in the US) and fit bridge cranes in Detroit to handle larger molds than original. I seriously doubt any mold could be 'cut apart and rearranged' .. even one as small as a 1/25 kit is. Could you expound on how this is possible?.. I'm always looking to learn .. Back in the day, a lot of mold cavities for model car kit tooling were cut from smaller blocks of tool steel, with a slight press fit into the mold base. Often times, those got removed, replaced by a different block for different parts, or were eliminated entirely, particularly in the 1970's, when there was a real concern about petroleum shortages that would possibly have not only run up the cost of polystyrene, but perhaps even meant some shortages there. That concern was real enough, that on one of my many trips to AMT Corporation back in the mid 70's, I was shown a semi-truck load of unused polystyrene window shutter trim from a mobile home factory, that AMT would grind up into pellets for their injection molders, I was even asked for my opinion on a possible styrene recycling program AMT was considering, which would have meant corrugated cardboard bins in hobby shops, for customers to bring in, deposit their empty model kit sprues (but that idea of course, went nowhere fast!). Even so, with any model car kit tooling as old as the Monogram '40 Ford (even many AMT kits as well), when and if those smaller tooling block inserts got removed and replaced with something else, while they perhaps weren't all scrapped, they probably are in some heavy crate someplace, Lord only knows where, and in what crate. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrknowetall Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Like Art said. Back in the seventies, there was a period of time when AMT used "re-grind" styrene in their kit manufacturing process, and the plastic quality was nominal at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 , they probably are in some heavy crate someplace, Lord only knows where, and in what crate. Art We have top men working on it right now. Top.... Men.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxer Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Back in the day, a lot of mold cavities for model car kit tooling were cut from smaller blocks of tool steel, with a slight press fit into the mold base. Often times, those got removed, replaced by a different block for different parts, or were eliminated entirely, particularly in the 1970's, when there was a real concern about petroleum shortages that would possibly have not only run up the cost of polystyrene, but perhaps even meant some shortages there. Even so, with any model car kit tooling as old as the Monogram '40 Ford (even many AMT kits as well), when and if those smaller tooling block inserts got removed and replaced with something else, while they perhaps weren't all scrapped, they probably are in some heavy crate someplace, Lord only knows where, and in what crate. Art Thanks for the clarification, Art. I didn't know they grouped molds like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3100 chevy Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 This kit has moulded in exhausts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Like Art said. Back in the seventies, there was a period of time when AMT used "re-grind" styrene in their kit manufacturing process, and the plastic quality was nominal at best. I believe that most everyone in the injection molded plastic industry still does this--especially with the very large, thick "sprues" resulting from the initial input "ports" in the tooling. I suspect however, that such reground and recycled plastic is mixed in with fresh material though--probably has been all through the history of injection molded plastics of all kinds. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62rebel Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I worked at a plastic pipe fitting plant for a short period; during that time we ground up thousands of mistakes in what was probably the noisiest machine I've ever heard. the chips coming out of it were mixed right back into the feeder. i can still hear that screeeeech..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 From what I've read over the years, a certain amount of "regrind" plastic is actually desirable, as it makes the finished product less brittle. I don't know if it's true, but I always thought that vintage Jo-Han kit plastic used less of the stuff, and so ended up more brittle than other manufacturers' plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemi Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Funny you guys mentioned the recycled sprue as I have often wondered if there was a use for the empty parts trees I know I'd sure like to see the truck Greg posted come back. Edited July 1, 2015 by hemi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L. Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Art, Those parts you made for the '40 FORD pick-up were really cool, what with the recent releases maybe the time has come for their return !!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Art, Those parts you made for the '40 FORD pick-up were really cool, what with the recent releases maybe the time has come for their return !!! :D No longer possible. I used several of the master parts for other projects in later years. FWIW, this is a list of the stock parts I cast up: Directly reproduced from an orginal kit;; Stock intake manifold.carburetor and air cleaner Stock instrument panel, stock steering wheel 5 stock wheels with tires mounted 4 stock hubcaps (spare wheel did not get one--has just 3 lug bolts for securing to the spare tire mount Spare Tire mount Original left rear fender, with dimple for clearance for the spare wheel & tire Stock tailgate (no louvers and FORD script) Stock front axle ************************************** Modified parts included (these parts were ALWAYS custom parts, Monogram did not mold these in stock form, ever!) Stock hood (removed the louvers from the later reissues) Stock seat--block-sanded down the diamond-tufted custom upholstery, then laid thin sheet styrene over that, edged with fine styrene rod stock for the "piping" Stock interior door panels, sanded the custom ones down, laid thin styrene over the diamond-tufted custom upholstery panels, added door handles and window cranks. I used, in 2003-2004, the mastering for the stock seat and stock interior door panels when I built up a stock 1938 Ford 1 1/2 ton stake truck from the excellently executed Yatming 1938 Ford fire truck. In resin, this stock parts set only sold approximately 40 transkit sets, not enough to pay for the time and effort, nor the rubber molds. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L. Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Art, Thanks a lot for the break down of parts you cast AND ESPECIALLY the techniques for making stock seating and door panels ! I can appreciate the efforts and your reasoning for discontinuing the conversion kit...what I can't understand is why Monogram hasn't put the parts that were available back in the truck kit ??? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Art, Thanks a lot for the break down of parts you cast AND ESPECIALLY the techniques for making stock seating and door panels ! I can appreciate the efforts and your reasoning for discontinuing the conversion kit...what I can't understand is why Monogram hasn't put the parts that were available back in the truck kit ??? Pete Because the original parts that were removed probably no longer exist. Comparing the plated tree in the current kit to one from an original, the parts still in the kit are arranged differently in relation to one another. That would indicate that the original tooling was reworked (possibly cut apart, or individual inserts removed from it and rearranged). When that happened, it was seldom done with the thought of putting it back together later in the original arrangement. At the time (early Seventies) the thought was probably "let's dump these outdated custom parts". Like the Tom Daniel kits show rod kits that were restored to original versions, reworking the Ford pickup back to the original near-stock version would likely have to be done with newly tooled parts. The same type of alteration (rearranged parts) was done with one of the other early Ford kits I checked; if I remember right I checked the '30 Ford phaeton kit when I had an original one a while back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L. Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Mark, Thanks for the info on the chrome tree. Monogram sure got mileage out of that '30 Ford kit ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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