AMT TeeVee Dune Buggy

[Snake45]

Last week someone post pics of a very nicely built AMT TeeVee dune buggy. The model was nicely done and the pics were good but I noticed something that seems to be a problem (again, this is AMT's problem, NOT the modeler's). The "cabin" just looks way too short.

I just got this kit so I measured the space between the rear wall of the "cabin" and the dashboard. Both surfaces are slanted so a bit hard to get a reading (it'll depend on exactly where you put the calipers) but the longest measurement I got was 1.1". Let's call that 27-28 inches in scale.

I sat a chair next to a wall, sat on the chair, and put a yardstick over my shoulder till it touched the wall. If the dashboard were 28 inches away, it would be more than halfway up my thighs (maybe even closer to my crotch). To hold a steering wheel positioned from such a dash, my elbows would have to be against my sides--and I could probably lick such a steering wheel by bending my head forward slightly.

How you'd even get into such a cockpit, I have no idea--and remember, the thing doesn't have doors. (And I thought my old girlfriend's MG Midget was an entry nightmare!)

I had hoped to Snake-slap this kit together in a weekend or two, but I just don't think I can live with this arrangement. Looks like I'm gonna have to cut the cowl/dashboard from the body and move it forward something like 1/4" or maybe more. And the body tapers in this area, too, so it won't be a simple cut-and-paste. Some semi-sophisticated bodywork will have to be done to pull it off.

Ah shucks oh well....

[Greg Myers]

[AC Norton]

SNAKE, you really are one of a kind.......measuring from a chair....to the wall....something about the crotch,,,,do you stay up at night and think up all this stuff, or , do you not realize that models,,,most of which that we are dealing with, are 40 plus years old,,,, and i'll just bet the Kats at AMT back then designed things without sitting in chairs and doing, well, all these other bizarre moves. they are based on a toy premise, here, and don't come up to todays standards, even though that's an arguable point too. I know you like to jump in to any and all discussions, opinions, and all else on the forum.....however I find it truly incredible that everything has to be cut, hacked, sawed, fixed, and critiqued to death , because you seem to have the vision and insight that all the rest of us just don't realize. take a break, maybe by building a kit without micro analyzing EVERYTHING about it, you actually may find it just as much fun as being the self appointed guru of everything plastic.......and lastly, I think you HAVE insulted the builder you refer to that posted his built TEEVEE buggy recently by even mentioning all this in reference to his photos ......as he is almost assured to read this thread at one point, now possibly making him feel slighted that he even dove into this kit without making several modifications to your standards....gee, we just couldn't have him just enjoy a fun build of a vintage model car, now could we..............the ace..........

[Greg Myers]

[Snake45]

Another beautiful build of this model! But tell me, how would the driver get into it? I know I certainly couldn't.

[AC Norton]

Greg, this build of the TEEVEE is superb.....best I have ever seen.....best,,,the ace..........

[Snake45]

SNAKE, you really are one of a kind.......measuring from a chair....to the wall....something about the crotch,,,,do you stay up at night and think up all this stuff, or , do you not realize that models,,,most of which that we are dealing with, are 40 plus years old,,,, and i'll just bet the Kats at AMT back then designed things without sitting in chairs and doing, well, all these other bizarre moves. they are based on a toy premise, here, and don't come up to todays standards, even though that's an arguable point too. I know you like to jump in to any and all discussions, opinions, and all else on the forum.....however I find it truly incredible that everything has to be cut, hacked, sawed, fixed, and critiqued to death , because you seem to have the vision and insight that all the rest of us just don't realize. take a break, maybe by building a kit without micro analyzing EVERYTHING about it, you actually may find it just as much fun as being the self appointed guru of everything plastic.......and lastly, I think you HAVE insulted the builder you refer to that posted his built TEEVEE buggy recently by even mentioning all this in reference to his photos ......as he is almost assured to read this thread at one point, now possibly making him feel slighted that he even dove into this kit without making several modifications to your standards....gee, we just couldn't have him just enjoy a fun build of a vintage model car, now could we..............the ace..........

Wow, within a half-hour I get accused of being an anal rivet-counter AND (in another thread) a "it-looks-good-enough-for-me" modeler. That's pretty amazing!

Again, I meant no insult to any other modeler. That's why I didn't post a link to those pics or mention the guy by name. He built a nice model.

In the end, each of us only has to please HIMSELF in this hobby. I don't see or get upset by a lot of things other people see and obsess over. But some things I see DO bother me enough to know that if I don't fix them, I will never be happy with the finished model. I've built enough "I wish I'd fixed that or not wasted my time" models to know the difference. This is something I'm going to have to fix, or never build this model at all.

But that's just me. And again, I meant NO slight or insult to any other modeler and I apologize if ANYONE took my post that way. Was just commenting to see if anyone else had ever noticed this about this kit, and maybe had suggestions of a good way to fix it. I see a LOT of that kind of helpful advice on this board, you know.

[AC Norton]

......the body for the Teevee buggy was most probably designed to fit with AMTs existing tooling for the Meyers Manx kit, that was issued 3 or 4 years earlier if memory serves. anyhow, that being said, they were certainly not going to make many, if any changes for this newly tooled body to mate with the older tooling in order to market another car kit.  perfection in scaling would not have been the priority here, close, but no cigar would do....because most of us back then were not as model car educated as we are now.......we just were happy to dive in and build one.  as for mods to the dash and such to improve this.....difficult fix, and it may throw other aspects of the build out of whack, making matters worse...just my opinion......the ace........

[Snake45]

 most of us back then were not as model car educated as we are now.......we just were happy to dive in and build one.  as for mods to the dash and such to improve this.....difficult fix, and it may throw other aspects of the build out of whack, making matters worse...just my opinion......the ace........

So true. But my standards are a LITTLE higher today than they were when I was 14, or I would still be slopping on Testor paint with a brush and finishing a build in an afternoon.

And you're right about moving the dash forward throwing other things out of whack. For one obvious one, I won't be able to use the kit top without modifications, if it can be done at all. The windshield will have to be modified (narrowed) too, as will the dash itself. Only other way I can see to address the "room" issue would be to cut the dashboard out, mounting the steering wheel as far forward as the cowl will allow, and then build a new dash underneath the cowl (the cowl would act as a hood for the dashboard, if you're following me).

As I said in the other thread, we all have our own little peccadillos. One of mine is, in model airplanes, I don't care about cockpits nearly as much as nearly everyone else seems to. I'll happily build a model airplane with a black hole for a cockpit if the kit doesn't give you one. BUT I absolutely will not mount that airplane on a "flying" stand unless there's some representation of a pilot in the cockpit...because, you know, an airplane flying along with no pilot would just be stupid.

But, as I said, that's just me....

[Dave Darby]

It's for the shelf, not for actual driving. You don't need to fit into it. Pretty sure that Actually fitting into the car in scale was going to be a concern, they wouldn't have reissued it. In other news, I got me a "Catch the Kat" issue last night molded in metal flake blue.

[AC Norton]

It's for the shelf, not for actual driving. You don't need to fit into it. Pretty sure that Actually fitting into the car in scale was going to be a concern, they wouldn't have reissued it. In other news, I got me a "Catch the Kat" issue last night molded in metal flake blue.

...good for you, Dave....I'm insanely jealous..lol......would love that met. blue buggy myself....nice that someone got one......regards, the ace.......

[Snake45]

It's for the shelf, not for actual driving. You don't need to fit into it. .

Yeah, I know. The ironic thing is that on one detail-oriented airplane board, I've often posted, in response to some debate about the placement of some switch or dial on the instrument panel, things like, "Lighten up, Francis! It's not like you're going to get in the Shrink Ray and then crawl up in the thing and make airplane noises and flip imaginary switches!"

[MGL]

Instead of moving the dash foward have you considered adding 1/4 inch or so to the body and chassis at the point were the front fender joins the rear fender? Of course you would also have to deal with the roof, maybe lean the windsheald back and raise the rear of the roof and tilt it forward, then level the top. I know its more work but the overall proportions may look more correct. But than again I kind of dig the cartoonish look of the original too, especially the big big eye headlights. Either way, build what you want to build, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do.

[AC Norton]

So true. But my standards are a LITTLE higher today than they were when I was 14, or I would still be slopping on Testor paint with a brush and finishing a build in an afternoon.

And you're right about moving the dash forward throwing other things out of whack. For one obvious one, I won't be able to use the kit top without modifications, if it can be done at all. The windshield will have to be modified (narrowed) too, as will the dash itself. Only other way I can see to address the "room" issue would be to cut the dashboard out, mounting the steering wheel as far forward as the cowl will allow, and then build a new dash underneath the cowl (the cowl would act as a hood for the dashboard, if you're following me).

As I said in the other thread, we all have our own little peccadillos. One of mine is, in model airplanes, I don't care about cockpits nearly as much as nearly everyone else seems to. I'll happily build a model airplane with a black hole for a cockpit if the kit doesn't give you one. BUT I absolutely will not mount that airplane on a "flying" stand unless there's some representation of a pilot in the cockpit...because, you know, an airplane flying along with no pilot would just be stupid.

But, as I said, that's just me....

....see what I mean, Snake, you just can't help yourself, can you....I guess none of us are up to your  higher standards, and as adult builders have really learned nothing along the way of  almost 50 years of  building, running for the Testors rack and pouring on the metallic purple right from the bottle....you may mean well, but your delivery and execution of comments always makes it seem the rest are unworthy idiots....oh, and the 'your right about the dash' segment and all,, I assure you I'm right each and everytime I open my yap on this forum...if I really do not know , I ask or await information......but I have to go now, the Pactra red bottle paint is almost dry on my 68 vette, so gotta get the decals ready........

[Craig Irwin]

I'm only guessing, but being very knowledgeable of Dune Buggys my guess is the REAR of the seat needs to be moved back. The "T-Buggys" moved the controls back and the seat was in the Volkswagens back seat area. My guess is that AMT used the Manx chassis without moving the controls, and butchered the body to fit, leaving the seat to far forward.

 

BTW, I'm a rivet counter too.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Craig Irwin

[Snake45]

I'm only guessing, but being very knowledgeable of Dune Buggys my guess is the REAR of the seat needs to be moved back. The "T-Buggys" moved the controls back and the seat was in the Volkswagens back seat area. My guess is that AMT used the Manx chassis without moving the controls, and butchered the body to fit, leaving the seat to far forward.

 

BTW, I'm a rivet counter too.

I suspect you might be right, but moving the rear of the body back looks like work that would far exceed my skill.

The TeeVee is apparently inspired by, though by no means a replica of, the Berry Mini-T. Looking at pics of real ones, I see many similarities, and several differences. But there was at least one other similar body on the market at the time, which the AMT kit is also NOT a copy of.

BTW, I rebuilt a bare-frame dune buggy last year from mostly original parts left over from my first TeeVee kit circa 1969 or '70. I built it all just as instructed, but when I mounted the seats, I found there was no really good place to put them. If they went where the pedals and shifter would seem to indicate, the steering wheel was almost touching the seat. If I moved them back for a proper distance from the steering wheel, you'd have had to be 7 feet tall to reach the pedals (and maybe the shifter, too). I seem to recall commenting in my writeup here that I should have shortened the steering column by at least 1/8".

[Craig Irwin]

If that chassis is from a TV buggy kit than I'm right, on the full size Kelson and Berry Buggys the seat would be where the fuel tank is, the pedal assembly would be about where the front of the seats are, and the shifter is moved to behind the hand brake. 

[chunkypeanutbutter]

I couldn't massage the engine in that kit enough to use, anyways. Everything was crooked.

BTW, are you going to replace the seats, too? They look pretty darn small in this kit, even for buggy buckets.

[Snake45]

If that chassis is from a TV buggy kit than I'm right, on the full size Kelson and Berry Buggys the seat would be where the fuel tank is, the pedal assembly would be about where the front of the seats are, and the shifter is moved to behind the hand brake.

I just checked the new TeeVee instructions, which AFAIR are identical to the originals. This is more or less exactly the way they have you build it as a bare-frame buggy. They do say to omit the hand brake and mount the shifter in the hand brake hole "if using body"--no word about moving the pedals (the kit is of course set up for the Manx body). I had to scratchbuild the front braces for the forward roll bar, as I couldn't make the kit parts work as advertised.

[Snake45]

I couldn't massage the engine in that kit enough to use, anyways. Everything was crooked.

BTW, are you going to replace the seats, too? They look pretty darn small in this kit, even for buggy buckets.

Yeah, I noticed that too, but I did manage to get everything to work, eventually.

You're right, those seats look small. I only used them because I wanted to build the thing using as many original kit parts as I could find, and I had them. (I did have to scratchbuild or scrounge a few other parts.)

[Snake45]

BTW, for anyone interested, here's my Workbench buildup of that ratty old dune buggy:

[Jairus]

The real name for this body is "Berry Mini T".  Google that if you want pics of the real thing.
"Hot Rod Cartoons" Magazine editor in 1970 built one in his garage and featured the progress in various articles in the mag for many issues after.
 

The cockpit is tight to be sure, but I think you might be onto something regarding AMT.  They tend to make old molds work rather than make new molds.  Seems the original Berry Mini T used a slightly longer wheelbase (80") than did the Myers Manx. 
Remember that all those fiberglass 1 to 1  kits required YOU the builder to provide a complete Volkswagon chassis pan and shorten it to fit the body as per instructions.
Ha!
 

Edited August 24, 2015 by Jairus

[tim boyd]

Greg that is a gorgeous, super-sharp looking build.  Congrats!  TIM 

[BIGTRUCK]

I bought it when it came out, never had it before but looking at the job Greg did Im glad I got it , nice job.

[Mr mopar]

Kind of a neat little buggy ,I'll have to get one!