Hi Falutin' idea

[landman]

What would need to be done to stick an Allison V12 in a truck and have it look realistic and plausible? Heavy on the "look" in this case.

[Force]

Well an Allison would never really look realistic and plausable in a truck, the engine was developed and first used in 1930 and was for aircraft use, it was widely used in WW 2 in the P38 Lightning, P40 Warhawk and P51 Mustang among others and runs on gasoline, the engine has a 1710 cui (28 litre) displacement wich is about twice as large as the common truck diesel engines are, the power output for the aircraft engines back in the day was from around 1000 hp up to 2000 hp and it consumes lots of fuel and would not be that economic to use in a truck.
After the war the surplus Allison engines found new uses in drag racing, tractor pulling and boat racing.
But with that I don't say it couldn't be done, it's a model and you can do whatever you like with it and it doesn't need to be realistic and plausable. 
Even the truck manufacturers did some research back in the 50's and 60's and put gas turbine engines in trucks, they were not that economical either but they still tried to see if it would work. 

Edited October 25, 2015 by Force

[Mike77]

The USAF experimented with a similar idea and just kept going  ...

 

[Petetrucker07]

Hey, if just want in something that looks good, I say go for it. If the Detroit V12 fit in a truck, why wouldn't the Allison. I'm sure you can make it look right. Heck, your makin your own V12 anyway. Go for it man.

[DRIPTROIT 71]

If you wanted to build a custom show truck, there are no rules. I'm not sure of the rules on drag trucks, racing trucks or tractor pullers, but that might be an option as well.I don't know how things are in Canada, but in North Carolina, we have been known to build all kinds of configurations in the 1:1 that serve no real purpose other than looking cool. I had considered this myself, but have too many other irons in the fire. So, go for it! I would really like to see this build come to pass! I have the engine if you need one.

[landman]

I was just batting ideas around. Now that one might gel. Not sure what I'd put it in. Would almost have to be a cabover or an old wide nosed Kenworth.

[lapazleo]

Hey, if just want in something that looks good, I say go for it. If the Detroit V12 fit in a truck, why wouldn't the Allison. I'm sure you can make it look right. Heck, your makin your own V12 anyway. Go for it man.

Actually the allison v 12 is physicaly much larger than a detroit v 12. The detroit v 12 is a whisker under 14 litres the same width and height as an 8v71 and a little longer than a 6 71. As far as the allison goes Tyrone Malone put one mid engine a coe freightliner many years ago as a wheelstander. Last I knew it belongs to Gary Riese as well as the Super boss and other Malone stuff . Certainly would be a neat project.

[Superpeterbilt]

I dont know about realistic and plausable, but I did this.

 

Edited October 25, 2015 by Superpeterbilt

[landman]

So an Allison in a road going truck isn't so crazy after all.

[Superpeterbilt]

The Tyrone Malone truck was called Defiance

[Force]

Just for the record, Tyrone Malone did not build the Defiance, he bought it from the original builder Jerald McBee from Oregon back in the early 80's.
Before Malone bought it and painted it pink it was brown with yellow, red and white stripes.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Force

[Mike77]

[kilrathy10]

Cool idea either way......

Nice pics, Boys....

[Tesla]

Pat,

Here's more inspiration for you...a 24 cylinder Detroit with twelve blowers!

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1109-supercharged-24-cylinder-engine/

Edited October 27, 2015 by Tesla

[landman]

I'm not looking to do a dragster, just a regular hauler with a surprise under the hood. Some of those you are showing me are wicked though.

 

[landman]

Well, I have one now. remains to be seen where it'll end up.

[Aaronw]

There was a 1950s Kenworth built with an even larger 2181 cubic inch Hall Scott V-12 (the Allison is "only" 1710 cubic inches). Nobody seems to have much information on it, but there is a photo showing it is possible if difficult to squeeze such a monster into a working truck. The caption shows 600hp but elsewhere I've seen claims this engine could produce up to 900 horse power.

http://www.hallscottengines.com/Gallery__3_Comm_l_Trucks.html

[Old Albion]

I remember reading about the Kenworth with the V12 Hall Scott, I think it was a topic on the ATHS forum.  Anyway if I remember rightly the truck was the only one fitted with this engine and it was by special request from the owner.  It was used to haul a tanker trailer over the mountains in the western states.  The owner apparently wanted a truck that would fly up the grades??  The hood was made an extra 12" long to accommodate the engine.  Apparently the truck caught fire and was a complete right off.  I saved some photos for a possible project in the future.  The first photo shows the owner at the wheel.  I believe the guy leaning against the truck was the Hall Scott Field Service Engineer and the guy in the suit well may be the Hall Scott sales rep, or Kenworth representative.  Who knows?

[dad vader]

The V-12 Detroit engine is basically 2 6-V blocks and cranks bolted back to back. They are actually two separate engines bolted together,using the same fuel system. Detroit also offered a V-16 which was used in some earlier small EMD switcher locomotives.It was made up of 2 8-V's bolted together in the same manor. Bolting two engines together in this way can only be done with a two stroke engine. Also Detroit engines are offered in both right had and left hand rotations. Which again can only be offered with the same 2 stroke design. If a V-12 Detroit would fit I am pretty sure an Allison V-12 would fit. Cummins also made a V-12 diesel that had 1710 CID. However I have never seen one in a highway type truck, but did have the misfortune of working on several of them in some 60 ton Euclid dump trucks, in the local mills when I worked for the local Cummins distributor.

[Aaronw]

A 12v71 is half the displacement of the Allison engine (852 vs 1710).

 

Poking around it appears there were a number of post war trucks built using military surplus engines. Allison aircraft engines, and Ford GAA 1100cid V-8s (late war Sherman tank engine) were cheap and plentiful in the 1950s. Like the Hall Scott V-12 truck details are scanty approaching legend.  

 

[Force]

The 12V-71 has the engine block casted in one piece and has a one piece crank, the heads are two straight six heads (one for each side), so it's not two V6 engines bolted together.
The 12V-92 has four 3 cylinder heads two for each side), and the 16V-71 and 16V-92 has four 4 cylinder heads so they might look like there are two engines bolted together but I think the engine blocks are one piece on those too.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Force

[highway]

I was actually going to try this idea as a part of a CBP on another forum thanks to a couple crazy friends that were also working on trucks for the CBP and we were going to form our own little company in the process.  The "boss" was actually going to mount two of the Allisons in his custom sleeper, and me and the other friend were going to have ours under the hood of our customs. The two biggest bits of advice I can offer is 1: with a custom, anything is possible and 2: make sure you design the truck around the engine! I had to drop the Allison idea from mine because by the time the three of us came up with the idea, I already had my frame and cab bits in (very expensive) paint and the Allison wouldn't fit without modifications that I was wasn't willing to destroy the work already done.

The rest of the build was already to this stage when I tried to fit the Allison.

[Aaronw]

Matt, if you haven't found an engine for that thing and still want something different, apparently the Ford GAA V-8 engine used in the M4 Sherman and M26 Pershing tanks was similar to the Merlin, but was more advanced. If you cut the that Merlin down to a V8 size maybe It would fit.

Some neat stuff about the GAA here, including a photo of a 1970 Mustang that some nut managed to cram one of these beasts into.

http://www.fordgaaengine.com/

Edited January 6, 2016 by Aaronw

[highway]

Matt, if you haven't found an engine for that thing and still want something different, apparently the Ford GAA V-8 engine used in the M4 Sherman and M26 Pershing tanks was similar to the Merlin, but was more advanced. If you cut the that Merlin down to a V8 size maybe It would fit.

Some neat stuff about the GAA here, including a photo of a 1970 Mustang that some nut managed to cram one of these beasts into.

http://www.fordgaaengine.com/

I do like that idea Aaron, because I haven't nailed a sure choice down yet. The original idea was the Buzzen Dozen Detroit 12V71, but haven't gotten one yet. Then I was just going to use the Detroit Series 60 from Italeri's Pete kits and even through the idea around of the Cat 3406 from the Revell Snap Pete and KW or a 3408 from the Revell AG KWs, but a little too "ordinary" for the rest of the truck.  I even tried to make a Detroit 16V71 from two spare 8V71s, but that turned out much like the Allison. 

Life and a couple of moves got in the way a lot, but as I have been settling into my new apartment, I did find I have an extra floor for the Italeri Fords and finally found the box with my scratchbuilding supplies, so that extra floor might just get modified so the 16V71 will fit.