What's next for the automobile?

[Jairus]

Here is an idea for stretching your brain. With the sudden increase in fuel costs, large vehicles are no longer selling. GM has stopped building the Hummer and it doesn't look good for the Lincoln Navigator or Ford Expedition. Now is the time to pick up that used 8 year old Eddy Bauer Explorer with the heated leather seats!!! Wow, saw one for two grand yesterday!

However, sales of tiny economy cars and even electric cars has boomed! The industry is working full tilt to produce existing small economy cars while developing more economical hybrid power plants for future models.

So, the V8 is probably going to go the way of the Duesenberg and we are going to seeing more V6 Mustangs now than ever before. (Wonder if the Camaro will still be built?)

I suspect that we are going to see more four cylinder hybrid power trains being installed into vehicles. The large behemoth SUV's we are so accustomed to seeing on the highways and byways will be relegated to government and commercial use almost exclusively.

Use of aluminum and plastics will increase but safety concerns will keep the applications to non structural.

Hoods will rarely open as engines become completely non-tinker-able.

Red light neutral engine will become the norm and some cars will completely shut off at the red light inorder to conserve. I also suspect that a wire controlled throttle will become accepted across the board so that the computer will control acceleration thus eliminating completely the dreaded "jack rabbit" start.

Liberal minds in city government, with altruistic motives, will choose weekends when entire downtowns are closed to all automobile traffic forcing the public to do their shopping by public transportation.

Some technical innovators will try to build electric VW Beetles and someone will create a retro-fit Hybrid power train for classic cars. (It might not burn rubber anymore but it can still be driven to the coast with the top down!)

These are just a few of the ideas I am pretty sure will happen and I am betting some of you have more.....

[Harold]

I remember in the seventies when the death knell was being sounded for the V-8, but with generous does of technology (better machining processes, electronic controls) and generous amounts of cash, engines today are cleaner and more efficient. It's not that an engine has eight cylinders, but it's what the engine is put into. A three ton vehicle is not going to produce any kind of mpg numbers worth writing home about. The auto industry should have seen the writing on the wall concerning world events five years ago and benn ready with a whole crop of more efficient vehicles now. Instead, they've acted the ostrich, and continued to produce (to quote the late Ken Purdy), "a turgid sea of jelly-bodied clunkers". So, the chickens have come home to roost, and the banshee is in the front yard, screaming all night for blood. I have no sympathy for them at all, and even less for those that drive Detroit's behemoths. What to do? Smaller V-8's (three to five liters in displacement) and a return to rationally sized automobiles- nothing greater than 3500# need apply, and fer cryin' out loud, make them look like something other than children's toys (Smart, Prius) or tremen-induced nightmares (CTS, G6,- hey, how are they naming cars now? Do they just drop a bowl of Alpha-Bits on the floor, pick up random handfuls and call it a day?, Edge [looks like a suppository with wheels and a chrome sewer grate slung across the front]). As for hybrids, I might buy one if I could afford it, but my income level relegates me to whatever used bargains I can find in the classifieds. And where shall I plug in my electric car, how many kw/h does it take to charge, can I go further than Saginaw and back? Electrics still have a long way to go- the batteries weigh so much and the range is iffy to the point where you end up with a vehicle so compromised you wouldn't want it if it had an internal combustion engine. For now, rational size and smaller engines are the ticket.

[gasman]

electric cars doesn't mean it won't be fast. I think I need to show you the Tesla, 0-60 in 4 seconds. 250 miles on a charge. they say the batteries will last 10 years, or 100,000 miiles, its not cheap tho. starts at $90,000

The Camaro is still coming, but GM is debating putting an optional turbo 4cyl in it. which will get 30 MPG's and 250 horsepower. (according to what I've read), at launch early next year the car will have only a V6 and V8 option. Ford also looking into putting there ecoboost turbo 4cyl in the Mustang.

and modern cars are still as easy to work on as cars made 40 years ago. look at the people my age (i'm 23) with there modified VW GTI's, and Subaru WRX who do most the work themselves. I do majority of the maintenance work on my 01 4cyl Ranger and I've never encountered and major difficulties with it. new cars are still not hard to work on. you just need to do some research before you do it.

[Eshaver]

Harold I agree with you completely Years ago "The Greenie Weenies" were bemoaning a former battery manufacturing plant that was in houston near where the Hardy Street toll road is toiday. I asked on of them where the heck people would send spent lead or other hazardous materals that comprise batteries in the future? Since the charicter had no answer, I calmly lit yet another cigarette and went on my way, that was in 1978 . Ed Shaver

[Brendan]

electric cars doesn't mean it won't be fast. I think I need to show you the Tesla, 0-60 in 4 seconds. 250 miles on a charge. they say the batteries will last 10 years, or 100,000 miiles, its not cheap tho. starts at $90,000

The Camaro is still coming, but GM is debating putting an optional turbo 4cyl in it. which will get 30 MPG's and 250 horsepower. (according to what I've read), at launch early next year the car will have only a V6 and V8 option. Ford also looking into putting there ecoboost turbo 4cyl in the Mustang.

and modern cars are still as easy to work on as cars made 40 years ago. look at the people my age (i'm 23) with there modified VW GTI's, and Subaru WRX who do most the work themselves. I do majority of the maintenance work on my 01 4cyl Ranger and I've never encountered and major difficulties with it. new cars are still not hard to work on. you just need to do some research before you do it.

There are two major downsides with the Tessla Roadster. The starting point is actually more like $120,000. The batteries only last about 5 years. The replacement for the battery is close to $60,000. Plus they're already sold out of their production for the next two years (I believe). I know someone who works for the company. It's a really nice car, but you have to be richer than rich to afford it as well as afford the maintenance on it. For that price you can buy a nice house.

[bobss396]

The wild part of the saga is that the Big 3 and others making gas guzzling monsters didn't see the handwriting on the wall until they ran smack into it.

I was looking for cars since January, trying to justify a nice V6 powered American car. In the end, I just was not able to do it and settled on a used 2.5S Altima last month. 4-bangers are the way to go if you want decent gas mileage. Hybrids now have a great market and I think we'll be seeing some turbocharged diesels within the next year or so.

Bob

[gasman]

There are two major downsides with the Tessla Roadster. The starting point is actually more like $120,000. The batteries only last about 5 years. The replacement for the battery is close to $60,000. Plus they're already sold out of their production for the next two years (I believe). I know someone who works for the company. It's a really nice car, but you have to be richer than rich to afford it as well as afford the maintenance on it. For that price you can buy a nice house.

I just showed the Tesla as an example that we are not seeing the end of fast fun to drive cars. but it will be a while before we see this kind of performance for under $25,000 with tha kind of efficiency.

Hyrbids do have a problem right now though. there not all that efficient on the highway. at 60 + MPH. your better of with a Cobalt or a gas only Civic then a Prius. on the last episode of Top Gear. they had a Prius going around the Top Gear test track at full speed. (as fast as it would go), and it was followed by a BMW M3. going just as fast the Prius. they where thrashing the Prius and they only got 17 MPG (Yes you read that right.), and the BMW got 19 MPG. They also mentioned the polution nightmare that are the Prius's battery's.

I've owned three vehicles in my life (1995 Geo Prizm, 2001 Hyundai Accent (i'm missing the 40 MPG of that one right now), and a 2001 Ford Ranger. all have been 4cyl. and I don't see myself owning anything but a 4cyl for many years to come. with the current gas prices. I'm currently looking at a Cobalt SS to replace my Ranger.

[CAL]

I just showed the Tesla as an example that we are not seeing the end of fast fun to drive cars. but it will be a while before we see this kind of performance for under $25,000 with tha kind of efficiency.

Hyrbids do have a problem right now though. there not all that efficient on the highway. at 60 + MPH. your better of with a Cobalt or a gas only Civic then a Prius. on the last episode of Top Gear. they had a Prius going around the Top Gear test track at full speed. (as fast as it would go), and it was followed by a BMW M3. going just as fast the Prius. they where thrashing the Prius and they only got 17 MPG (Yes you read that right.), and the BMW got 19 MPG. They also mentioned the polution nightmare that are the Prius's battery's.

I've owned three vehicles in my life (1995 Geo Prizm, 2001 Hyundai Accent (i'm missing the 40 MPG of that one right now), and a 2001 Ford Ranger. all have been 4cyl. and I don't see myself owning anything but a 4cyl for many years to come. with the current gas prices. I'm currently looking at a Cobalt SS to replace my Ranger.

I was just thinking about that too, "The Prius has no redeeming qualities, none." The G-wiz is another wonderful piece of ######.

They also say that a Porsche Turbo is so efficiant that in some places like L.A. the exhaust is cleaner than the air going in.

I too, have a car with a 4cly that also had a V6 option. The 4 is a HO and very good even at this altitude. Besides getting better mileage it is also like 350 lbs lighter in the front and will out handle the V6.

You know I don't have the answers, if I did I would be a billionaire, but I know what doesn't work. I don't know why everybody falls for face value on these green hybirds.

Even Ethanol is an illusion, if it were so good everyone would be doing it. What they don't tell you is it takes 4 gallons of diesel to make 1 gallon of ethanol.

This is all very reminiscent of the early 1970s and the big three largley built junk for the next 30 years after.

Moreover there is nothing wrong with small engines. Some of the most powerfull engines are the smallest. Look at a 70s F1 turbo, 1.2 liters 1000 bhp in race trim up to 1600 bhp in full qualifying trim.

I believe the future is in some kind of fusion.

Edited June 26, 2008 by CAL

[Darrell Gwinn]

I think people underestimate some of the V8s, they actually get pretty good mileage. My carburated 305 '87 monte carlo gets better gas mileage than my moms '99 blazer with a v6... how does that work? I dont have a problem with 4 cylinders, they are good on gas, except around here there are quite a few hills to go up... thats when they guzzle gas, some of them just dont have the power. But anywho, i dont think gas prices will ever stop me from getting v8 cars, if i cant drive them ill just walk or ride a bike...lol

[Harry P.]

I can't predict the future, so I have no idea if the V8 is headed to extinction, but if gas prices continue to rise (and I assume they will), I see less and less demand for V8s, so consequently less and less production of them. Carmakers have to adjust to the reality of the day...sure, they make a huge profit on every Mega-SUV they sell, but these days people are finally waking up and realizing that driving a 6,000 pound SUV that seats 8 just to go to the grocery store is nuts.

If I were King of the World here's what I'd do:

1. Immediately hike the federal CAFE standards big time. 35 mpg for cars, 25 mpg for other vehicles 5,000 lbs. or more as a start...higher standards every 10 years or so. If a vehicle can't meet the standard, then that vehicle can't be sold. Period. No more Hummers and other ridiculous cartoon cars like that. Nobody needs a Hummer as transportation...only their ego does.

2. Immediately implement a SERIOUS, fast-track government program in conjunction with the automakers to develop a reliable, affordable and dependable alt-fuel technology...hydrogen being my first choice. Also immediately begin to build the infrastructure (pipelines, "gas" stations, etc.) to accomodate the new technology, on a national scale. This would not only actually lessen our dependence on oil, it would create thousands of new jobs right here in America...not in China.

3. The money that this massive project would require woyuld come from the money we currently are wasting in Iraq. I'd end our involvement in Iraq immediately and stop the financial bleeding our involvement there is causing, and divert that money to improving OUR country...not someone else's. We don't have any inherent right to dictate national poicy to any other sovereign nation any more than they have to dictate policy to us. If they descend into civil war and wind up annihilating themselves, well, too bad. It's not our problem to solve...it's theirs.

If our government took the oil issue seriously, we could solve the problem within our lifetimes. The problem is that Big Oil has WAY too much influence in Washington, so common-sense solutions will probably NEVER happen.

(Oops...sorry about the "political" viewpoint. I know we aren't supposed to do that anymore... )

[CAL]

If our government took the oil issue seriously, we could solve the problem within our lifetimes. The problem is that Big Oil has WAY too much influence in Washington, so common-sense solutions will probably NEVER happen.

(Oops...sorry about the "political" viewpoint. I know we aren't supposed to do that anymore... )

That is absolutely 100% inaccurate and wrong.

If Big Oil had that much influence in Washington we'd be self-sufficaint with our own oil. The truth of the matter is we are sitting on trillions of barrles of oil that is off-limits to exploration. And it's off-limits by Congress.

If we had our own oil we could control pricing, but right now the Saudies are controlling pricing. Our weak dollar which also another big goverment mistake is compounding problems. And we have big big problems here.

We don't make anything, our industrial base is virutally nonexistant. We're sell off our assets at an alarming rate for discount prices, and we barrow foreign money to keep going. Before long the wealthest nation on Earth is going to have all it's wealth everywhere else but here, and that is a huge problem. And whatever is left here will be owned by foreign countries.

Some what getting off here, but Russia has bigger oil deposits than all of the Mid East. It's just not that accessable and the infrastructure isn't in place... yet.

Edited June 26, 2008 by CAL

[Brendan]

I just showed the Tesla as an example that we are not seeing the end of fast fun to drive cars. but it will be a while before we see this kind of performance for under $25,000 with tha kind of efficiency.

Hyrbids do have a problem right now though. there not all that efficient on the highway. at 60 + MPH. your better of with a Cobalt or a gas only Civic then a Prius. on the last episode of Top Gear. they had a Prius going around the Top Gear test track at full speed. (as fast as it would go), and it was followed by a BMW M3. going just as fast the Prius. they where thrashing the Prius and they only got 17 MPG (Yes you read that right.), and the BMW got 19 MPG. They also mentioned the polution nightmare that are the Prius's battery's.

I've owned three vehicles in my life (1995 Geo Prizm, 2001 Hyundai Accent (i'm missing the 40 MPG of that one right now), and a 2001 Ford Ranger. all have been 4cyl. and I don't see myself owning anything but a 4cyl for many years to come. with the current gas prices. I'm currently looking at a Cobalt SS to replace my Ranger.

I'm wasn't trying to discredit you. I was just showing that for what the car is, you don't really get much for what you pay. I thought Toyota had a Hybrid Sports car out that was supposed to be rather quick on acceleration, though I'm not real sure.

Yes, I did see that episode. I thought that it was absolutely hilarious.

Yes, I do agree with you on the 4-cylinder motors. I have a Suburu WRX Turbo. The cars weighs in over 3400 pounds and I'm getting close to 35- 40 miles to the gallon on long trips and produces 250+HP and 230 ft lb of torque. Most of the cars I've owned have been either 4-cylinder or 6-cylinder.

I read somewhere in a racing magazine that the best engine combination was a 4-cylinder turbo. Some tuning company did a big study on the efficiency of motors and said that was the best combination for both horse power and torque for the amount of weight and fuel efficiency it could get.

[CAL]

I'm wasn't trying to discredit you. I was just showing that for what the car is, you don't really get much for what you pay. I thought Toyota had a Hybrid Sports car out that was supposed to be rather quick on acceleration, though I'm not real sure.

Yes, I did see that episode. I thought that it was absolutely hilarious.

Yes, I do agree with you on the 4-cylinder motors. I have a Suburu WRX Turbo. The cars weighs in over 3400 pounds and I'm getting close to 35- 40 miles to the gallon on long trips and produces 250+HP and 230 ft lb of torque. Most of the cars I've owned have been either 4-cylinder or 6-cylinder.

I read somewhere in a racing magazine that the best engine combination was a 4-cylinder turbo. Some tuning company did a big study on the efficiency of motors and said that was the best combination for both horse power and torque for the amount of weight and fuel efficiency it could get.

The G-wiz is even more funny when it hits the table.

There is nothing wrong with four-cyl engines other than they are hidiously out of balance and run rough than a V.

[Guest Davkin]

Immediately implement a SERIOUS, fast-track government program in conjunction

Fast-track government is an oxymoron Harry.

David

[m408]

Am I missing something or isn't performance, be it, acceleration, top speed, or fuel economy, based on the old horse power vs. weight formula? Motor cycles accelerate great, have high top ends, and get super mpgs.

No, not very good for taking the family to grandmas for Xmas or the weekly grocer run, but a very good means of daily transportation. I know, bad weather complications, but an enclosed three wheeler could be the answer.

Side by side or front and back two seater? Hinged fiber glass body for exit and entry with heater and wipers? Snow tire adaptability? My mind is racing with the possibilities. I'll bet that some of you guys could come up with a design.

[sfhess]

I believe the future is in some kind of fusion.

Well, my 2007 Ford Fusion has a 4-cylinder engine and a 5-speed manual transmission. It has decent performance, handles well and gets about 28 MPG in mixed driving.

[CAL]

Well, my 2007 Ford Fusion has a 4-cylinder engine and a 5-speed manual transmission. It has decent performance, handles well and gets about 28 MPG in mixed driving.

See

Which is basically same thing as my Mazda 6. 4 cyl 5 spd man.

[sfhess]

See

Which is basically same thing as my Mazda 6. 4 cyl 5 spd man.

....but much better looking......

[HotRodaSaurus]

Back at the birth of the automobile only the real well off could afford a car, in the UK the goverment is pushing up fuel taxes and vehicle taxes to the point that only the well off will eventually be able to afford to drive a fair sized car, taking us back to our beginnings.

A friend with a Range Rover now pays £440 per year in road tax alone.

The idea is to get us back onto public transport but when a rail ticket for a journey of 30 miles for work purpose can cost £34 you can see how difficult it is to get rid of your vehicle. A friend (1person) is going on holiday, a distance of 240miles and will use approx £60 worth of fuel. A train ticket there and back will be £77 for 1 person. For a family of 4 that would be over £280 for a trip that will cost under a £100 in a car, then you have the convenience of being able to travel when and where you want when you get there.

So it's car or public transport, You decide! or rather the £ or $ in your pocket must decide.

4 Cylinder cars? we have had them for years

We sure need to do something about cars on the road, our little island is getting swamped so smaller cars are the answer but I sure will miss the old big cars comfort.

[CAL]

....but much better looking......

that is true too! Especailly in a Sport like mine with ground effects and a wing The Fusion is pretty squared off.

I have been very happy with my 6 and wouldn't trade if for any other like sedan in it's class.

[sdrodder]

Some technical innovators will try to build electric VW Beetles and someone will create a retro-fit Hybrid power train for classic cars. (It might not burn rubber anymore but it can still be driven to the coast with the top down!)

I am not trying to sound like a total idiot but thats one thing i will not do. I am gettin a 58 chevy truck with a 235 in 2 years which will be my daily driver. What poeple need to realize is you can get up to 20 25 mpgs out of this little motor. I talked with one guy he built a gmc inliner with 5 carbs yes 5 and he gets 22 mpg. As for those 70s gas eater motors. I think they will die out now. But one thing i will not do is add a newer hybrid motor in an oll classic because of all the computors. If one wire is pinched the car wont drive anymore. Just my opinion.

[CAL]

Some technical innovators will try to build electric VW Beetles and someone will create a retro-fit Hybrid power train for classic cars. (It might not burn rubber anymore but it can still be driven to the coast with the top down!)

I am not trying to sound like a total idiot but thats one thing i will not do. I am gettin a 58 chevy truck with a 235 in 2 years which will be my daily driver. What poeple need to realize is you can get up to 20 25 mpgs out of this little motor. I talked with one guy he built a gmc inliner with 5 carbs yes 5 and he gets 22 mpg. As for those 70s gas eater motors. I think they will die out now. But one thing i will not do is add a newer hybrid motor in an oll classic because of all the computors. If one wire is pinched the car wont drive anymore. Just my opinion.

[Jairus]

Yeah, I figured there would be a few that would liken that suggestion to an abolishment of the 2nd amendment. But there are a lot of hot rodders putting modern engines in vintage cars! Let's face it, a modern engine starts every time, runs clean and is way more efficient and has greater h.p. than an old wheezy 302 with a two barrel. Most old engines leak oil, spit fumes and have vacuum leaks. Not everybody can afford to have an engine correctly overhauled or can replace gaskets or find flaws.

The logical solution is to retrofit a vintage car with a modern power-plant be it a DOHC Cobra motor or a turbo hybrid 3 liter four.

We saw the same articles in Hot Rod Magazine all through 1973 and 1974. History has a habit of repeating it-self.....

[Harold]

Jairus, we're also going to see scammers and fast- buck artists trying to sell all manner of 'fuel- saving devices'. Remember the Fish carbeurator? An alleged 100 mpg from a regular V-8. He took the money and drank himself to death. What people fail to grasp when they're being bamboozled is how things work. Gas engines need a mixture of 14 parts air to one part gas. Too lean, and you'll burn holes in the top of your pistons. Somehow he became lionized as an example of a "Big Oil Conspiracy". Yeah, right. He was a flim- flam artist, just like the drag queen with the Dale (remember that one?). A non- auto related example of how people can be sucked into scams is the tale of the guy who started Photomat. He convinced people that he had a process, using magnets, that could pull gold dust out of dirt. Many allegedly smart folks fell for it, neglecting the fact that gold is a non-ferrous metal. So when some yutz has an infomercial at 3:00 in the morning telling you some gadget will turn your 11 mpg behemoth into a fuel miser that will make a Smart car green with envy, don't fall for it.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Harold

[Nick F40]

There are two major downsides with the Tessla Roadster. The starting point is actually more like $120,000. The batteries only last about 5 years. The replacement for the battery is close to $60,000. Plus they're already sold out of their production for the next two years (I believe). I know someone who works for the company. It's a really nice car, but you have to be richer than rich to afford it as well as afford the maintenance on it. For that price you can buy a nice house.

EXACTLY for why I'm not sold on it and why I'm not a fan of that ###### although it does look nice.

And you all make fun of the imports that we like, well, at least the kind I like, look stock, are FAST on and off the track, and get good mileage, BEAT THAT.