Does Tamiya Yellow cap Laquer Thinner have Leveler/Retarder in it?

[jchrisf]

I've been having a hard time getting smooth paint out of decanted Tamiya TS spray paints.  I use a little yellow cap Tamiya thinner (but also tried without).  Does it have a leveler/retarder in it?  If not is there anything I can add?  I use a Paache H and have tried pressures between 18 and 30 psi.

[64Comet404]

Tamiya does have a retarder available for its acrylic line, but I haven’t seen it out yet for lacquers. With the LP series out now, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a retarder in the line soon. 

Btw, what tip are you using on your H? If you are using the #3, you may want to change it to the #5 for better paint flow before the thinner flashes. Hope this helps.

[GeeBee]

No, for that, you need to bottle with the orange top

[jchrisf]

3 hours ago, GeeBee said:

No, for that, you need to bottle with the orange top

Is there anything I can add to my Yellow Top to retard it?

3 hours ago, 64Comet404 said:

Tamiya does have a retarder available for its acrylic line, but I haven’t seen it out yet for lacquers. With the LP series out now, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a retarder in the line soon. 

Btw, what tip are you using on your H? If you are using the #3, you may want to change it to the #5 for better paint flow before the thinner flashes. Hope this helps.

I've been using the #1 tip because I notice most custom paints recommend small nozzles for body paint... and even the #1 is pretty big.

[GeeBee]

8 minutes ago, jchrisf said:

Is there anything I can add to my Yellow Top to retard it?

Yes, 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Butyl-Cellosolve-2-butoxyethanol-Purity-500ml/dp/B00CF2JMDM

[GeeBee]

10 minutes ago, jchrisf said:

I've been using the #1 tip because I notice most custom paints recommend small nozzles for body paint... and even the #1 is pretty big.

I use the Paasche H and the VL, I would forget using the #1 set up, and go to for the #3 instead, for some paints like synthetic enamel I've had to go to the #5 set up.

[jchrisf]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Yes, 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Butyl-Cellosolve-2-butoxyethanol-Purity-500ml/dp/B00CF2JMDM

Thanks Geoff!

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

I use the Paasche H and the VL, I would forget using the #1 set up, and go to for the #3 instead, for some paints like synthetic enamel I've had to go to the #5 set up.

Thanks again Geoff!  I have a VL too but have never used it.  Which do you like better?  I got mine on sale for $25 at Hobby Lobby and couldn't pass it up.

[64Comet404]

7 hours ago, GeeBee said:

No, for that, you need to bottle with the orange top

I haven’t seen the retarder type thinner yet here. I was at my local shop today, however, and Tamiya does make a separate lacquer retarder. Item number is 87198**260

[Don Sikora II]

Mr Hobby sells retarder for lacquer, and it might be slightly easier to find in the US. Haven’t tried it with Tamiya spray, but it’s magic with Mr Hobby lacquer brush paint. 

[Dave G.]

The #3 tip on the H is the honey zone imo and most compressors will keep up with it. The number 5 can start spitting if your compressor won't flow enough ( just watch the working pressure on your gauge as you do a test shoot), especially tankless compressors may not keep up with that #5 tip, the pressure drops out and next thing you're shooting gubers. I use an 8 gal portable compressor anyway but non the less pretty much never have seen the need to move to the #5 tip except to try it out, course that depends too how you thin your paint. I've shot enamel even on my Badger with .25 needle, just thin it 1/1. Sprays fine, beautiful really. Non the less with the H, imo, the #3 needle is the sweet one that does most things right. Still, I can understand using the #1 for thin lacquer and for washes too. Or the #5 for something thick.

Mr Leveling thinner, which is lacquer thinner, has retarder in it fwiw. A lot of people use it and like it too.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Dave G.

[GeeBee]

18 hours ago, jchrisf said:

Thanks Geoff!

Thanks again Geoff!  I have a VL too but have never used it.  Which do you like better?  I got mine on sale for $25 at Hobby Lobby and couldn't pass it up.

It really depends on what I'm using, for lacquer paints i find the VL with the #3 set up gives me the best finish, for sythentic enamels like those I used for the Trabant the H with the #5 set up was the only way I could get a decent finish.

[GeeBee]

16 hours ago, 64Comet404 said:

I haven’t seen the retarder type thinner yet here. I was at my local shop today, however, and Tamiya does make a separate lacquer retarder. Item number is 87198**260

I've not seen the retarder yet, I bought the Tamiya thinners in Hong Kong last year when it wasn't yet available in the U.K.at the time.

[64Comet404]

21 hours ago, jchrisf said:

I've been using the #1 tip because I notice most custom paints recommend small nozzles for body paint... and even the #1 is pretty big.

I always used a #3 for spraying most hobby paints, and a #5 if I was spraying paint with a heavy metal flake content. The only time I use a #1 tip is when I need to spray inks for posters.

[jchrisf]

8 hours ago, 64Comet404 said:

I always used a #3 for spraying most hobby paints, and a #5 if I was spraying paint with a heavy metal flake content. The only time I use a #1 tip is when I need to spray inks for posters.

 

11 hours ago, Dave G. said:

The #3 tip on the H is the honey zone imo and most compressors will keep up with it. The number 5 can start spitting if your compressor won't flow enough ( just watch the working pressure on your gauge as you do a test shoot), especially tankless compressors may not keep up with that #5 tip, the pressure drops out and next thing you're shooting gubers. I use an 8 gal portable compressor anyway but non the less pretty much never have seen the need to move to the #5 tip except to try it out, course that depends too how you thin your paint. I've shot enamel even on my Badger with .25 needle, just thin it 1/1. Sprays fine, beautiful really. Non the less with the H, imo, the #3 needle is the sweet one that does most things right. Still, I can understand using the #1 for thin lacquer and for washes too. Or the #5 for something thick.

Mr Leveling thinner, which is lacquer thinner, has retarder in it fwiw. A lot of people use it and like it too.

How far do you all open your nozzle on the H when you shot lacquer on the car body?

9 hours ago, GeeBee said:

It really depends on what I'm using, for lacquer paints i find the VL with the #3 set up gives me the best finish, for sythentic enamels like those I used for the Trabant the H with the #5 set up was the only way I could get a decent finish.

I'll have to give the VL a try soon... was trying to master the H for smooth body painting first but haven't figured that out yet... I might have to put it aside and grab the VL

[64Comet404]

31 minutes ago, jchrisf said:

How far do you all open your nozzle on the H when you shot lacquer on the car body?

I usually lock the needle assembly in place so that there is about 1/16” between the back of the needle holder and the flange on the needle assembly, though I do adjust the location of the needle based on how well the paint is flowing. The key is to practice until you achieve results that you like. Scrap bodies, pop cans, paper, whatever helps you get used to controlling the brush.

As for the VL, I would suggest practicing with the H until you become comfortable with spraying. The VL is a double-action airbrush (adjustable for both paint and airflow), so It adds in another layer of complexity while you paint.

[martinfan5]

11 hours ago, GeeBee said:

I've not seen the retarder yet, I bought the Tamiya thinners in Hong Kong last year when it wasn't yet available in the U.K.at the time.

I believe that is being done for the LP Series , its a fairly new item.

[jchrisf]

12 hours ago, 64Comet404 said:

I usually lock the needle assembly in place so that there is about 1/16” between the back of the needle holder and the flange on the needle assembly, though I do adjust the location of the needle based on how well the paint is flowing. The key is to practice until you achieve results that you like. Scrap bodies, pop cans, paper, whatever helps you get used to controlling the brush.

As for the VL, I would suggest practicing with the H until you become comfortable with spraying. The VL is a double-action airbrush (adjustable for both paint and airflow), so It adds in another layer of complexity while you paint.

That's interesting where you lock it in place.  I've not heard of doing that before.  I've always thought that needle stuck up too high.  Is this a common practice?

[64Comet404]

1 hour ago, jchrisf said:

That's interesting where you lock it in place.  I've not heard of doing that before.  I've always thought that needle stuck up too high.  Is this a common practice?

It's more a matter of feel than anything else. The needle needs to be in the airflow of the brush to work, but too high (or too low)  could cause the tip to collect paint and lead to spattering. I don't use the distance as a hard and fast rule, but more as a guideline. What you are seeing is where I locked the needle assembly after cleaning, so I will need to tweak the adjustments before I start to paint a model.

[Dave G.]

I used to do the same as 64 C and leave a gap to that flange to center the tip in the air stream. But these days I don't pay too much attention to it honestly. As to flow, I go for the flow I want to see lol !!! I do open up more in the last coat though. But to be fair I more use my Badger 200 than the H for clear lacquer, not that it matters all that much really. I have used the H and the fine needle but prefer the atomization of my 200. In the end if the paint flows right it actually doesn't matter, except with a side cup I can get my 200 down to 14 psi with the fine tip for small parts and or thin coats. For a body the 200 and medium needle or the H and 3 will produce about the same result.

I would also skip the VL for now. Really get to know the ways of one brush first. The VL is a good brush but I agree that at this point it will add another level of confusion. Course that doesn't mean you shouldn't mess around with it and see if you even like it's action, spray a spoon or something. I have a double action brush I mostly just avoid lol !!! And I shot 1/1 for 30 years.

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Dave G.

[jchrisf]

Thanks all.. my Paasche H has one needle for both the #1 and #3 nozzle.  Is this true with the one you use?

[Dave G.]

56 minutes ago, jchrisf said:

Thanks all.. my Paasche H has one needle for both the #1 and #3 nozzle.  Is this true with the one you use?

Yes. I'm not a fan of the dual needle function. I ordered in what I thought to be just a straight #1 needle set but it's the same. Oh well. In my case I have the Badger 200 anyway and the fine needle on that is .25 and you literally swap out the needle. The atomization is just a very fine mist, yet it can still be opened up to get a wet coat down.. I use that combo most over the H and fine needle. I'm saying it again but to me the honey tip on the H is the 3. But that's just an opinion that may or may not be true for someone else. And I'm not knocking the H at all but I've shot that 200 for 45 years and bought the H a few years ago to back that up and to shoot varnish coats and stuff. If all I had or ever knew was the H I could get along fine with it.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Dave G.

[jchrisf]

Thanks Dave... I'll be putting the #3 on for the next session.  I believe @Scale-Master once posted that all he ever uses is the #5 for everything.

[Dave G.]

1 hour ago, jchrisf said:

Thanks Dave... I'll be putting the #3 on for the next session.  I believe @Scale-Master once posted that all he ever uses is the #5 for everything.

Well all I can say is I think you'll be happy with the #3, it pretty well trims back to what the #1 can do. And open up to get nice wide passes when moving away a little. Surely try the 5 along the way but understand that's a big nozzle bore, my touch up spray gun has about the same size on it lol. I think it's 1.05 if I'm not mistaken. And my touch up gun is lvlp and has a fan cap. I shoot either gun with that nozzle size at 35psi just fwiw, shooting Liquitex varnish for my wife's ceramics projects. Granted it can be cut back. I don't know, some guys like the #5, I'm not here to counter anyone's opinion. But I also know the #3 can flow a bunch of paint too. Sooo, try em !!!

Edited May 28, 2020 by Dave G.

[jchrisf]

I've honestly tried all three and haven't noticed much difference myself but I don't have the experience most people here do.

[Dave G.]

3 hours ago, jchrisf said:

I've honestly tried all three and haven't noticed much difference myself but I don't have the experience most people here do.

If you tend to shoot with the nozzle fairly closed down you may not see much difference between the nozzles. Opened up and if you have sufficient airflow it should be noticeable, if in no other way than over spray and the volume of paint going down in your cup or bottle. That #5 can be a guzzler in particular.. And if you mostly shoot it fairly closed down then it may not matter to you anyway.. If you're happy as is go for it !!

Additionally with full disclosure here, I've been using the H with the #1 tip lately myself. My #3 tip packing has loosened up so it hesitates ( air leak). A little bees wax works but rather than mess with it I just switched to the #1. Been getting along with it fine but the fine mist end of the threads has it cut off quicker than with the 3. That #1 tip would be great with a more gradual needle imo. Course if I really want that I have the very elderly Badger 200.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Dave G.