Curtis Turner Smokey Yunick Chevelle

[yellowsportwagon]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:00 AM, TransAmMike said:

Great job Todd, but did you shorten the body like Smokey was said to have done??

The car was not actually shortened. The body was moved on the chassis. And lots of aero tricks were done to it. The frt bumper was made taller to act as a spoiler. The rear of the roof was reshaped to have a little ducktail to divert air away from the tunneled rear window. and some more subtle stuff.

[W Humble]

Apparently started NASCAR using the body-profile templates?  I have a signed poster of the Smoke and his Chevelle, pretty cool.  I stuck a 'Smokey Belongs' sticker on it (it was inscribed to someone else, darn!) ref. to his being excluded from their hall of fame for his 'fudging' the rules, etc. 

I got to interview him once, for SPECIAL INTEREST AUTOS Magazine, and always good for vivid/outrageous quotes, when he asked what mag it was for again, and I answered, he snapped: "Never heard of it!"  Put me in my place, but the session yielded some great copy on the Chevy W-motor (348-409-427) for us!  Article was republished in 3-parts in the VCCA magazine GENERATOR & DISTRIBUTOR a bit over a year ago.     Wick

[curt raitz]

I built a model of this car and it is the Virginia Transportation Museum in Roanoke. They have a wing dedicated to Curtis Turner there. 

The story on this car, so I've heard is Smokey did modify this car quite a bit. It was before NASCAR used templates to verify vehicle profiles. Smokey being Smokey he had a stock Chevelle modified to match the race car placed in the parking lot. When NASCAR questioned the profile of the race car, Smokey led them to the parking lot and pointed out his planted Chevelle and let NASCAR measure it and compare to the race car...no problem!

Curtis Turner did race this car, but he had a big accident and totaled the car. After the race, Smokey said that this was his last car he would build for NASCAR because he didn't want to build the car that killed Curtis Turner.

Both Smokey and Curtis were both a couple of characters making NASCAR fun in the 50's and 60's.

[W Humble]

Curt,

More info on wh\ere to find your build, pls?

I got into Smokey back when Fireball Roberts drove Pontiacs -- and before GM stabbed thier fans in the back and conceded NASCAR to the 'other two'.  Got sick of them crowing about 'side-oiler 427's" and o,c 'hemis' -- GM had the biggest engineering plant on Earth, literally and could easily have stayed competitive, but the gummint was after them on anti-monopoly issues, and wanted to split Chevy away from the other four, so they bailed.  Fooey.  

He wanted to WIN, but at least was innovative/subtle about it all.  We're all partisan, and I prefer Chevy's and Pontiacs -- and the under-dog independents.  Saying that: I have a '71 240Z restomod (ground up job; never driven through standing water, so no fun), a #3 condition '51 Ford Crestliner (flatheads forever,) and a project '61 Tempest with the Buick alloy V-8, only 200+/- built.  Also, almost done Dad's '51 Chevy Styline Deluxe 2-dr sedan (350/T-5, etc.) for my son.  At age almost 79!

Wonder if anyone built a model of Smokey's 'side-car' Indy effort?

Good to hear from you!  Wick  We both have 'oldie' pics, huh?!

[Ragtop Man]

The "7/8ths" and "15/16th" are largely fiction to dramatize a point, not necessarly an empirical measurement. Cars of the day were built to fairly loose tolerances, not surprising considering production techniques and factories had not advanced nearly as quickly as the styling.  Thus, gaps and fits could be fairly well camoflaged with trim and paint...at any plant in the '60s or '70s, as long as the car started, it was finished. "Paint it blue, send it through," as they said at the Ford Rouge complex just a few miles from where I grew up. 

Watch any of the modern online custom car 1:1 builds that start with 50s-60s bodies. Even fairly mild work requires gaps to be closed by adding metal around stock hems and flanges. Conversely, it would be no trick whatsoever to pick up an inch or so with no modification, much less a razor sharp race builder of Moody/Nichels/Yunick caliber.

So... Smokey with his own agenda, and others more subtly, could pull in or reshoot gaps and move sheet metal around easily.  He scooted the body back on the chassis, then channeled and sectioned what was left, perching it on the chassis just 'so' to balance downforce and Cd. "Didn't say you couldn't," as he was often quoted.  The only hiccup was his chassis setup, years behind the field to the point where Vince Piggins had the Chevy chassis team build one using computer modeling techniques, the car that really put the inspectors over the top. 

[W Humble]

Bob, In all fairness, the custom 1/1 builds that you refer to are indeed starting with 50s-60s bodies -- that have put in three-times the amount of life experiences than they were ever designed to endure.  Even a pristine garaged relic (I've had several) can have issues without having endured rust and rust repairs, fender benders that require new panels*, and just traffic abuse, but mostly those cars came from the dealer in very nice condition (also personal experience) and looking very nice for the money asked.  I spent a lot of high-school time as a 'lot-bot' for a Pontiac/Buick/GMC (and Rambler) dealership, and generally even the cheaper cars were delivered in admirable fit and finish.  Yes, the higher-zoot models had a level of both that was a notch above, but the Y-body Tempests were extremely good for their cost in '61.  Today: a modern professional resto or restomod-build costs somewhere in the six-figure range -- on a car that even adjusted for inflation might only go $30K.  You, hopefully, still get what you pay for...

*Panels, and repop replacement tin -- mostly Asian: 'approximate' aptly describes the fit of these parts, but needs must when the devil drives, huh?  

So-o-o... I do question the premise that all were crappy or semi-crappy builds.  My '65 Tempest Custom 2-dr HT (326, three pedals!) was super nice (until it was rear-ended by drunk teens in a Jeep -- with a winch on the front!) in '68, and Motor Trend cited PMD for new tech that produced "body panels whose accuracy and alignment were the envy of the industry."  Even the neighbor-grandma who bought a new '60 Ford Falcon (144-in. stripper) got value for her money, and my aunties '67 Chevy II sedan (which the dealer charged her Malibu money for!) was a very decent product, other than a smeared thumbprint in the anti-glare paint of the dash, and some quick sealer work in the trunk) which she enjoyed until 94, and sold to me with 18K miles on it.  I delivered a new '65 Bonneville HT that was gorgeously built, inside and out, and a quiet as Tut's tomb at speed -- when Ford was advertising R-R like silence.  

Forgive the rant: Talk about killing an ant with a sledge!  RE Smokey: yep, he was into winning, and also into doing it all Smokey's way. His roots were to a degree scofflaw, and he'd shoot the works for a win.  Don't think he ever lost any money on his style!   Old Wick

[rrb124@sbcglobal.net]

Growing up with all of the 60's great cars,  I am enjoying this buzz! In high school (class of 1969) one of the guys had a red on red 4 speed 66 Chevelle 396 SS and it was very nice. One of the best GM designs of the times. I think that there is a book somewhere on the great Smokey and his hi jinks. Ha. This model hits all the best spots and is fun to see. So glad to see it.

[MarkJ]

6 hours ago, rrb124@sbcglobal.net said:

Growing up with all of the 60's great cars,  I am enjoying this buzz! In high school (class of 1969) one of the guys had a red on red 4 speed 66 Chevelle 396 SS and it was very nice. One of the best GM designs of the times. I think that there is a book somewhere on the great Smokey and his hi jinks. Ha. This model hits all the best spots and is fun to see. So glad to see it.

Robert, I am also a member of the high school class of 69. We had a guy name Richard Bulot who had a 65 GTO with a 389 3 deuces power plant. He loved to burn them down on the road right in front of the High School just about every day. It didn't matter because he had dropped out of school his junior year and got a well-paying job. Trouble is I think he got drafted and I really never heard anything about him after that. Might have ended up in Viet Nam. It was going strong at that time. That car sure was sweet. Silver blue metallic.

[rrb124@sbcglobal.net]

3 hours ago, MarkJ said:

Robert, I am also a member of the high school class of 69. We had a guy name Richard Bulot who had a 65 GTO with a 389 3 deuces power plant. He loved to burn them down on the road right in front of the High School just about every day. It didn't matter because he had dropped out of school his junior year and got a well-paying job. Trouble is I think he got drafted and I really never heard anything about him after that. Might have ended up in Viet Nam. It was going strong at that time. That car sure was sweet. Silver blue metallic.

Wow, the 65 GTO had all of us pumped up. My parents' first nice car was a dark red  1964 Pontiac Grand Prix. We were Pontiac fans. You are lucky to see that guy open up the 3 deuces and roar past the high school. We also had 3 of the 1965 Pontiac Catalina 2plus 2's. They had the 421 engine included in the package. Sometimes they could catch a GTO. People would say that those 421 Catalina's were too big to go that fast!

[rrb124@sbcglobal.net]

4 minutes ago, rrb124@sbcglobal.net said:

Wow, the 65 GTO had all of us pumped up. My parents' first nice car was a dark red  1964 Pontiac Grand Prix. We were Pontiac fans. You are lucky to see that guy open up the 3 deuces and roar past the high school. We also had 3 of the 1965 Pontiac Catalina 2plus 2's. They had the 421 engine included in the package. Sometimes they could catch a GTO. People would say that those 421 Catalina's were too big to go that fast!

When I said that "we had three of the Pontiac 2plus2's "I ment to say that we had 3 in town.

[W Humble]

Lots of practice with GM "A-bodies" including the LeMans/GTO.  My best Army buddy and home town friend basically 'restored' a very pretty used '65 before he got drafted with me in 1969.  Dean was really a fan, and was hoping to buy a new Firebird when he ETS'ed, but was killed in 'Nam two-weeks after he was deployed (as they say now) by a chopper load of ammo that had been booby-trapped.  Great hot-rodder, all-round athlete, and 'shy, polite, fun, and a great guy' according to my wife of 54 years, who was in his class of 1968.  Miss the guy!  And, nowadays, I can't afford any A-body cars; have to make do with my '61 'Y-body" Tempest coupe with rare Buick alloy V-8, which I'm half-way toward cherrying-out.  I have three 1961-63 Tempest/LeMans models, and a replica of my '65 Tempest Custom 2dr HT, 326/3-speed that I had to sell when the draft got me!  Since PMD didn't make the OHC-6 Banshee sports car, I bought a new 1970 240Z Datsun before I left the Army (later restored it and wrote a book on it-- still in print), a move I never regretted. NISSAN USA bought it back for a display car in 1995!  I now have a '71, resto-modified that I did myself, all but the engine rebuild.  Whew!  Still like the Pontiacs, tho -- our family drove a number of them.  Sad the marque is gone, too!  Ole' Wick

[Ragtop Man]

Think my point about assembly variation and quality may have been mis-characterized. Don't want this to stray too far from modeling, but the myths surrounding Smokey need some context.

To the point, once GM had the assembly line cranked up and running, Fisher and the divisions typically did a very good job to get a presentable car into the showroom.

GM were the masters of the "known" - perfecting paint, trim, hardware and accessories, landing new models in showrooms EVERY year. 

That said, there was a lot of 'slop' engineered into the system, to deal with shop-to-shop variation. So, the door was wide open for Smokey to clean up and enhance well beyond what the designers intended. He wasn't working with junk - he just had time to take it the rest of the way. 

[Rattlecan Dan]

Very nice build. Timeless sharp car.

[CaddyDaddy]

Can't remember if it was this car or one of his Pontiacs. At Daytona, NASCAR was suspicious of why Smokey was getting better gas mileage than everyone else. They impounded the car and pulled the fuel cell. It pumped to the stipulated 22 gallon maximum. With the cell laying on the ground next to the car, Smokey got in, fired it up, and proceeded to drive it to his garage a couple of miles from the track. Lesson learned? In the rulebook, NASCAR limited the size of the tank, but they made not one mention on the length and diameter of the fuel line!!! Smokey had 1" diameter hose snaked all through the underside of the car, thus giving him a few extra gallons of capacity!

[Johnny Canuck]

H

Edited June 27, 2024 by Johnny Canuck

[Johnny Canuck]

On 3/24/2024 at 2:46 PM, W Humble said:

I'm rebuilding my YOM '61 Bonneville into a Catalina (sorta') and wonder what gold paint you used?  It looks great!

 

Hello James Humble,

I have the nicely detailed Trumpeter '60 Bonneville kit that I'm looking to reduce to Smokey's Catalina dimensions. As well as adding the more accurate '59 Chev roof.

Any suggestions on where cuts to the body behind the rear window should be made to achieve the scale 2-inch reduction in length? If not, no worries. If I only get the roofline corrected I'll be happy.

[W Humble]

I mistakenly shortened my annual '61 Bonne in the roof/cabin area, and tho it looks racy, it is wrong!  An article in a very old SAE mag showed how one race car modeler shortened the deck/rear fenders (don't recall how much, but maybe 1/4-in.?) to make the Catalina proportions correct. He did a staggered cut; pretty complex!

  It looked very good!  If you want, I'll dig the issue out but it'll take a week, I imagine.  Good luck!  Wick

[MarkJ]

I'm getting very interested with all this talk about making a 61 Catalina correct from the Bonneville kit. I always wanted to do it but never got around to it because I didn't think I could pull it off. I hope somebody gives it a try. The 61 Pontiac was a very good looking Nascar  Grand National race car.

Edited June 27, 2024 by MarkJ

[W Humble]

If I can find the mag (very old- like 1980's) and copy the article (2-3 pages with good photos) I may be able to post it here, if there is interest?  Wish I'd found it before I sectioned my annual '61 kit.  I have the repop '61 Catalina kit, which is very nice, but haven't gotten to it yet !  [I'm not great at posting pics!]

I was wondering what gold was used for Smokey's Chevelle: brand, shade, etc. Suggestions?

I have a signed poster of said Chevy -- not inscribed to me darnit!  I did get a good interview with him back in the 'seventies, but it was about the Chevy W Motor and Impalas -- which he refused to run, sticking with his '57!    Wick

[MarkJ]

3 hours ago, W Humble said:

If I can find the mag (very old- like 1980's) and copy the article (2-3 pages with good photos) I may be able to post it here, if there is interest?  Wish I'd found it before I sectioned my annual '61 kit.  I have the repop '61 Catalina kit, which is very nice, but haven't gotten to it yet !  [I'm not great at posting pics!]

I was wondering what gold was used for Smokey's Chevelle: brand, shade, etc. Suggestions?

I have a signed poster of said Chevy -- not inscribed to me darnit!  I did get a good interview with him back in the 'seventies, but it was about the Chevy W Motor and Impalas -- which he refused to run, sticking with his '57!    Wick

James, I used Tamiya gold in the rattle can on my Smokey Chevelle. It's not as pretty as the one in this thread but it's pretty close. I just posted it over at Short Track models in the Darkside section if you want to see how the Tamiya looks

[W Humble]

Thanks; prob do the same!

I found the Fireball Roberts race #22 build in a SAE of 1985; I'll scan it tomorrow and hopefully get it attached for this forum asap.  Pretty detailed; a bit different than might be built now, with the new-issue '61 Catalina kit, but if one wants to do the annual Bonne conversion it shows how.   Wick

[MarkJ]

6 hours ago, W Humble said:

Thanks; prob do the same!

I found the Fireball Roberts race #22 build in a SAE of 1985; I'll scan it tomorrow and hopefully get it attached for this forum asap.  Pretty detailed; a bit different than might be built now, with the new-issue '61 Catalina kit, but if one wants to do the annual Bonne conversion it shows how.   Wick

Thanks, Wick. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I have a ton of old scale auto magazines, but I don't think I have the one you were talking about.

[W Humble]

Mark,

Going to scan it today and hope to post it asap.  It was SAE, #35, Jan/Feb 1985, for the record; has a Corvair rampside and fox Moostang on the cover.  Good, pretty accurate inclusion of Fireball Roberts story, too.  Should never had accepted a ride with Ford!

Wick

[Johnny Canuck]

On 6/27/2024 at 1:16 AM, W Humble said:

I mistakenly shortened my annual '61 Bonne in the roof/cabin area, and tho it looks racy, it is wrong!  An article in a very old SAE mag showed how one race car modeler shortened the deck/rear fenders (don't recall how much, but maybe 1/4-in.?) to make the Catalina proportions correct. He did a staggered cut; pretty complex!

  It looked very good!  If you want, I'll dig the issue out but it'll take a week, I imagine.  Good luck!  Wick

Thanks Wick. That would be awesome reference material. And a staggered cut was what I was thinking, but it's a tricky bit of business. Maybe open a separate thread for this Pontiac, although one thread on the wonders Smokey worked would be just fine, too.

[W Humble]

Well, I scanned the pages; hope they're readable.  Contributor Paul Michulsky (just because I never heard of him...!) is a good craftsman, and his text is mostly very good, esp. on Roberts.  Glen 'Fireball' Roberts was always my favorite big-stocker driver, and it was sad GM abandoned racing and left him to Brand F -- where he died.

Paul takes his engine -- why, I don't know -- from an MPC '69 Firebird kit, and thus it is a400, not a 389 as it would have been in '61.  He liked the detail, etc. but it's wrong looking.  Builing a NASCAR frame from plastic and balsa seems strange now.  Doing hand-lettered 'decals' would challenge me, and I have an MA in Art.

Well, the scans are the best I could get; not too tech-savvy at 79!  Hope all four upload for you all! Sorry about cropping effect; you're prob used to better!

 Wick  (Owner of a '61 Pontiac, but it's a Tempest coupe -- with the rare Buick aluminum 215 V-8, currently under restoration!_