Ebbro/Tamiya 1:12 1968 Matra MS11 F1

[Nacho Z]

8 hours ago, MarkJ said:

Thanks for the tip on making springs. Now if I can just get my fingers to cooperate.

Mark, I'm right there with you.  I made these one at a time, or, one per session.  The wire and the drill bit are so small that I really had to hold them tightly.

[Chris Smith]

Welcome back! I’m along for the duration…

 

[Nacho Z]

16 hours ago, Chris Smith said:

Welcome back! I’m along for the duration…

 

Thanks, Chris! I’m hoping to have this one completed and ready for the 2024 contest season, but I don’t think that will happen.  I’m getting ready for some major plumbing of that V-12.  Lots to figure out.  Last night I started scratching up some banjo fittings…?‍♂️ At this rate I will not be ready for the Spring season.  Maybe the Fall season…lol.

[Chris Smith]

I’m sure you will do well!! 

 

[4knflyin]

On 8/16/2022 at 10:18 AM, mrm said:

1) What I did when using the kit supplied clear tubing was actually flow diluted Tamiya clear orange. Best effect I ever achieved. And it will never rub out. 

2) An alternative eliminating the possibilities of kinks is fishing cord. If you go to most fishing supply stores, you will probably go home with enough clear “tubing” in various scales to last you a lifetime, for free. Just tell them what you need it for and they will give you all sorts of pieces. 

3) Something I have also tried is clear beading cord, which is super cheap and available in any Walmart or craft store in a variety of sizes. Again, three bucks will probably set you for life. 

1) What an excellent idea! Thanks for that.

2) The last time I was at anything like a fishing store was when I was asked to wait for somebody at the Bass shop. Went in to grab a candy bar. I'll have to venture farther in the next time

3) Thanks for all the alt sources for detailing.

John, as for this build: What you're doing with this is simply 1st Class. That engine and its history deserve all the love you're showing it. It was poor timing with the regs and the DFV that I recall were its undoing.

And thanks for spelling out for me what you're doing with each step. I've stocked up with some models and I'm still stymied by what I don't know or, perhaps more accurately, by my lack of imagination. You're providing an excellent tutorial and encouragement for me. You certainly don't lack imagination.

Your remark about F1 is prbably true, but I grew up on the stuff. I lived within a 2 hr radius of Nürburgring (not F1 at the time, but only 45 minutes), Spa, Zandvoort, and, farthest, Hockenheim. It's great to see the US so enthusiastic about F1. I don't have to explain to people what it is anymore!

Lastly, your Matra Simca, and the Tamiya Matra Ford and Honda RA301 sat in my adolescent bedroom terrorizing me every day until I was 14, when they were finally replaced by a set of real life drums. I kept building jet and helicopter models, but I mean it when I say those F1 kits terrorized me. I so wanted to build them, but was afraid I'd mess them up or never finish. So now I have a few boxes of kits that I plan on building in my old age no matter how inferior they may turn out. Thanks to input from others, they'll turn out better than I first expected, I'm sure.

[4knflyin]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:11 PM, Nacho Z said:

Thanks, Chris! I’m hoping to have this one completed and ready for the 2024 contest season, but I don’t think that will happen.  I’m getting ready for some major plumbing of that V-12.  Lots to figure out.  Last night I started scratching up some banjo fittings…?‍♂️ At this rate I will not be ready for the Spring season.  Maybe the Fall season…lol.

Have you looked at the rbmotion.shop banjo fittings? They're the most precise banjo fitting reproductions I've seen.

As a bonus, he sells (and I bought) an "FW14B A/N Fitting KIt (1/12 scale)" for your future build. He claims to have covered them all.

Sorry if it's obvious, but I'm still back on page 6 for the most part.

Edited January 6, 2024 by 4knflyin

[4knflyin]

On 2/27/2023 at 7:52 PM, Nacho Z said:

This will be the third and final update concentrating on the front bulkhead.  As stated previously, the kit provides no detail whatsoever, only the steering rack.  Let me know what you think.

Here you can see that I've added fittings to the hard lines for the front brakes.

And a photo of my brake line and fittings.

 

I am pleased with the overall results.

 

I understand big scale, foreign, open wheel race cars don't garner a lot of love but I would like to hear some feedback on this one.  I'm open to comments, advice, critiques or just some plain old discussion on this one.  Thanks!

For whatever reason, I can't see some of the attached photos, such as the one you labeled as a pic of the real car. It doesn't usually matter, especially when I get fooled by pics of your work that look like real, solid, turned and formed steel. I'm particularly fascinated by the fitting at the junction of the hard and soft brake lines. That looks way realistic. Do you go into your choice of PE, paints, and rod materials somewhere else and I missed it? 

My only nit, and I only include it because you asked for critique: why on the upper and lower control arms did you not scrape off the mold plastic? However, it actually could pass as welding, you can tell them that's what it is and you added it!

____

Okay, I've got to get back to my kit. I've had the paint for a couple days now and just can't get motivated to take a chance on the two-tone rework making it all even worse and more irreversible. That's my fear. I should have asked guys here for advice, but in my newbie status, the feedback loop is too painful (but probably not as painful as screwing it up will be).

Edited January 6, 2024 by 4knflyin

[IanH]

Welcome back! 

I just read through the thread from the beginning, and what an amazing piece of work. 

This is going to be a real impressive model. 

Looking forward to updates as they come through. 

[Nacho Z]

On 1/5/2024 at 1:37 AM, 4knflyin said:

1) What an excellent idea! Thanks for that.

2) The last time I was at anything like a fishing store was when I was asked to wait for somebody at the Bass shop. Went in to grab a candy bar. I'll have to venture farther in the next time

3) Thanks for all the alt sources for detailing.

John, as for this build: What you're doing with this is simply 1st Class. That engine and its history deserve all the love you're showing it. It was poor timing with the regs and the DFV that I recall were its undoing.

And thanks for spelling out for me what you're doing with each step. I've stocked up with some models and I'm still stymied by what I don't know or, perhaps more accurately, by my lack of imagination. You're providing an excellent tutorial and encouragement for me. You certainly don't lack imagination.

Your remark about F1 is prbably true, but I grew up on the stuff. I lived within a 2 hr radius of Nürburgring (not F1 at the time, but only 45 minutes), Spa, Zandvoort, and, farthest, Hockenheim. It's great to see the US so enthusiastic about F1. I don't have to explain to people what it is anymore!

Lastly, your Matra Simca, and the Tamiya Matra Ford and Honda RA301 sat in my adolescent bedroom terrorizing me every day until I was 14, when they were finally replaced by a set of real life drums. I kept building jet and helicopter models, but I mean it when I say those F1 kits terrorized me. I so wanted to build them, but was afraid I'd mess them up or never finish. So now I have a few boxes of kits that I plan on building in my old age no matter how inferior they may turn out. Thanks to input from others, they'll turn out better than I first expected, I'm sure.

Marcus, thank you very much for the kind words!  How amazing is it to have been around those famous racetracks!!!  I have stated elsewhere on this forum that I post these WIP threads for a couple of reasons; it helps me remember what I did and when I did it and hopefully it may help someone else out in the process.  No false humility here, but I really do consider myself a bit of a hack and a lazy modeler.  I know where I took shortcuts and where I could have done better.  I’ll never be at the level of a lot of guys and gals but I do try to do the best I can with my limited abilities.  So, thanks again!  It is interactions like this that help push me along with my builds.

[Nacho Z]

14 hours ago, 4knflyin said:

Have you looked at the rbmotion.shop banjo fittings? They're the most precise banjo fitting reproductions I've seen.

As a bonus, he sells (and I bought) an "FW14B A/N Fitting KIt (1/12 scale)" for your future build. He claims to have covered them all.

Sorry if it's obvious, but I'm still back on page 6 for the most part.

Yes, I have.  My problem was, I wasn’t sure what size to get.  I do a fair bit of “eyeball engineering” and want them to not only be in scale but also look “right”.  Then there is the satisfaction of trying to make my own.  I’m on my third iteration of them and I’m still not satisfied.  I have a few friends and one small FB group that I share a lot of my work with.  I love them all, but they drive me crazy because they don’t let me slack off and get too lazy.  It is truly constructive criticism and I do appreciate it.

Regarding the Williams, I have the complete Thunder Valley F1 set.  Set isn’t really correct, I have everything he made for the Williams. I have everything Top Studio made as well. And to the best of my knowledge, I have everything RB had for it as well, or at least, what would work on it.  I have Tabu or Shunko decals, I forget which, as well as some CF decals for it.  The CF decals probably won’t work.  I believe someone copied and upscaled Studio 27’s 1:20 sheets?  We’ll see.

Going back to Thunder Valley F1 and Paul Raterink.  I was fully aware of how he ripped people off by taking their money and not sending out the items they paid for and about all of his sob stories.  However, there were reports that he was trying to make things right.  After a little more investigation, and talking to him, I ordered the Williams items.  They arrived and to the best of my recollection there were no problems.  Beautiful, exquisite stuff!  Then I landed a 1:12 Tamiya Ferrari 641/2.  I went back to TVF1 and placed my order for all of those items.  He told me on the phone and in emails that I still have, that he had almost everything on hand and would have to make a few pieces.  The only thing that I have received is a whole lot of BS from him.  I’m out hundreds of dollars.  He strung me along long enough that I really have no recourse.  While typing this reply, I Googled his company and the website appears to no longer exist.  I’m curious of how many people Paul Raterink has stolen money from.

[4knflyin]

1 hour ago, Nacho Z said:

Yes, I have.  My problem was, I wasn’t sure what size to get.  I do a fair bit of “eyeball engineering” and want them to not only be in scale but also look “right”.  Then there is the satisfaction of trying to make my own.  I’m on my third iteration of them and I’m still not satisfied.  I have a few friends and one small FB group that I share a lot of my work with.  I love them all, but they drive me crazy because they don’t let me slack off and get too lazy.  It is truly constructive criticism and I do appreciate it.

Regarding the Williams, I have the complete Thunder Valley F1 set.  Set isn’t really correct, I have everything he made for the Williams. I have everything Top Studio made as well. And to the best of my knowledge, I have everything RB had for it as well, or at least, what would work on it.  I have Tabu or Shunko decals, I forget which, as well as some CF decals for it.  The CF decals probably won’t work.  I believe someone copied and upscaled Studio 27’s 1:20 sheets?  We’ll see.

Going back to Thunder Valley F1 and Paul Raterink.  I was fully aware of how he ripped people off by taking their money and not sending out the items they paid for and about all of his sob stories.  However, there were reports that he was trying to make things right.  After a little more investigation, and talking to him, I ordered the Williams items.  They arrived and to the best of my recollection there were no problems.  Beautiful, exquisite stuff!  Then I landed a 1:12 Tamiya Ferrari 641/2.  I went back to TVF1 and placed my order for all of those items.  He told me on the phone and in emails that I still have, that he had almost everything on hand and would have to make a few pieces.  The only thing that I have received is a whole lot of BS from him.  I’m out hundreds of dollars.  He strung me along long enough that I really have no recourse.  While typing this reply, I Googled his company and the website appears to no longer exist.  I’m curious of how many people Paul Raterink has stolen money from.

I wrote RB a couple of times asking him to tell me the correct size for 1/12 brake calipers. I can't remember now, but I think it was AP who used a banjo fitting on their brakes. Anyway, crickets... I can pretty much say by looking at them that they are water and engine oil banjo fittings, none of them delicate enough for what I'm remembering.

As for the FS14B decals, I decided to stick with the Cartograph. If you think I may be making a mistake, please let me know. If I get a kit with Tamiya-made decals, I run to Shunko. LOL. Really, please tell me if you think Cartograph are not top tier. I have a couple other models where I've decided, if I get to them!, I'll use the Cartograph.

Curious, though, is that I have in 1/12 scale the: Williams, MP4/6, Tyrrell 003 (bull nose for sentimental reasons), and even an MP42C, yet the most beautiful of the 80s/90s cars that comes in a kit is the 641/2... and I don't own it. I really wonder about how well I'm aging. (How can we lobby MFH or Italiana or whomever to produce a kit of the short-lived Lamborghini 291? That, I think, was the most beautiful of the greatest era.)

Thank you for your note about TVF1. I saw the contents of their kit when I was decided between them and TS. I went with TS because of their dominance, not knowing any of the backstory on TVF1. However, looking at the TVF1 parts, I was blown away. This was about 6 mos. ago and it was an ebay sale, not direct from TVF1. I'm glad I found the TS Master Detail set for a "reasonable" price, seeing as they now go for upwards of $500 and more. They can still be had for less than four bills, but it takes looking.

Lastly, I don't have a FB acct., and don't really want one, but I'll get one for the privilege of seeing some of the behind-the-scenes work. Will searching your name do the trick? It's weird how Meta cut off anybody who doesn't have an account from seeing content. 

EDIT: I almost forgot! I bought those cheezie CF decals for the Williams and decided they may be good as templates for descent ones. It hadn't occurred to me, but I think you are absolutely correct that they are blow-ups of another makers product. They look so bad.

Edited January 6, 2024 by 4knflyin

[Nacho Z]

On 1/6/2024 at 1:07 AM, IanH said:

Welcome back! 

I just read through the thread from the beginning, and what an amazing piece of work. 

This is going to be a real impressive model. 

Looking forward to updates as they come through. 

 

Thank you, Ian!  I appreciate you checking in on the build!

[Nacho Z]

On 1/6/2024 at 3:23 PM, 4knflyin said:

I wrote RB a couple of times asking him to tell me the correct size for 1/12 brake calipers. I can't remember now, but I think it was AP who used a banjo fitting on their brakes. Anyway, crickets... I can pretty much say by looking at them that they are water and engine oil banjo fittings, none of them delicate enough for what I'm remembering.

As for the FS14B decals, I decided to stick with the Cartograph. If you think I may be making a mistake, please let me know. If I get a kit with Tamiya-made decals, I run to Shunko. LOL. Really, please tell me if you think Cartograph are not top tier. I have a couple other models where I've decided, if I get to them!, I'll use the Cartograph.

Curious, though, is that I have in 1/12 scale the: Williams, MP4/6, Tyrrell 003 (bull nose for sentimental reasons), and even an MP42C, yet the most beautiful of the 80s/90s cars that comes in a kit is the 641/2... and I don't own it. I really wonder about how well I'm aging. (How can we lobby MFH or Italiana or whomever to produce a kit of the short-lived Lamborghini 291? That, I think, was the most beautiful of the greatest era.)

Thank you for your note about TVF1. I saw the contents of their kit when I was decided between them and TS. I went with TS because of their dominance, not knowing any of the backstory on TVF1. However, looking at the TVF1 parts, I was blown away. This was about 6 mos. ago and it was an ebay sale, not direct from TVF1. I'm glad I found the TS Master Detail set for a "reasonable" price, seeing as they now go for upwards of $500 and more. They can still be had for less than four bills, but it takes looking.

Lastly, I don't have a FB acct., and don't really want one, but I'll get one for the privilege of seeing some of the behind-the-scenes work. Will searching your name do the trick? It's weird how Meta cut off anybody who doesn't have an account from seeing content. 

EDIT: I almost forgot! I bought those cheezie CF decals for the Williams and decided they may be good as templates for descent ones. It hadn't occurred to me, but I think you are absolutely correct that they are blow-ups of another makers product. They look so bad.

 

Hi, Marcus, I absolutely agree with you about Cartograph.  The best decals around!  Please don't get a FB account for me or my work.  You will be mightily disappointed...lol.  I pretty much post all of my model stuff over here as well as on FB.  I know there are those that are adamantly against FB and that is their prerogative.  I originally joined to keep in touch with family and high school friends.  I now have as many hobby friends as anything.  There is a tremendous amount of useful information on FB.  Yes, stupidity abounds there as well.  I'm in some wonderful 1:1 car groups, race car groups, model groups and on and on.

[Brudda]

 Beautiful build! I have a very old Bandai kit of the matra ms11 and am learning a lot on this build. Thank you for the post of this kit as it will help me on my build. My build will not be up to this kind of standard but will try to get it as close as possible. Thank you NachoZ as your skill is amazing. 

[Nacho Z]

On 1/22/2024 at 10:11 AM, Brudda said:

 Beautiful build! I have a very old Bandai kit of the matra ms11 and am learning a lot on this build. Thank you for the post of this kit as it will help me on my build. My build will not be up to this kind of standard but will try to get it as close as possible. Thank you NachoZ as your skill is amazing. 

 

Wow, Bruce, you are far too kind, but I thank you for the comment.

Edited January 25, 2024 by Nacho Z
Typo

[4knflyin]

On 1/22/2024 at 10:11 AM, Brudda said:

 Beautiful build!

Update! Just a glimpse of what you're sharing on FB, those losers (kidding).

There are a two other builds I'm watching, one a Tamiya 1:12 MP4/6 over in jolly old England, the other an SDB that's actually already finished, but the detail makes me take it slow. What all three of you have in common is well practice skill, creativity, patience, and something that, whatever it is, I am lacking (one step forward, two back, and I'm running out of room... another bad day of model building).

I know from personal experience now that documenting and building is hard. So how about a couple of cut and paste from FB posts? (I'd love to see that bajo fitting, lol. Last night I saw that Top Studio has those break caliper banjo bolts again and ordered a couple of sets from Spot. And I got my 1:12 MP4/6 TS Master Detail-Up kit — one day short of three months after ordering it! 92 days, but who's counting.)

[Nacho Z]

17 hours ago, 4knflyin said:

Update! Just a glimpse of what you're sharing on FB, those losers (kidding).

There are a two other builds I'm watching, one a Tamiya 1:12 MP4/6 over in jolly old England, the other an SDB that's actually already finished, but the detail makes me take it slow. What all three of you have in common is well practice skill, creativity, patience, and something that, whatever it is, I am lacking (one step forward, two back, and I'm running out of room... another bad day of model building).

I know from personal experience now that documenting and building is hard. So how about a couple of cut and paste from FB posts? (I'd love to see that bajo fitting, lol. Last night I saw that Top Studio has those break caliper banjo bolts again and ordered a couple of sets from Spot. And I got my 1:12 MP4/6 TS Master Detail-Up kit — one day short of three months after ordering it! 92 days, but who's counting.)

Much like Bruce, just a few posts earlier, you are too kind!  I do thank you for checking out the Matra.  I tend to share more on FB, (not much more), because I have a lot of friends that just don’t understand what goes into making a model.  I guess I tend to explain things a little more over on FB.

Sorry to see that you are having some bad days at the bench.  Hopefully you will get in a few “leaps and bounds” in between those “two steps back”! ?

Regarding the banjo fittings, I’ve made 3 or 4 attempts so far, with each attempt getting a little better than the last.  I am doing “eyeball engineering” on them, I just want them to be close to the real thing.  The banjo fittings that I have are too small for my needs.  

I have delayed this project again, hopefully for just a short time.  I have started on a Tamiya Ferrari 360 Modena.  There is a WIP thread here on MCM.  I will get back on the Matra soon.

[Randy D]

Really enjoying this Matra build John,  hope you get back to it soon!

 

Randy

[Russell C]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:07 PM, IanH said:

... I just read through the thread from the beginning, and what an amazing piece of work. ...

Ditto, and following, in order to borrow many of your detail points. I told in my Dec 6 "What didja get today" post how I got a "missing major parts buildup" of these and have evil plans to turn the back half of it into a fictional massive fender flare car body / F1-ish combo. I have my fun doing such comical things, such as my V7 4x4 top fuel dragster, and my 'use-the-available-1:1-engine-reference-you-have' NASCAR Mercedes. The objective is "technically accurate totally incorrect," allowing me to take some liberties here & there, but my goal is nevertheless to avoid the situation where a knowledgeable modeler would look at my blasphemous abomination and say, "Well, that's funny and all …. but you've hooked up the water pump backwards." Since I don't hardly have the first clue what I'm looking at, your kind of reference material is very valuable.

Having finally found the time today to disassemble a bit of this old buildup, I was impressed to see that the lone driveshaft it came with has fully functional U-joints!

[Nacho Z]

On 12/20/2024 at 11:42 PM, Russell C said:

Ditto, and following, in order to borrow many of your detail points. I told in my Dec 6 "What didja get today" post how I got a "missing major parts buildup" of these and have evil plans to turn the back half of it into a fictional massive fender flare car body / F1-ish combo. I have my fun doing such comical things, such as my V7 4x4 top fuel dragster, and my 'use-the-available-1:1-engine-reference-you-have' NASCAR Mercedes. The objective is "technically accurate totally incorrect," allowing me to take some liberties here & there, but my goal is nevertheless to avoid the situation where a knowledgeable modeler would look at my blasphemous abomination and say, "Well, that's funny and all …. but you've hooked up the water pump backwards." Since I don't hardly have the first clue what I'm looking at, your kind of reference material is very valuable.

Having finally found the time today to disassemble a bit of this old buildup, I was impressed to see that the lone driveshaft it came with has fully functional U-joints!

 

 

Thank you, Russell!  I'm glad that my little project could help someone out!  I must admit that I can relate to your "I don't hardly have the first clue what I'm looking at" comment.  I do try my best to get the details right but I'm not obsessive about it.  On a related note, one of my New Year's hobby resolutions was to get this model finished.  I hope I do!