theflame Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Well, we're back, with a new contest for 2009. After the terrific response we got last year we're hoping to have a tonne of builds included in this year's comp, and to build the competition even more. Here's the deal, ripped from last year's post: "Here's the deal: Build a 1:24 or 1:25 roadster of any body style of 1937 or older, or design a body all of your own of a similar look. Build it full detail, curbside of slammer style. You got until November 30th to get it done and submit your five best pictures. Voting will be done by the members on a few participating forums, including this one and will run one month. The first three weeks of voting, which runs all of December, will be followed by a 'final' for the 10 highest-placed cars. Of these ten, the award will be voted for the best received car of the ten. If you wanna post WIPS, which I'm gonna seriously encourage, or discuss the contest, this is a good place to do it! If you're stuck for inspiration think Oakland Roadster show (or Google it!)" Also, we've got a new comp that we're running for this year: "The Joker is a new for 2009 award that rewards creativity, engineering and workmanship. The vehicle that best represents these three areas will win the Joker Award. The vehicle must display minimal operability. It must be able to theoretically start, move forward and backward under its own power, turn left and right and stop. Need more ideas? Check out winner of the 2008 Ridler award, Ferrambo: http://jalopnik.com/365688/ferrambo-wins-2...etroit-autorama Or, how about this Viper powered 32? http://jalopnik.com/365695/1932-ford-wille...rise-powerplant Think 'modern parts making up a classic looking car' and you'll be on the right lines. Or, check out Tommy May's 'Red Hot Chili pepper - which I hope he'll agree to enter into this contest. Perfect example of engineering ingenuity and great looks." Have at it fellas! Edited February 1, 2009 by theflame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDO Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Is 1/8 OK for the Joker contest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflame Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 This one was bi-scale only last year - large scale models kinda present themselves differently and could be argued to have an advantage...although at the same itme I know there's less aftermarket bits available for them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george 53 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 So who/what won for 08? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart-Resins Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 This sounds like it could be fun! Ill have to give it consideration for sure! Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart-Resins Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Alright, quick question, what is the definition of a roadster for this competition. i know in general what a roadster is, but when I google the oakland roaster show, I see sedans, convertibles ect. Basically about everything? Thanks. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyclaw Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Flame; Although another contest is always a good thing; I still have to say that excluding anything other than "bi-scale" is just ######! A roadster is a roadster....apples to apples ETC. I don't get why you "bi-scale" guys shut out the big scale builders all of the time, and I just don't get the snobbery. A model car is a model car period.... All you have to do is judge each on it's OWN merits....and Viola' you will have a winner....I don't think scale is such a big (no pun intended) Deal. Obviously, I am not the only one that feels this way; as you have dodged the bullet from another forum member by simply saying last year BLAH-BLAH-BLAH.... Dude; get a grip....some of us just don't build that small stuff.... but that doesn't ,ean you should over look or exclude those builders....you may be be missing out on some of the BEST models you will see.....Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart-Resins Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I might add just a touch of thought to that. I have judged model shows. Poeple look at little models in awe because of all of thier vast details, details in wich you buy and merly glue on. I am no longer a big scaler, but know about the world of large scale. There are very few things you can get from very few places. If you dont get along with one person, your choices just got cut in half! Modt all details on larger scale, 1/20 on up to 1/4, need to be scratch built! Therefore, showing in my opinion more talent! Just a thought. Also, regarding my priuor post, in my mind, a roaster is a open bodied vehicle(convertibel) with some sort of area to store belongings like a bed, trunk, turle deck, rumble seat ect. I am just wanting to confirm that since viewing the sites for the roaster show, it showed the likes of solid top mercs and c cabs ect. I dont view those as roasters, but sedand ect. Now though on a side note. Would a sedan without its top be eligable for this as it becomes a open bodied car like the old model T sedans? or the say, 29 pickup that has been chopped, no top, drastically shortened bed with no fenders on a custom made chassis to lower it? I am sure I would not be the only one to ask these questions. I actually have a 32 I might chop the top off and get a duvall windshield for this contest, making it a raodster, but inquiring minds do want to know. Thanks. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyclaw Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Jody; WIKI defines "roadster as follows:" A roadster, also known as a spyder or spider, is a two-seater car, traditionally without a roof (or with a detachable roof) and no side or rear windows. Modern day two-seaters commonly have windows and feature retractable roofs (and are thus convertibles). While retractable soft-tops are still marketed as roadsters/spyders, retractable hard-tops are commonly designated as coupe roadsters." Admittedly THAT definition is somewhat skewed nowadays at the Oakland "roadster" show.....Although all of the vehicles are exceptional....no knocks there. I do agree with you that there are far fewer aftermarket items for big scale model cars....but it is not always the aftermarket parts that make an exceptional model....In any scale....models are models....PERIOD....regardless of the scale a modeler chooses; and like I said before.... I thin they can be judged on there own individual merits, assembly, engineering, and finish. I don't buy into the "unfair" advantage hoooey at all... any skilled modeler can craft an exceptional model in any scale if they have the desire to do so. I have ALWAYS been a big scale modeler; and have built other scales as well; but now for me big scale is the choice; due to the limitations of mobility in my hands....even the big scale stuff is getting tuffer for me; but it let's me keep modeling.........matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDO Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) This one was bi-scale only last year - large scale models kinda present themselves differently and could be argued to have an advantage...although at the same itme I know there's less aftermarket bits available for them... Edited February 4, 2009 by LDO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-hermit Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Large scale modelers know that size does matter !!!!!!!!!!!! Does a roadster pickup count ? By the way, this is 1/8 scale . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Willits Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'll let others argue over scales that are or are not allowed, but I want to point out what I believe was a very major flaw in last year's contest. The contest seemed like a wonderful idea. I believed it was going to be world-wide (at least to some reasonable degree) via the internet. I took the idea seriously and started to build a very detailed roadster model which I continued to work on for 11 months. I didn't expect to win a contest such as this, but hoped I could build something good enough to make the top 10, as discribed in the rules. Here's the flaw - the contest was announced on several forums in January of 2008 and, to my knowledge, NEVER BROUGHT UP AGAIN. No one remembered or knew of the contest by the time the November 2008 deadline arrived. It simply was not promoted for the rest of the year - not even on Automodelling.com, the HOST FORUM. A total of 8 models were entered in the "contest" and that was only because I posted a reminder ON THIS BOARD one week before the deadline. Please understand this is not "sour grapes" from me. Peter Lombardo won the 2008 award with an outstanding model and the win was well deserved. But I think even Peter would admit that it would have been more satisfying if there had been a very good turnout which would then have been narrowed down to the top 10. I applaud Jim (The flame) for the outstanding idea and for providing the trophy. I really enjoy visiting his forum, posting some of my stuff there and seeing many of the models that are not seen on other forums. My point is, this can be a super internet contest BUT IT MUST BE PROMOTED ALL YEAR. Most of us are well into adulthood (that's P.C. for "damned old) and can't remember what we read on a message board a week ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-hermit Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'll let others argue over scales that are or are not allowed I'm not arguing Lyle, I just wonder why the prejudice exists against large scale. We work just as hard to create something nice as the wee scalers. And most of the time harder because of the lack of aftermarket stuff. Most of us are well into adulthood (that's P.C. for "damned old) and can't remember what we read on a message board a week ago. Glad I'm not the only one "well into adulthood" ! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoot Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I don't think we have anything against large scale models, At least I don't BUT I do agree there's a difference between all scales. Yes folks size matters & I believe Matt's right as some of the best models are in fact large scale. That's a problem if you ask me, James patterned this after the classic Oakland & Grand National shows & one size fits all there... I don't understand the pre 38 thing yet as that's not part of their rules, still many local contests around the country seperate large & small scale models & there's a reason for that. Paul Canney now has a large scale board & he might be willing to host a contest strictley for large scale, that would be wild if you ask me... As long as I'm dropping names, I think Lyle W. has a good point about the lack of promotion during the year & it's easy to do as I've done it myself before. I think the addition of PIW photos should help with that. I hope to enter but still want to know more about what I'd be commiting to - Just my 2 centabos, Hizoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflame Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) Ohhh, good discussion guys. OK, responses in no particular order: Last year's winner was George Lombardo's gorgeous 1936 Auburn Cybele Special: http://www.automodelling.com/news.php?id=5&s_id=31 The definition of a roadster is kinda hazy, even in the 1:1 contest's rules. A T-top wouldnt count in my opinion, but pretty much anything else without a roof probably would. I've seen plenty of WMBR entrants that dont QUITE fit the roadster definition exactly, and I think they leave it a little hazy on purpose. So, I'm gonna do the same I think I trust my fellow model builders to use their judgement here... As for the large scale debate, this one only really got raised last year on MCM, not on any of the other forums, and again, it's only here that I see it being debated. Which I guess means more latrge scale builders hang out here on MCM than anywhere else. My logic last year for excluding large scale builds was that there was more scope for adding detail. Take Mark Jone's Superb 7, for example - its that incredible metallic blue Caterham build with scratchbuild and hyper-detailed EVERYTHING. Now, you couldn't get that kinda level of detail into a bi-scale build, realistically. Also though, as rightly pointed out in this thread, you cant get the parts as easy either. So, yeah, what the hell, lets get some large scale builds entered too, I think you've made a good argument there guys. For the record though, there's no snobbery or bullet-dodging going on here; I've just never built a large scale model, dont know anything about them really and thus didnt feel very comfortable promoting a contest for a genre of modelling I know nothing about. After all, the WMBMR contest is for the most BEAUTIFUL model, not the most highly detailed. That said, I'd like to keep The Joker contest bi-scale, as that one really IS intended to showcase engineering lots of interesting details into a small package. Yes, a roadster pick-up counts Al - after all, the Ala Kart won the 1:1 prize and it's one of the most recognisable winners (to modellers anyway) that there is! That one you posted is a more than worthy entry. Onto Lyle's point, and as a man and modeller I respect very much it's one I've been pondering particularly hard. Last year I ad some interesting promotional opportunities lined up that ended up never happening. i tried to get the magazines involved after announcing it, but to no avail. I posted up on all the sites I could think of (that would allow me to do so) but had to be careful not to plug the contest too hard in case it looked like spam. It IS hosted on another site, after all (though that's mainly due to the simple fact that I have a website and thus the resources to create a virtual 'home' for this contest). I had the support, after some delicate negotiations, of a well-known 1:1 designer/builder who was doing to judge the contest and award a prize for their pick, until said individual sadly passed away before the contest was over. Past that, and replying positively on every build I saw, I was at a little of a loss as to how to best promote the contest, and I'd love to hear more ideas. This year I'm going to be posting WIP threads whereever I can to try and encourage more people to get involved, and try again to get the support of the magazines and people in the trade to make this something special. Finally, onto the pre-38 thing that Hizoot raised; the rules that I found when I was originally researching this contest back in 2007 rreferenced "1937 body styles or earlier", hense the resoning behind that. it'd be hard to judge a trad Deuce against a showroom stock BMW Z8, for example... Anyway, I REALLY hope you guys will get involved and that we'll all have a great time building for this one - I'm really excited about this year and I'll keep working to make this a success Thanks for the interest! Edited February 8, 2009 by theflame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoot Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 But I'm not asking you to judge new vs old or import vs american made... All I'm asking you to do is make it something like pre 1949 to open up more creative ideas... I don't know where you info. came from BUT again, this Thom Taylor 2007 entery of a 1940 proves it to be inaccurate... Hizoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Willits Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 But I'm not asking you to judge new vs old or import vs american made... All I'm asking you to do is make it something like pre 1949 to open up more creative ideas... I don't know where you info. came from BUT again, this Thom Taylor 2007 entery of a 1940 proves it to be inaccurate... Hizoot Let me throw in another 2 cents. The definition of a roadster that I have heard all of my life is a two-seater car with a separate and/or detachable windshield. Notice the Thom Taylor car fits that description. Although it has a '40 Ford grille, it certainly doesn't look like very much else of a '40 went into that car. It's a modern, one-off, high tech car but it IS a roadster. Most auto manufacturers ended roadster production by 1937 and , I'm just guessing, that's where the cut-off date comes from. Note that a cabriolet, such as the Revell '37 Ford, is NOT a roadster due to the integral cowl and windshield and back seat. Various cars, both foreign and domestic, since the 1940's have been called "roadsters" by their manufacturers, but in fact, they were not roadsters at all,,,,they simply had a soft or removable top. Anyway,,,,,,,for any kind of contest, some rules and boundaries have to be set, so I'll go along with whatever the rules are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyclaw Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Flame; Firstly; Thanx for hearing we "BIG Scale" guys out! And thanx for for letting us prove our collective case to be able to participate; it's nice to know that you considered our points, gave them due dilligence, and made the right choice for all concerned...I know I plan to participate; and have a "special" project planned for the perusal of all involved....I hope that you get much more participation this year, and will pass the word along to my fellow modelers to get involved. Again; I look forward to getting in on this one.............Matt Burnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george 53 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thank You Jim, That IS a beautiful model, Very well concieved and executed. I seems to have Rightfully so earned the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoot Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Let me throw in another 2 cents. The definition of a roadster that I have heard all of my life is a two-seater car with a separate and/or detachable windshield. Notice the Thom Taylor car fits that description. Although it has a '40 Ford grille, it certainly doesn't look like very much else of a '40 went into that car. It's a modern, one-off, high tech car but it IS a roadster. Most auto manufacturers ended roadster production by 1937 and , I'm just guessing, that's where the cut-off date comes from. Note that a cabriolet, such as the Revell '37 Ford, is NOT a roadster due to the integral cowl and windshield and back seat. Various cars, both foreign and domestic, since the 1940's have been called "roadsters" by their manufacturers, but in fact, they were not roadsters at all,,,,they simply had a soft or removable top. Anyway,,,,,,,for any kind of contest, some rules and boundaries have to be set, so I'll go along with whatever the rules are. I doubt ANY of that is from 1940 or any other cars I've seen as of late. I agree cars since 1937 have been refered to as "roadsters" but others like the AC Cobra are considered "real roadsters". Still that's not my point as all I wish to do is see it opened up more to creative ideas as I've illustrated above... Not just for myself but for ALL builders & scales. The definition of a roadster that I'm aware of is; a vehicle designed without the side or rear windows, (new or old) the tops (cloth or hard) just being an add on... If you look at the modern AMBR winners like Boydster 1 & 2, Foose Impression & such, you'll see no detachable windshields... Hizoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas SCR Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I doubt ANY of that is from 1940 or any other cars I've seen as of late. I agree cars since 1937 have been refered to as "roadsters" but others like the AC Cobra are considered "real roadsters". Still that's not my point as all I wish to do is see it opened up more to creative ideas as I've illustrated above... Not just for myself but for ALL builders & scales. The definition of a roadster that I'm aware of is; a vehicle designed without the side or rear windows, (new or old) the tops (cloth or hard) just being an add on... If you look at the modern AMBR winners like Boydster 1 & 2, Foose Impression & such, you'll see no detachable windshields... Hizoot Hizoot that car that you are showing is listed as a 32, even if the front has a 40 style to it for some reason the owner and builders listed it as a 32 in the shows. Also remember next year show has all new rules for the AMBR, that means the Detroit winner will not be able to try for this award as it use to do in the past. Do I think it should be open up a little yes, As I would like to see any thing pre 40. AC Cobra was built to take on the Corvettes and Jags back then as there thunderbird was starting to become a bigger car. Not a lot of people remember the first few years of the Thunderbird being what you want to call a roadster or even a sports car but it did as it was a two seater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I was all up this idea with a kit picked out and everything until I saw the 1937 and older rule. I think you are pushing a LOT of cool builds out of the picture. I mean what could be cooler than a 41 Willys roadster? If it were up to me, 1948 would be a much better cut off. My $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoot Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I was all up this idea with a kit picked out and everything until I saw the 1937 and older rule. I think you are pushing a LOT of cool builds out of the picture. I mean what could be cooler than a 41 Willys roadster? If it were up to me, 1948 would be a much better cut off. My $.02 A 41 Willys roadster..? Ok, I'll try & do it, if & when they let me..! Sound great ! Hizoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davkin Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Why worry about copying the 1:1 rules anyway? This is model building and we're just having fun here, so why not just follow the spirit of the 1:1 rules? It's generally understood that street rods are pre-'49 so that seems like a logical cut off date to me. I don't know why they are such sticklers about that date for the AMBR anyway, any car that's in serious competition for that award is virtually entirely scratch built so there's no real production date for those cars. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflame Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'm not gonna split hairs guys; what difference is there between a 38 body and a 37 anyway? Davkin is right, I'm going for th SPIRIT of the rules mainly (but they're a good basis for discussion), more than copying them, so use your common sense and you'll be fine. Glad to see so much interest in this this year, I'll have to work hard to keep the momentum up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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