Ford 1949 Cooling system

[kjohan]

I am building a AMT -49 Ford and need help concerning uncertainty on the cooling systeme scheme 

On the top of the two cylinder heads there are two hoses going into the radiator
Very clear

But in the kit there is nothing in "the bottom for the water to return to the engine"

At the bottom of the engine on each side of the crank case pulley there are the two water pumps depicted,
and they shall have an inlet hole for the water, easy to drill
Have seen photos of actual engine on a stand, where these holes are connected by a pipe going across the car
On attached photo of a -49 car,  one can see a pipe going across the car in front of the anti-sway bar / behind a transverse structural beam
Is this a pipe for cooling water ? If so , how does the water flow from the radiator back to the engine ?
Or is this pipe something else ? If so, what is it ?

Have also seen photos of replacement radiators, which have two outlet holes at the bottom of the radiator, 
which seems to be natural to connect via short hoses to the holes in the respective water pumps
Perhaps these replacement have a different design vs the original one ?

= What is the correct standard/ original lay out ?

Info / advices much appreciated 
 

[Ace-Garageguy]

30 minutes ago, kjohan said:

On attached photo of a -49 car,  one can see a pipe going across the car in front of the anti-sway bar / behind a transverse structural beam
Is this a pipe for cooling water ? If so , how does the water flow from the radiator back to the engine ?
Or is this pipe something else ? If so, what is it ?

That's an exhaust crossover pipe. One exhaust manifold dumps forward, crosses over, and picks up the rest of the system on the other side.

[Ace-Garageguy]

32 minutes ago, kjohan said:

...Have also seen photos of replacement radiators, which have two outlet holes at the bottom of the radiator, 
which seems to be natural to connect via short hoses to the holes in the respective water pumps.

Yes.

[Force]

The pipe in your picture is the cross over pipe for the exhaust.

The radiator should have two outlets, one for each water pump.

[kjohan]

Thanks Bill and Håkan for fast clarification 
Very helpful

Gunnar

[kjohan]

3 hours ago, Force said:

The pipe in your picture is the cross over pipe for the exhaust.

The radiator should have two outlets, one for each water pump.

Next tricky question:
On the front right side of the engine there is an outlet for a hose to the heating system
Should be close to the water pump I presume
Cannot find any info where it connects
And it semms to be a very crowded corner
with the exhaust dump tube, one of the cooling system return hoses, the ignition coil and the distributor all in this area

= Where to connect / find space also for a heating hose ?

[Ace-Garageguy]

I think this is stock.

The upper "supply" hose comes out of a fitting in the RH head, aft of the RH upper radiator hose. There's a shutoff valve too.

The lower "return" hose goes into a fitting on the side of the RH water pump.

Not a great photo, but you can see the general routing.

Fitting for heater hose screws into hole facing the camera, in RH (passenger side) water pump.

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[NOBLNG]

Here is a link to discussion of the hose connections on the head:

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/201635-ford-flathead-v8-question/

And a pic of the water pump outlet. It looks like there are variations, so I’m not sure if this is the proper vintage.

Edited July 5, 2023 by NOBLNG

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, NOBLNG said:

Here is a link to discussion of the hose connections on the head:

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/201635-ford-flathead-v8-question/

And a pic of the water pump outlet. It looks like there are variations, so I’m not sure if this is the proper vintage.

That's an earlier pump that has been drilled and tapped for the heater hose fitting, but same idea.

[Force]

The engine in the AMT 49 Ford is a 8BA 1949-53 (8CM for Mercury) wich replaced the older 59AB and the 8BA was the last flat head engine for Ford and it was replaced with the Y-block 1954 wich was Ford's first OHV V8.
The thing with the AMT kits are that the engine in the kit is very simplified and some things are not there so it's not that easy to get it right as it doesn't look as it should, the water pumps are very simple, the exhaust manifolds are casted in and things like that.
The flathead in the 1949 Mercury is slightly better but definately not perfect, it has separate exhaust manifolds and the cross over pipe, but the water pumps are like the 49 Ford, very simple and does not look like the real thing.

[kjohan]

Håkan Greg and Bill

Thanks for your inputs

My suspicion was confirmed : the heater hose comes out down in the crowded corner
Found a way to sneak in the hose, though not entirely correct, but at least there will be one there.

Agree with Håkan ; there are several simplifications
though I must also give some understanding for this, as particularly the front end of the engine is quite crowded.
Not so easy to mold / create parts, space and assembly order for them there.
Will make my best to make something similar, though being an amateur builder, it will be definetly rather crude
Fun anyway and these communications on this forum and internet searches to find information is quite entertaining.
Fob me a big part of the pleasure in model car building
 

[Force]

7 hours ago, kjohan said:

Håkan Greg and Bill

Thanks for your inputs

My suspicion was confirmed : the heater hose comes out down in the crowded corner
Found a way to sneak in the hose, though not entirely correct, but at least there will be one there.

Agree with Håkan ; there are several simplifications
though I must also give some understanding for this, as particularly the front end of the engine is quite crowded.
Not so easy to mold / create parts, space and assembly order for them there.
Will make my best to make something similar, though being an amateur builder, it will be definetly rather crude
Fun anyway and these communications on this forum and internet searches to find information is quite entertaining.
Fob me a big part of the pleasure in model car building
 

Yes the research on a subject is allmost as fun as building it.

But when it comes to mold/create parts it can't be that hard, the Revell Ford Flatheads are a lot more detailed. but on the other hand they are a lot more modern tooling, the 1949 was deveopled in the early 1960's and the Revell kit's in the mid 2010's...there's the difference.
We expect a lot more from the kits developed today than what was expected back then and the kits they develop today are a lot more accurate and detailed...not allways but often.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Force

[kjohan]

On 7/4/2023 at 8:16 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yes.

 

On 7/4/2023 at 8:15 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

That's an exhaust crossover pipe. One exhaust manifold dumps forward, crosses over, and picks up the rest of the system on the other side.

 

Coming back to this old topic of the exhaus cross over pipe
Is it so that this crossover pipe was used on cars, which had only a single exhaust pipe ?
The AMT 49 coupe kit I´m working on has two "full length" pipes , one on each side of the car

Is the crossover pipe thereby superfluous / not used/ omitted / not installed ?
There is no such cross over in the kit.
And the car from which I had a photo with the crossover, actually had only one exhaust pipe.

So the kit may be correct, two exhaust pipes = no cross over ?

Then comes the obvious question : which -49 V8 cars had single pipe and which had two pipes ?

Sorry for bothering with old topic , but ....
Gunnar

[kjohan]

Looked once more in the build instruction

There were two "boxes" for final assembly, one for stock execution and one for custom.
The stock instruction actually showed only one exhaust (on the right side) , but the custom instruction showed two
Was not observant here
So I have installed two pipes/mufflers  with appropriate amounts of glue and pinning the joints
and thereafter the rear axle in place

= no way to take away the superfluous left one without risks for damage

= It will stay, 

Silly but this obviously happens.
Age .....? 

/ Gunnar

[Force]

The cross over pipe is only used with single exhaust so with dual exhaust it's not needed.
But the engines in this kit are quite simplified and the exhaust manifolds are casted to the block sides instead of being separate parts and the cross over pipe that should have been there for the stock version was never in the kit.
The 1950 Convertible is even worse, similar simplified engine, no cross over pipe and the single exhaust system is casted into the chassis.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Force