Beating my favorite dead horse: stupid (or intentionally awful) engineering

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

[ksnow]

Behind the hub mounted brake rotors, first generation Colorados/Canyons.

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 minutes ago, ksnow said:

Behind the hub mounted brake rotors, first generation Colorados/Canyons.

Yup. I've seen that one. Isn't there a Ford...maybe the Transit...that does something equally stupid too?

[ksnow]

1 minute ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yup. I've seen that one. Isn't there a Ford...maybe the Transit...that does something equally stupid too?

Not sure on that, I was strictly GM, and have up wrenching in 2011.

The level of stupid then was getting bad enough. I think I got out just in time.

Retractable hard tops (XLR) were fun to work on too.

[iamsuperdan]

A couple of my favourite bits of engineering.

C4 Corvette. To access the battery for replacement, you need to remove a body panel.

Chevy Lumina, again, to access the battery for replacement, you need to remove an engine brace, the washer fluid tank, and then the airbox gets in the way. One could do it without removing the airbox, but it's probably less frustrating to just take it out.

 

And on vehicles Iactually own:

 

2006 Volvo XC90 - replacing the front foglights. Driver side is easy, lots of room to get underneath, unbolt the light assembly, and replace. Passenger side requires removal of one computer module and the washer fluid tank, which ultimately means removing the RF wheel and inner fender liner too.

Chevrolet/GMC GMT400 trucks/SUVs - inner door handles are made of plastic, so they break. And from factory, the door handle assembly is riveted in to the door. So drill out the rivets, then when putting the new handle in, just use normal screws. Because that door handle WILL break again. Despite that, these are still my favourite truck ever. 

[ksnow]

And there's always those early 90s W-Body (GM) DOHC alternators. Disassemble the RF suspension to remove.

"Sir, you need an alternator and an alignment for your charging issue."

[sfhess]

Some Honda Civics and Integras require the passenger side axle to be removed to take out the alternator.

[iamsuperdan]

Oooh, and the mid-90s GM V6 cars that need to have the entire engine tilted forward to access the rear spark plugs.

 

[Tim W. SoCal]

Jeep Gladiator Diesel, the turbocharger wastegate controller fails and the cab has to be removed to access the turbocharger.

[Tim W. SoCal]

I guess I won't complain about needing to remove the power brake booster to access #8 spark plug in the 302 Mavericks and Comets from the 70s.

[johnyrotten]

2 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

Oooh, and the mid-90s GM V6 cars that need to have the entire engine tilted forward to access the rear spark plugs.

 

Corsica,lumina,ect. I remember working on those well. 2.8-3.8l engines. Some liked to eat intake gaskets. 

Edited Monday at 10:52 PM by johnyrotten

[johnyrotten]

Front fascia has to be moved foward to remove the radiator on most later 2000's vw products. And I'll bring up removing the DOORSKIN to change the window motor on mkv jetta's and golfs. 

Edited Monday at 11:00 PM by johnyrotten

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 minutes ago, johnyrotten said:

Front fascia has to be moved foward to remove the radiator on most later 2000's vw products. And I'll bring up removing the DOORSKIN to change the window motor on mkv jetta's and golfs. 

Yup, I've seen that one too.

[Tim W. SoCal]

5 minutes ago, johnyrotten said:

Corsica,lumina,ect. I remember working on those well. 2.8-3.8l engines. Some liked to eat intake gaskets.

Chevrolet Citation, Pontiac Phoenix, Oldsmobile Omega, Buick Skylark and Cadillac Cimmeron also. ('79-'85 GM X Bodies)

[Ace-Garageguy]

Then there's plastic intake manifolds and anything plastic under the hood in general.

Heat makes many plastics dry and shrink and/or crumble, kiddies.

There's a plastic coolant elbow (a cheap small part, easily accessed) on some fairly late-model Jags that's destroyed a fair few engines when oblivious owners tried to keep driving with the temp needle off the scale.

One woman I knew not only seized her engine, but after we replaced it, we found it got SO hot that every seal inside the transmission was cooked too...and of course NO INTERNAL SERVICE PARTS were available.

After spending $10K on the engine replacement, she balked at the $6K more for a used gearbox and junked it.

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This was, of course, someone who shouldn't have had a nice car in the first place.

Earlier in this poor Jag's life, she'd left her dog locked in it, and the animal shredded the dash top and seat backs.

Bad dog? No. Idiot owner.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:47 PM by Ace-Garageguy
punctiliousness

[iamsuperdan]

The Volkswagen VR6 engine was fantastic. However...

THere is a coolant pipe that runs along the front of the engine. It is of course, made from plastic. Well as you might guess, after a few years of hot coolant, cold temperatures, and hot engines, that plastic gets brittle, and it WILL fail. Luckily, the aftermarket has a fix for VW's "crackpipe."

 

And on a related note, the first generation Porsche Cayenne S. This one came with a 4.5L V8 that is a sweet, sweet engine. People should be swapping this into vehicles instead of the LS.

Anyway, it has a flaw. The plastic coolant pipe...that runs in the V of the engine. Of course, it will always fail. And of course, the aftermarket has a bulletproof aluminum replacement. But the labour involved to get to it is ridiculous.

Still...I've been eyeballing those first gen Cayenne S models. They're inexpensive to buy, parts are not as ridiculous as people think, and they are fun to drive; on road, off road, and on a track.

 

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

5 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

Oooh, and the mid-90s GM V6 cars that need to have the entire engine tilted forward to access the rear spark plugs.

 

Thanks for reminding me of what fun that was on the Pontiac Grand Prix 3800 Series II engine.

Also, the BMW E90 electric water pump. Besides the more than $500 price tag, the 'easy' way to get to it is to remove the front bumper. 

[Deathgoblin]

Let's see...  Headlight bulb changes on a 2009 Chevy Malibu.  Have to remove the nose of the car to change because the headlight units are bolted to the front bulkhead with no passthrough.  I'll admit I found an easier way later where you can unbolt/unsnap the top edge of the nose and slide your hand in and just unbolt the side of the headlight unit and get the bulb changed.   Had a 1998 Cadillac DeVille Concours with the 4.3L Northstar. They used too small bolts to hold down the heads, so after a while they start to strip out and you get coolant leaks/blown head gaskets. The engine can be rebuilt (engine out) and the bolt can be drilled/tapped to use LS1 bolts. And my most recent folly, 2011 GMC Acadia.  The engine loses oil through the PCV and you have to watch the oil levels like a hawk.  If it loses more than a little bit of oil, the timing chains overheat and stretch a little.  First it'll just lose a little power and show a code the timing is off.  After a while it jumps time (like when the alternator has just failed and been replaced) and it's an engine out job to repair.  

[1972coronet]

The world famous composite intake manifold on the Ford 4,6 / 5,4 litre engines. 

The 1991-1997 (-ish) manifold was the worst, with its plastic coolant crossovers.

That part was revised and improved for c.1998 - present [?] ; I remember seeing intake manifolds - in factory boxes - with an F8 ( 1998 ) part number. Those have the aluminium coolant crossovers. 

There was an all-aluminium intake for the 4,6 (not sure if it fits the 5,4) , but it's long ago discontinued . IIRC, it was on the Bullitt models , maybe the Cobra-R as well. 

The weak link on a durable, powerful engine ( excepting the crummy 3-valve Triton , which is a real piece of it ).

I can't wait to replace the intake on my '04 'P71' ( et alia ) Crown Vic. ! yep, it's sweating at the heater hose / coolant crossover on the right-rear of the intake... 

And, yes, it's being replaced with a Made in the USA part ( Summit Racing ) .

[ksnow]

I still have flashbacks doing the oil coolers on Cadillac Cateras and 1st gen CTS's. It sat in a coolant bath in the valley. And the little seals ALWAYS leaked.

[iamsuperdan]

On the flip side, VW actually made it easy on one vehicle.

The early T4 generation Transporter/Eurovan/Caravelle.

They put the entire front grille and radiator assemble on a hinge so that it could be easily moved out of the way to access the front of the engine. Not much different than opening the hood. 

 

 

[ksnow]

36 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

On the flip side, VW actually made it easy on one vehicle.

The early T4 generation Transporter/Eurovan/Caravelle.

They put the entire front grille and radiator assemble on a hinge so that it could be easily moved out of the way to access the front of the engine. Not much different than opening the hood. 

 

 

That engineer got fired, LOL.

GM did put an access cover in the trunk of their later full size cars so you could more easily do a fuel pump/sending unit, through the trunk. Always nice when the customer kept every shopping bag they ever had in the trunk.

[Ace-Garageguy]

10 minutes ago, ksnow said:

That engineer got fired, LOL.

GM did put an access cover in the trunk of their later full size cars so you could more easily do a fuel pump/sending unit, through the trunk. Always nice when the customer kept every shopping bag they ever had in the trunk.

Early PTs, you had to drop the tank to do a pump. Second year, I think, they put an access panel in the rear floor too.

Lotsa pickups you have to remove the bed or drop the tank, if possible, to do fuel pumps.

I put an access panel in my '89 GMC bed floor, will probably need to do the same in the '92 Silverado shortly.

Edited Tuesday at 02:55 PM by Ace-Garageguy

[ksnow]

We usually tipped the bed up sideways to do the fuel tanks on trucks, pre 1999 models. After that the bumpers were too dang close to the bed, and you had to lift the bed up. SUV's had to drop the tank, which sucked.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Sad thing is that with not much more effort at all, CAD makes it entirely possible to design for easy service.

First obviously CAD-designed car I encountered was a '92 Nissan Stanza IIRC.

Low oil pressure, lifters clattering, and I found a "secret recall" at the time concerning the timing chain tensioner.

Seems the plastic facing on some tensioners would slough off, and the flakes were about the same density as engine oil.

They'd stay suspended in the oil and clog the pickup screen.

First symptom was ticking lifters on a low-mileage engine, then a flickering idiot light, then constant on.

Diagnosis: drain the oil and strain it through a stocking. If there were flakes present, drop the pan, clean the screen, then replace the tensioner.

When I opened the hood and looked at it, I was about certain the engine would have to come out to do the chain tensioner.

But no...I decided to just dive into it and see if I could wiggle and trick everything out.

Surprisingly, it had been intentionally designed so that there was just barely enough room and clearances at the ends of studs, etc., so it came apart quite easily and logically.

I was blown away impressed, and figured that if CAD-designed cars would be like this in the future, the rest of my life would be far less maddening.

Boy, was I wrong.

* Interestingly, Nissan would pay an independent to do the repair, presumably in order to not get too much of a black eye from a model-wide dealer recall program, as not all the cars were affected and they didn't seem to know which ones got the bad tensioners.

This wasn't, however, an isolated event. Later, a class-action lawsuit against Nissan emerged concerning similar timing chain problems in the VQ35/VQ40 engines, resulting in a settlement for affected owners. The prevalence of this issue across different Nissan engines illustrates a pattern of using plastic components in the timing system that proved less durable than expected. 

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I'm kinda wondering how big the class action numbers are going to be for the impending industry-wide wet-timing-belt debacle.

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:30 PM by Ace-Garageguy
punctiliousness