Any one done this?

[slant6]

It might be a long shot, but I figure if there's a way, someone on here has done. I want to do a working convertible top, maybe even a hardtop convertible. Any one ever done this? And if so, do you have instructions?

[Peter Lombardo]

Well, Will, A few years ago Bill Geary began a 196X (I don't remember the year) GTO convertible with a beautiful working convertible top mechanism. I don't think he has completed it yet, at least I haven't seen it completed, but I remember seeing it on the primer table at an NNL East a few years ago. The mechanism is all brass and a thing of beauty. Hey Bill, if you have not completed that yet, you really should because it was very impressive back than, you sure know how to solder.

I have built two pick up trucks with motorized tops that retract into the pick up bed. There is not a set of instructions for such a thing that I am aware of. I winged it. It worked pretty well. One of the trucks has 5 motors mounted under the truck in a wooden stand. The hood, each door, the top and the tonneau each had a motor, and while I was at it, I powered all of the lights too.

One day I want to build a working top on the 62 T Bird and I would like to motorize the Revell '59 Ford Sunliner kit that is on my shelf. We'll see...it just depends on time.

[Eshaver]

Peter- Bill, ya'all are toooooooooo much !!!!!!!!!!!! Ed Shaver

[Harry P.]

If Bill Geary can't get it done... how is a mere mortal supposed to get it done???

Seriously, though... to build a 1/24-25 scale operating convertible top is incredibly difficult... especially if you want it to not only function but be anywhere even close to scale fidelity. The problem is functionality/strength vs. scale accuracy, which is nearly impossible to do.

I've built a 1/8 scale operating top (Pocher kit), and even at that large size it's hard to do. At such a small scale (1/24-25) you'd need skills and patience that not many people possess. It's not impossible, but it's maybe a bigger job than you realize.

Not that I'm trying to talk you out of it... but in my opinion if you're actually going to try it you're in for some headaches...

[Seattle Mike]

If I remember correctly, Bill ran into problems finding some material that was thin and supple enough to fold correctly. His frame mechanism was really well done, but the lack of top material seemed to grind him to a halt.

[MrObsessive]

Mike, you're exactly right! I couldn't find material that folded up and looked in scale for that type------so the project came to a screeching halt.

Getting the top frame itself to work was time consuming enough, (I still have it) but if you're able to get thin enough material to look in scale, AND make a folding rear window, AND getting it to be in the up position without wrinkles............go for it! I used an actual '64 LeMans GTO body shop manual to get the shape and hinge knuckles in scale for the top frame.

Part of my job is micro soldering so that's where some of the soldering know-how comes from.

Here's some pics of the top frame in its various stages of movement and development..............

Here's the car the last time I was working on it a few years ago-----------

I have since put it away with maybe someday working on it. ALL the working windows have since warped and curled up like potato chips as I used the wrong type acetate for them. Also the driver's side window no longer winds up and down. It would require completely tearing the car down to get new windows in and fixing the driver's side.

Maybe next year...............

Edited November 1, 2009 by MrObsessive

[MrObsessive]

Just so you don't think your eyes are playing tricks on you..............that's NOT the folding top material in the above pic! I ended up using the hardtop that was cut off and fashioned it into a convertible uptop.

I can remember seeing Pontiacs of that vintage with pale blue tops, so I wanted the GTO to have one. If it wasn't for the warped windshield and side glass, it would be sitting pretty somewhere in a display case by now.

Oh well..............that's modeling for ya!

[slant6]

Thats freakin sweet...but Im not quite there yet. I know it would be tough, but thats just nuts. BTW, Im sure you thought of it, but did you try silk for the top?

[MrObsessive]

Ya, I thought about silk for the top, but attaching it to the frame would have been the difficulty. Some very thin leather would be perfect, because at least you could attach it to the frame with super glue (sparingly!). But then you'd have the wrinkles to deal with.

For the rear window, I had thought about using a plastic dropcloth for such............but then I can't remember now how I would attach it to the top!

Harry, I have Danbury Mint's excellent 1/12 1964½ Mustang----and its folding top is EXCELLENT! It folds beautifully and looks just like the 1:1 when in the top is up. Whatever material they are using is excellent for that scale.

Edited November 1, 2009 by MrObsessive

[Harry P.]

Harry, I have Danbury Mint's excellent 1/12 1964½ Mustang----and its folding top is EXCELLENT! It folds beautifully and looks just like the 1:1 when in the top is up. Whatever material they are using is excellent for that scale.

And I have their 1/12 '57 Bel Air...

but 1/12 is twice the size of 1/24...

[BigGary]

And I have their 1/12 '57 Bel Air...

but 1/12 is twice the size of 1/24...

Now I know why Bill's screen name is "Mr. Obsessive". You would have to be obsessed to even think of doing a convertible top for 24 or 25th scale! But its an outstanding idea!

Gary

[Harry P.]

Actually Bill has the problem 99% solved... the articulating framework is the hard part, and he's got that done. Finding a suitable material for the actual top shouldn't be too hard. I think silk would work, it's very thin and very flexible. Maybe even a piece of linen or a small piece of bedsheet with a really high thread count. The trick would be cutting the material oversized and folding and gluing the "flaps" around the metal framework without having the glue show through the material on the outside.

[Ragnar]

I did a folding top for a 36 Ford about Thirty years ago. I used thin brass, soda can material, and brass rod to make the folding frame. Everything was cut to size with a Nibbler, and a drimel tool, then finished to the correct shape with Jeweler's files. I used thin China Silk, the stuff used by the free flight model aircraft guys to cover their super light weight rubber band powered airplanes. I dyed it with Ritz Fabric dye. When the Dye was Dry I cut out my top canvas using tinplates I made from studind the real thing. I attached the top canvas using contact cement that was sold at the same hobby shop where I bought the China Silk, it was a very thin cement that you brushed on both parts and then let stand for about 15min. before attaching the pieces together, This Stuff was VERY UNFORGIVING. I figured I had put over two hundred hours into that top. Even though the model won several awards over the year after I finished it, I have never made another working convertible top. It was Just to much of a pain to do!!!

CHEERS!

[Foxer]

You guys are making me sweat. Those tops are flimsy on a 1:1 car, never mind to scale! That is incredible work, Bill ... INCREDIBLE! There HAS to be a fabric that would work, but it seems the right glue that doesn't build up and stiffen everything might be the toughest part to come up with.

And, Ragnar! ...You don't still have that Ford do you?? Would LOVE to see some pics if so. That's more amazing considering the materials, or lack thereof, 30 years ago!

[FujimiLover]

What about a piece from you cotton T-shirt? I've used a small scrap of that for a headliner material and it worked okay.

Should be the right scale appearance for convertible top?

[MrObsessive]

Well, another problem Marc would be how to keep the fabric from fraying after it's cut. Believe me, I tried every conceivable type of fabric when I was trying to build this during 2003-04...........nothing looked in scale to me, or was too difficult to work with in the first place.

I didn't want the model to have all the bells and whistles of working features, and then have a frumpy looking up top that didn't suit the rest of the car.

[Jon Cole]

A tip of the hat to both Bill and Ragnar for your endeavors. It's more than I could ever pull off.

If the attempt to do a functioning top fails to win the gold, maybe aim for the silver? A fixed position up-top with the framework inside would work. That would give you a frame to try stretching various materials on. If nothing seems to look right for a covering that may work on a functioning top at a later date, then perhaps wide masking tape would suffice for a fixed roof.

It's a shame to leave such a masterpiece in a box

[Terror]

Hey Bill,that frame is insane.Have you tried surgical cloth tape?Just a thought.Great work BTW.

[Starliner Kustoms]

Hey Bill, about a couple of years ago I was in a fabric store and found a product called Bondex by Wrights. It's a pressure sensitive nylon patch for jackets, tote bags and things of the like.. They come in a variety of colors including white, black, blue, etc. Each piece is about 3" x 7" and it has an adhesive backing. It's very flexible and conforms to most any configuration. In fact I found the link. ( http://www.jkmribbon.com/wholesale-bondex-patches.htm ) I hope this helps everyone. Let me know if you try it. Till then,happy modeling....

Bernie

[MrObsessive]

Thanks Bernie!

There's a fabric shop that's just across the river from me. When I'm able to get around better, I'll check it out!

[Lyle Willits]

Here's the car Bill was modelling,,,,,,,,,,even if he didn't know it.

[novadose71]

Hey Bill,

I see your (incredible) stalled frame and picture a barn find project (THE Z-16 Chevelle convt. comes to mind) with a nearly gone fabric top, tattered interior, faded paint, dents.....the works. Then you could see that beautiful framework operate and not worry too much about the fabric.................. though it would be strange to see one of your projects that wasn't spotless.

[MrObsessive]

That's the exact car I had in mind Lyle! Although I've never seen that one before in person, even though it's got PA antique plates on it. Was that taken at the York Fairgrounds at the Rte. 30 Reunion?

Hey Bill,

I see your (incredible) stalled frame and picture a barn find project (THE Z-16 Chevelle convt. comes to mind) with a nearly gone fabric top, tattered interior, faded paint, dents.....the works. Then you could see that beautiful framework operate and not worry too much about the fabric.................. though it would be strange to see one of your projects that wasn't spotless.

Someone mentioned that idea to me a couple years ago..............I still have the frame although it's no longer in the car. It still folds up after all this time! A Z-16 Chevelle would work for this frame too as the GM midsize '64-'65 cars used the same type of folding top mechanism.

[Lyle Willits]

Yeah. York reunion and muscle car mania,,,,,,from 2006, I think.

[Ddms]

Silk comes in many weights, some extremely light and thin, so it seems like the best bet to me. My wife is a graduate textile engineer and she's Chinese. So she knows a thing or two about silk!

If anyone runs into a specific problem with the cloth, let me know and I'll ask her for suggestions.