LEATHER COVERED INTERIORS.

[Jeff Sauber]

Which part of calling people "morans" and issuing multiple insults is "not tearing someone down," with whom he disagrees? Why can't he just state his piece without assuming to know the motivations of the people he disagrees with, and resisting the urge to insult people?

Not sure how "honorable" that is.

Yup, quite true....quite true....

Seems that the CONTRADICTION force is strong on this thread.....

Edited February 26, 2010 by J. Sauber

[Karmodeler2]

Hmmm... How did that old saying go?

If you didn't agree with what he has to say, go somewhere else. It's as simple as that.

What great advece. If you don't agree with what I have to say, then you go somewhere else.....or is this the double standard you like so much?

Sometimes your own medicine is the best one for you.

David

[Junkman]

No leather. No tutorial. No interior.

[Zoom Zoom]

That's the way to go... unless you can find 1/24 scale leather!

Agreed 1000%.

A good scale appearance to leather can be as simple as adding a semigloss/satin clear to either flat or gloss paints. I find my best results don't come from merely spraying a single-stage color for leather seats, but spraying a base color (whatever I have; color is more important that whether it is gloss, semigloss, or flat), and then airbrushing the appropriate layers of "satin clear" over it. I tend to do a bit of mixing; I have cans of semigloss & flat Tamiya spray clears, I decant them and do a little mixing for just the right "satin" sheen. Until someone makes in-scale leather texture, my own eyes far prefer using paint vs. real leather on a 1/24 or 1/25 scale model. Larger scales may be a far more appropriate canvas for using the "real" product.

A guy I knew used to love putting real fabric "upholstery" into his models. He got a kick out of it, he was quite proud of it. I thought it looked pretty tacky most of the time as the scale thickness was way off for a model, but as long as he was happy, I was happy. He was humble and never went around claiming any sort of fame. He enjoyed sharing his techniques, but in a very approachable, infectious manner. He inspired with his enthusiasm with never an air of superiority, embellishment, or contradictions. He was greatly inspired by Joe Cavorley who used to give demos at the shows he attended, and wanted to share what he learned w/all his friends that didn't get to see Joe's demos in person. Neither of them gave anyone an "Emperor has no clothes" kind of vibe. Sadly, both of them are no longer with us.

[Zoom Zoom]

This epic thread isn't complete without:

[Harry P.]

Yep, Bob just said exactly what I think, too. Real leather just doesn't look "real" on a 1/24 scale model.

Most leather car seats have very little surface texture, some are in fact completely smooth. Any texture the leather has would virtually disappear at 1/24 scale. A much more realistic "leather" appearance can be had with paint.

That's not to say I don't appreciate the skill and craftsmanship that goes with installing leather interiors on a model car... but it just doesn't look realistic, IMO. Impressive, maybe, in a "wow, I can't believe you did that" sort of way, but not realistic.

[Junkman]

Yep, Bob just said exactly what I think, too. Real leather just doesn't look "real" on a 1/24 scale model.

Most leather car seats have very little surface texture, some are in fact completely smooth. Any texture the leather has would virtually disappear at 1/24 scale. A much more realistic "leather" appearance can be had with paint.

That's not to say I don't appreciate the skill and craftsmanship that goes with installing leather interiors on a model car... but it just doesn't look realistic, IMO. Impressive, maybe, in a "wow, I can't believe you did that" sort of way, but not realistic.

See, that's exactly why I wanted to learn how to apply real leather.

For my 1/24-5 models, I always use Revell semi gloss paint and apply it with a paint brush of all things. I am very satisfied with the authentic look this generates.

But - you guessed it - there is a but.

These old Hubley/Gabriel metal kits are far from realistic to begin with. I love them just for that. I call it 'character', a bit like an old Tonka toy or a Märklin locomotive has. A real leather interior would admittedly not look as realistic as paint, but oh would it nicely ooze character in a Hubley, ay? Add to this the complete absence of door panels, which I thought I might have learned how to make in this thread. See where I'm coming from?

Edited February 26, 2010 by Junkman

[Zoom Zoom]

Junkman has a point; those Hubley kits have the kind of "character" that real (out-of-scale) leather upholstery would complement.

Now let's see if this tutorial actually gets anywhere after the "break"

[Harry P.]

See, that's exactly why I wanted to learn how to apply real leather.

For my 1/24-5 models, I always use Revell semi gloss paint and apply it with a paint brush of all things. I am very satisfied with the authentic look this generates.

But - you guessed it - there is a but.

These old Hubley/Gabriel metal kits are far from realistic to begin with. I love them just for that. I call it 'character', a bit like an old Tonka toy or a Märklin locomotive has. A real leather interior would admittedly not look as realistic as paint, but oh would it have nicely oozed character in a Hubley, ay? Add to this the complete absence of door panels, which I thought I might have learned how to make in this thread. See where I'm coming from?

Door panels are easy enough to make out of styrene sheet. Do a google image search, find some reference pix and you're good to go.

Don't know what scale the model you're talking about is, but I still say real leather would be out of scale. I use real leather on my 1/8 Pocher kits... I think I can get away with it at that size, but anything smaller and the illusion of reality (which is the whole point of a "scale model") is lost.

[Harry P.]

Christian, check out the photo Mark just posted.

That looks a heck of a lot more like leather than real leather would in that scale.

[Junkman]

Hence my expectation was that after the 'teaser' pics and some initial generic explanation of the principles, the in depth step by step tutorial would commence. Alas, this was imho suddenly interrupted.

[Scale-Master]

Hmmm... How did that old saying go?

Oh yeah!

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Dave was just trying to help out with leather detailing. If you don't agree with what he has to show, go somewhere else. It's as simple as that.

He showed us his work with chroming. If you didn't agree with what he has to say, go somewhere else. It's as simple as that.

He is trying to make people happy, by helping them learn. If you don't want his help, go somewhere else. It's as simple as that

If you have problems typing fast, you probably need to go to a whole different website. It's as simple as that.

But if you have something constructive to say without tearing someone down, you are more than welcome to add your say.

As for scale asylum, I've seen what people had to say about others here. I just have the courtesy not to spill the beans on your opinions, like the guy who laid into George, but it does remind me of another forum that has the same initials...

I applaud you Jody for your input. You are an honorable person.

Why am I not allowed the same rights to ask Dave to simply to clarify his statements as he was afforded when he made them? This is an open forum. I did not swear, or “beat up on him†and as uncomfortable as what I wrote maybe for some to digest, it is not dishonest or misleading. I dare say in my opinion what Dave posted is both.

Why are we deemed by you to “have a problem†if someone is being less than honest and we simply ask for clarification, you know, proof?

What is the reason for all the negativity directed at those who only ask for something to be explained? The only flaming is from people who have chosen to insert themselves into the discussion without offering anything constructive. I have not flamed Dave.

Apparently those who are taking issue with Dave being asked to show us what he claims he has done are having problems comprehending my questions and comments and it the spirit in which they are being presented. Let me be a little clearer.

We all have opinions. I don’t care how much anyone may disagree, but my opinion is just that, not an issue to be deemed right or wrong, it’s just my point of view, just like yours. So being offensive or name calling does nothing but cloud the issues.

If I say “I scratch-built the wheels on my modelâ€, that is stated as a fact. Call me on it you don’t believe me. It becomes my responsibility to present proof. Not a reason to attack the person(s) making the observation or posing the question.

If I say “I invented spray cansâ€, that also is stated as a fact. Call me on it you don’t believe me. Obviously I did not invent spray cans and so I would not be able to back it up. And I do believe a statement like that by anyone (except maybe David Susan) would elicit a response of disbelief from the members of the forum, as it should. But again that does not mean it is open season to demean the person(s) asking for proof of the original claim. Nor does it mean it is OK to use swearing towards anyone even if the are being dishonest.

I do recall clearly stating that I and others have quietly not said anything for quite sometime, but come on, Dave opened the door, and he started the topic!

All I asked was for him to back up what he said. And I still would like him to do so. Is that tearing him down? Is that bashing his work or talent? Absolutely not. And to intimate otherwise is just plain dishonest or ignorance. You choose which fits.

It is not a case of disagreeing with what he has to show, it is case of asking him to back up his claims of what he said he did. How many times does that have to be stated?

And really, the person he is “trying to make happy†is himself. And there is nothing wrong with that. But that does not grant him the right to state falsehoods either, at least without the possibility of someone calling him on it.

What does the speed at which one types have to do with the issue? Please elaborate on that. And when you do respond, please make use of the spell check feature, if you “acnâ€.

Again, asking for answers is not tearing someone down, but from the tone of your posts it seems you have no problem blindly supporting your friend at the expense of the reality of the situation.

And George 53, why are you apologizing to Dave? Just seems odd.

And if being our being honest is going to make you loose respect for us, then I for one don’t need your kind of respect. How many awards I or anyone else has won compared to anyone else is irrelevant. I don’t measure my worth or skill level by the awards I’ve earned, but since you seem to attribute the amount of awards to some sort of class, do some research about my track record before you shoot your mouth off and try to put me down. You may also want to do some research and see how many How-to’s online and in our host’s magazine I have done. Care to share your credentials? Your ignorance speaks volumes. (This is opinion folks, not a flame. See my points above please. We are allowed opinions, hence George 53’s rant…)

And as for thinning out leather. Believe it or not, I have some experience on this issue, but I did not invent the technique. I figured it out by trial and error, as most people do using common sense.

Cut a much larger piece than you’ll need and tape it down to a smooth hard surface, I prefer glass, but a table top will work too. I like duct tape. Secure one edge and then stretch and secure the opposite edge. Do the same thing for the other two edges. Smooth and taut with no wrinkles is the goal.

Using a new razor blade, drag it with the grain at about a 45 degree angle. Scrape the leather, don’t try to shave it. Try to uniformly remove material, not just in the center. After some progress, untape and check, repeat the process if needed. Much like sanding or polishing.

To apply your leather to the part(s) I prefer to use garment hemming tape for adhesion. You can get it at any fabric store. Jo-Ann’s is where I got mine. I supplement the tape with CA around the edges and inside, but use caution as it can soak through and discolor the material.

I don’t use it on 1/24 scale seats, to me it is generally best suited for large scale models. Works for me… But build it for you…

Oh, if anyone would like some tips for making patterns, just ask…

[Jeff Sauber]

You know, I normally stay far away from these things, but i do have something to say about this "tutorial":

It seems to me that in the beginning of this "tutorial", there was 18 pictures of examples of leather applied to interiors. This piqued everyone's interest. How do we do it? What's involved? Where can I find supplies?

then our "tutor" gave us the "history" of how he tracked down the these perfect materials for the task. He did not however, tell us the source of his magic material, other than a "leather store or thrift shop. Do these places have a website to order from? a phone #? enven an address to contact them for materials. That would allow some of us to get the product & immediately try the technique. I know that he also stated that the material selection should be "hands-on" but again, some of us just want the information (which was added later on (thickness & what to look for) to get started immediately.

Then there is the "...same tan leather that appears bumpy in other pics, due to how I "Enhanced" the leather with a little helpful processing..." What is this? Elaboration is needed. do we stretch the leather? how long will it take for the glue to dry? how long does it take to complete the process? What is the process? do you have "in progress shots?

Speaking of technique, "old school Testors tube glue" to attach the material doesn't quite cut it for me. in some of those pics, it seems that the seats may have been "thinned" so that when the leather is applied, the seats don't look too "big". I don't think this was ever mentioned, although is seems that it would be an obvious step to me. Again, this is far from a complete tutorial in my book.

Maybe I am wrong, but a step by step is needed here. Not just 20 something pictures of completed work.

In summary, I do not see this as a tutorial. Especially when we are told that we need to find the materials, learn the techniques & trial and error ourselves until we can also achieve this type of greatness in interior finishing. A tutorial, to me, would show step by step, the processes involved in creating this type of custom interior. Not just the finished product(s).

I'm not commenting on the "mystery Chrome" since that, to me, also seems to be the same situation; lots of fluff, but no filler. Besides, it really needs to be a separate topic (dueling downward spirals of flaming fail would be pretty impressive...)

let me Reiterate this also: I am in no way, shape, or form, disparaging the work that has been done, or the person who has done it. I'm just left a little empty by this so-called "tutorial" that has brought up many more questions than answers....

Very well put....

I did think the leather tutorial had some potential, especially for the larger scale modelers who have more room to negotiate scale fidelity, but for 1/24-1/25 the leather stuff is grossly out of scale.......it's cool to see somebody fabricate that stuff, but it's still severely out of scale.

I'm more intrigued by the mystery chrome however, since that topic can apply to the masses.

Us modelers are always looking for chrome alternatives no matter what scale we work in, but I have a feeling that this secret chrome nonsense is just that.......Nonsense.

The images posted did look a little shiney but a bit more like polished aluminum rather than chrome..

As far as the claim of inventing the airbrush and scratchbuilding parts [that are apparantly mass produced kit parts], leaves alot to be desired as well.

If your going to make big claims such as these, you had better be ready to get called on them, especially by experienced builders.....besides, any good clinic or seminar usually ends with a vigorous question and answer session....If nobody asks any questions how is anything supposed to be learned?

I guess a snake oil salesman needs to carefully pic his customers, otherwise things are not going to go well......especially if the customers are more experienced than the salesman.

[Tumbler75]

Thanx, I was so lookin' forward to learning something new.

[Junkman]

Oh, if anyone would like some tips for making patterns, just ask…

Yes, this simulating stitching or seams or piping is what I would like to learn.

[Jeff Sauber]

is this some sort of Pun??? cause if it is, Bravo! that seems to be EXACTLY what has happened here...

I suppose you could call it a humerous use of a word....

In all seriousness, this thread was sort of destined to fail since the clinician seemed to be poorly prepared to give a clear and concise instructional tutorial and was just not ready to conduct a tough question and answer session.

It sort of seemed to me as a "self-backpatting" exercise for the TS in a way.....Kinda dangling the bait and then pulling it away after at the first few nibbles.

Edited February 26, 2010 by J. Sauber

[sjordan2]

Leather tutorial coming right up, from Alex Kustov (you'll note that he did interior leather accents, not the seats):

http://www.italianhorses.net/Tutorials/Leather%20101/lthr.htm

Plus other fine tutorials:

http://www.italianhorses.net/Tutorials/tutorials.htm

And Scale-Master's technique described above sounds pretty good.

[Harry P.]

Yes, this simulating stitching or seams or piping is what I would like to learn.

Don't know how you could possibly simulate stitching in 1/24 scale, but for piping I use aluminum wire (found at craft stores in the jewelry making aisles). It comes in various thicknesses (diameters), is soft and easily flexible, and can be painted any color you like. I shape the needed piece to conform to where I want to apply it and attach it with very tiny amounts of CA... you have to be really careful when gluing. You might try a white glue (that dries clear) instead of CA... it wouldn't stain or discolor the surrounding leather.

This photo shows how I used wire to create the piping around the shift boot of this Jaguar. It's not on the seats, but it could be used on seats just as easily.

By the way... the "leather" seats here are nothing more than semigloss paint. Plain and simple, painless and realistic (At least I think it looks pretty much like "leather").

[Junkman]

Don't know how you could possibly simulate stitching in 1/24 scale, ...

See, Treehugger Dave obviously does.

[Scale-Master]

Yes, this simulating stitching or seams or piping is what I would like to learn.

Piping can easily be created with the vinyl tubing that comes in Tamiya 1/12 scale motorcycle and F1 kits (and yes in Super 7 kits too). I think Detail Master and other aftermarket companies also offer it. Soft wire inserted into the tubing can make it more manageable too. The wire can be found in the floral arrangement section at Michaels. Some people use just wire, but I prefer the softer look of the tubing.

You’ll have to mix paint to match or compliment the material/leather. I find it easier to paint after application.

Just cement it to the seams. A ¼ to a ½ inch at a time and let it dry. Straight runs (like across the top of a bench seat) can often be adhered in one shot.

I like the RC560 canopy adhesive for this. Sorry I have no photos to help illustrate what I am describing; hopefully my wording is clear enough.

As for stitching, I make them using custom made decals. Examples can be seen on my Blue Super 7, (steering wheel and seat belts) but again I have to apologize for not being able to post pictures here, but they are floating around cyber-world.

And I have no easy way to explain how it that process is done, plus it uses equipment not in the arsenal of most builders.

No, I did not invent the equipment. (Darn sarcasm font is not working…) But I am a professional decal artist, (Scale-Master Decals anyone, anyone…Bueller?) and that does provide me with a few perks.

Hey, one out of two questions answered isn’t too bad, and I offered a legitimate reason for not providing info. Was not difficult at all.

And you have every right to question my claim (statement of fact) of creating the art for many decals that come in major model company’s production kits…

[Scale-Master]

Looks like I am a slow typer, but I do multi-task… And in my defense, the site is running really slow on my end.

[Chas SCR]

I guess I will get into it after I have done a leather interior on my "Concept 36". After doing it one time (and only one time) was enuff for me as it was a true pain in the rear. I talk to a lot of great builders at the GSL, Mark Jones and Martin and also I may have talk to Mark Tyler (just do not remember sorry) I have seen there work in person and talk to them on how they did this and did that. For one if you think these guys would hold any thing back or lie about what they do is your loss.

I have found the only leather that is thin enuff to do some thing in 1/24th scale is at Jo Ann Faberic and its in swade leather. The hard leather was way to thick!

Like I said I did this one time and after talking to Mr Cummings and a few others at the GSL they show'ed me how to get the look with out doing it in leather.

Now for this Air Brush Chrome or Water Base Chrome! After GSL XXII where I seen first hand his Chrome car and every time I tryed to talk to Dave about it, it seem he was very secretive about this. ( I Like Dave do not get me wrong he and I have talk about a few things and help people on other stuff like the Lathes and Mills) But I do and would have to see this first hand as there is a place down in KY that has water base Chrome Platting.

They will also convert your air brush over to the same type of air gun that they sell. Look up Gold Touch Inc. it is called Cosmichrome Spray Chroming. The one thing I can say thank you to Dave is for making me go out and want to fine some thing better or a little less cheaper then sending out to Chrome Tech. Do not get me wrong I still use Bob and he is great on some thing and yes the stuff I found does not shine like that but its worth it if you are wanting to do your own and have a factory look Chrome.

Spend the $$$$ and go to Alsa and there is a little cheaper way of getting around that big price if you like to know I will tell you. But this is the only Chrome Pant that you can clear over with out dulling it.

[Karmodeler2]

"Hey! What do ya think the teacher will look like this year?"

"I don't feel tardy"

And is this too out of scale for 1/18?

Does this seat, in my 1/24 scale car, make my butt look to big?

Yes, I see some resemblance between the pics that Susan posted and the one I have posted. Almost the same scale.

David

[Jordan White]

I've been thinking, what about Band-Aids? They come in different sizes, shapes, and colors, and have a leather look to them. Granted the regular ones have holes in them, but they could be filled in somehow (or left open for a sporty look). The parts with the foam could act like cushions or help accentuate the seat. Of course, I haven't tried this and don't know how effective they would be (especially with extra glue). It just seems like a material that is thin enough for 1/24 & 1/25 scale, but still has a leather look. If someone were to try this, I guess Band-Aid brand would be the best.

Edited February 26, 2010 by YJIslander

[sjordan2]

Well, this certainly has been...entertaining.

You guys go ahead, I'll just take some popcorn over to the bleachers and watch.