Harry P. Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 I hope this isn't a dumb question, but it just popped into my mind. Back in the early days of the automobile, many cars came with polished brass fittings, radiator shells, headlights, etc. instead of chrome plating. Was the brass on these parts coated with any sort of protective clear from the factory, or did the poor owner have to polish all that brass every Saturday afternoon to keep it from tarnishing?
crazyjim Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 Hey Harry - maybe all that brass is why somebody invented Brasso.
Art Anderson Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 (edited) I hope this isn't a dumb question, but it just popped into my mind. Back in the early days of the automobile, many cars came with polished brass fittings, radiator shells, headlights, etc. instead of chrome plating. Was the brass on these parts coated with any sort of protective clear from the factory, or did the poor owner have to polish all that brass every Saturday afternoon to keep it from tarnishing? Harry, The concept of lacquering brass to maintain the shine never did find any usage outside of household decor items and of course, musical instruments (you know, cornets, trumpets, trombones, baritone's, bass's, Sousaphones, and of course saxophones). Certainly it wasn't at all used on automotive brass, mostly due to the exposure to the elements, and the heat generated by acetylene or kerosene flame inside headlights, cowl lights, and taillights back then--those suckers get HOT when lit for any length of time. In addition, as any brass musician knows, if the clear lacquer got scratched or chipped, the exposed raw brass tarnished quickly, and could never be polished to look at all like it should, the only solution being to have the instrument disassembled, the lacquer stripped, the brass repolished all over, then re-lacquered for that like-new appearance. I suspect that no car owner would have cared to have had that done. Another issue would have been the method of assembly of lights, even radiator shells. Brass doesn't take deeply drawn stamping without cracking, light bodies having to be either made up from shallow stampings and then soldered together, or their shapes (round headlights for example) being formed by the process of "spinning" or working the sheet brass to shape on a mandrel turning at high speed, being constantly annealed in order to prevent it's splitting during manufacturer. Then, there was the issue of the inside surfaces! Those old brass headlights, while many using glass parabolic mirrors behind the gas or kerosene flame, generally had their inside surfaces made either from German (Nickel) Silver, or on cheaper cars, silver-plated. That, and the need to solder those parts for assembly, would have made lacquering an after-the-fact proposition. All that said, there was a trend some years ago, among antique auto owners/restoreres, to lacquer the brass trim, but I believe that is now long out of favor there. 60 years ago, or so, I was surrounded by people my parent's age, even older, who constantly reminded me that polishing the brass on those early cars was a real chore--one best consigned to the kids in the family (once old enough to be trusted around that treasure of treasures) or the hired man on the farm, or the family's chauffeur). That is why, by about 1914-15, polished brass trim began to disappear, replaced first by nickel plating (which required polishing still, but not nearly so much nor as often) and radiator shells began to be painted (often over brass) the same being true of headlight, cowl lamps and taillight bodies, those having only the rims around the lens in either nickel or on some cars, polished brass. By 1917 or so, in the US, brightwork had all but disappeared on new cars, at least in the US. Nickel plating was considered by many, particularly with luxury cars (the 3 P's for example, Packard, Peerless and Pierce Arrow), nearly all components on the exterior being painted including the radiator shells) as being somehow "cheap". Nickel did return in the flashy days of the 20's, tolerated when new, loathed with age and the dulling that happens with nickel, until Oldsmobile pioneered chromium plating in 1927-28. At last a brightwork finish that remained so for a long time. Of course, Ford Motor Company introduced polished stainless steel (Ford called it "Rustless Steel) for 1930, and by the end of the 30's, most of the low priced (even a number of mid-priced as well)cars came out of Detroit with all but bumpers and diecast metal trim items in stainless steel. Art Edited April 1, 2010 by Art Anderson
Junkman Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 I hope this isn't a dumb question, but it just popped into my mind. Back in the early days of the automobile, many cars came with polished brass fittings, radiator shells, headlights, etc. instead of chrome plating. Was the brass on these parts coated with any sort of protective clear from the factory, or did the poor owner have to polish all that brass every Saturday afternoon to keep it from tarnishing? The 'poor' owner of a brass era car had his servants polish it on a Saturday afternoon, while he waited in the club until it was finished.
Harry P. Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 The 'poor' owner of a brass era car had his servants polish it on a Saturday afternoon, while he waited in the club until it was finished. Good point!
Art Anderson Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 To add to this thread a little bit: Maintaining the finish on a brass era car (for that matter, most any automobile up to 1924 or so) was a chore completely unto itself. From the beginning of the automobile age, painting a car was no different than painting a horse-drawn carriage--the first automobile bodies (such as they were) were built in the same manner as fine carriages--from wood. After the body shell was constructed, all moldings and other surface trims added, then carefully sanded, and any filler work done; the body shell was primed, with a sandable primer made largely from varnish and heavy pigments, with a lot of talcum powder added. This had to be set aside to dry for several days (weeks even, in cold or wet weather) until it hardened completely. The body shell would then be carefully sanded smooth. Once the primed body was ready, color coats were added, by hand, with very soft paintbrushes (camel's hair, or squirrel hair), the color being simply the most basic of enamels--varnish with finely ground pigment added. Incidently, there were "pearlescent" colors available, IF you had the money--fish scales mixed into clear varnish!. After perhaps 3 or 4 coats, the body shell would be placed in a clean, dry evironment for several days, often weeks, until this color coat dried "click hard". Once completely dry, the body shell would be rubbed down by hand, with pumice and oil, until the color coat was completely smooth, if satin-finish. This was laborious, labor-intensive, but it was the only way. Once smoothed out, the color coat was washed, to clean it of all pumice residue, and of course, to get rid of the oil, so that the clear coat would stick. The clear coat? Spar Varnish! Now, if you have ever used spar varnish, you know that it also takes many days to dry without the addition of any "driers". Finally, after the spar varnish was dry, the body would be taken out of storage, and the pumice and oil rubbing repeated, this time, to a high sheen. With the introduction of sheet metal as a "cladding" around 1904-05 or so, the painting technique remained the same, laborious work, long lead times. But being the "state of the art", this is pretty much the pattern followed by every automaker, world-wide until 1914. It is generally accepted that Ford Motor Company introduced the concept of "spraying" paint on car bodies. For them, it was a matter of necessity. Where most all carmakers produced only a few thousand (at best) cars per year, by 1914, Ford was looking at half a million (and they did pretty much achieve that), so something had to give. The story goes that Henry Ford observed that the hand tools, the wrenches, etc., that were being purchased for use in the factory had a black enamel finish on them, that would not flake or peel (no chrome-plated Snap-On tools back then!), but could only be scratched, or chipped off the steel. Intrigued, the story goes, Henry Ford inquired, and was told that the tools came from Stanley Tool Company. Henry Ford (according to Stanley Tool's history) tried to get the paint formula from Stanley, only to be refused. He then tried to buy out Stanley, but the owners refused a generous offer to sell (those hard-nosed Connecticut Yankees anyway!!!), but they would be willing to vend their black enamel to Ford, and the rest, as they say, is history. This enamel used the then new-tech "Japan Drier", a chemical which, when added to oil based paints, greatly speeded up the drying time. But how to apply the stuff? Stanley, of course, merely dipped their hand tools into it, then baked it dry. Now that would work for small parts, even fenders, splash aprons, hoods and running boards. But what about a body shell? Baking a body shell made up largely of wood, covered in sheet metal, the wood being coated with asphaltum (the same stuff that copper radiator cores used to be painted with) not only presented a shrinkage problem, but also at 400-degrees, a serious fire hazard as well! So, enter the first "spray painting" applications. Ford settled on a very primitive spray painting operation for the T--simply pumping the black japan enamel through large "garden hoses", and out through a simple hose nozzle, more "squirting" the stuff than finely atomizing it. The bodies could then be run through a long, lower temp baking oven, which had hundreds of heat lamps to heat the sheetmetal, thus force-drying the paint. But, what about maintaining the finish in service? Careful washing, by hand, flowing water from a hose over the body surfaces, to flood away dust and mud was part of the equation, followed by a careful scrubbing with soft natural bristle brushes, followed by a chamois drying. Polishes were available, but had to be used by someone well versed, as those hand-painted, hand rubbed varnish surfaces had to be treated with great care. Even at that, in a fairly short time, those early cars dulled out badly, in the case of early wooden bodies, the wood expanded and contracted with the seasons, even with changes in humidity. On steel or aluminum, the carriage era paintwork checked and peeled in just a couple of years, requiring a complete repaint. Brewster Body Company of Springfield MA, was legendary for their customer care--many of the buyers of luxury cars bearing Brewster bodies (mostly from the region New York City to Boston) often had two body shells for their cars--closed bodies for winter, open bodies for summer. At the change of seasons, their chauffeurs would take Milady's car back to Brewster, who would remove the winter body, and withdraw that customer's summer body and mount it on the chassis. While they had the customer's body shell in storage, they would completely refinish it, so that come the next season change, the remounted body would be in pristine condition. Brewster maintained a meticulous file for each customer, with chips of their favorite color (most Brewster Green paints, for example, were custom mixed to customer order, and were exclusive--the Vanderbilts would NOT be seen in a car the same exact color as the Whitneys, or the Astors, for example!). This all began changing in 1923, with the development of a sprayable, fast drying lacquer, Duco, from DuPont. By 1924, the principle owner (even savior) of GM was DuPont, so that is where modern spray painting of cars began, in 1924. But, the lowly owner of a black Model T Ford had no such luxury. As that black Japan Enamel eventually faded, dulled out beyond polishing, it was down to the hardware store or the paint store, buy a can of so-called 4hr enamel (the stuff dried to sticky in 4 hours, took a day or more to dry hard), a brush, and some thinner, went home, and got to work. Ford eventually went to a synthetic lacquer for the '28 Model A, called Pyroxylin, which was made from the same resin derived from wood, that they used to make artificial leather for seats, waterproof top material for open cars and the fabric roof inserts for closed bodies. Those early lacquers required lots of polishing, and a ton of handwork to wax and shine--all the way into the 50's, to get a Simoniz wax job meant something, it meant that you cared enough about your car to spend all day long, waxing, then polishing out by hand, to the point of serious fatigue (I know, as I got paid the princely sum of $5 bucks about every month to wash, wax and polish the cars that a couple of my aunts owned back then--Dad's cars? Well, he considered it just compensation for a comfortable home, clothing, and three square meals a day!) How times have changed, huh? Art
Jairus Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Wow, great read. I wish I wrote as well as Art does!
charlie8575 Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Question, Art. You stated something about artificial leathers? Are these an early vinyl of some type, or another material? To confirm, I remember my grandmother (who would be 104 now if she were still with us,) telling me stories about Pa's (my great-grandfather) first of about six or seven Model Ts, before he moved up to a Studebaker. Gram used to tell me about the first couple he had (he traded every year) that were brass-trimmed, and the entire day it would take to not only wash, but polish the car. I remember her telling me that my Uncle Howard and Uncle Roy usually got the brass-polishing duties and she had to buff it. It was indeed a production, even on a small car like a T. Charlie Larkin
Art Anderson Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Question, Art. You stated something about artificial leathers? Are these an early vinyl of some type, or another material? To confirm, I remember my grandmother (who would be 104 now if she were still with us,) telling me stories about Pa's (my great-grandfather) first of about six or seven Model Ts, before he moved up to a Studebaker. Gram used to tell me about the first couple he had (he traded every year) that were brass-trimmed, and the entire day it would take to not only wash, but polish the car. I remember her telling me that my Uncle Howard and Uncle Roy usually got the brass-polishing duties and she had to buff it. It was indeed a production, even on a small car like a T. Charlie Larkin At first, leather was the material of choice for automobile upholstery (particularly in open cars), even folding tops on buggies and those early roadsters and touring cars. Pyroxylin, a nitro-cellulose compound, dating from before our Civil War, could be dissolved in various alcohols and was used as the "resin" base for nitrocellulose lacquer. In household use, pyroxylin was the component of common Collodion, sometimes referred to as "new skin", which could be applied (with excruciating pain BTW) to cuts, scrapes, abrasions even minor burns, because it stuck tightly, stretched and gave with movement, the flexing of the underlying skin. Ford and several others started using heavy cotton fabric, coated with the stuff to make a water-resistant fabric that could be patterned to look just like leather, and at a fraction of the cost of real leather. But, it didn't wear nearly as long as genuine tanned cowhide. Ford and the other carmakers went on to use this pyroxylin impregnated cloth for the fabric coverings of the roofs of closed car bodies (coupes, sedans and the like) until all steel "turret top" body construction took over in the middle 1930's. Ford even called the stuff "Art Leather" which sort of disguised the fact that it was an artificial substitute for the real thing. Ford also advertised their use of "fine pyrolylin lacquer" to counter Chevrolet's bragging about using DuPont Duco, even though chemically, they were both the same stuff, Ford's paints coming from Ditzler (now PPG-Ditzler). Vinyl, on the other hand, while discovered accidtently in a laboratory in the 1890's, found no use until the late 1920's, when it began taking over, for example, in the record industry--replacing the pyrolylin lacquer coatings used up to that time for making early 78rpm records. One of the first uses of PVC in cars was as seals for hydraulic shock absorbers and even hydraulic brake systems in the 1930's, expanding into homes as shower curtains about the same time frame. It didn't become popular in cars until the early 1950's however, when first Kaiser-Frazer and then the Big Three found it to be useful in creating those wildly popular colorful interiors that replaced the old mousey-gray and taupe fabric seats. Vinyl also played a role in WW-II, as a component of the earliest synthetic rubber tires. Art
Junkman Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Then there was 'Everflex' in England. Weymann and Van den Plas used it for entire bodies, see the Blower Bentleys as an example. It was actually invented in - you guessed it - Germany. They called it Preßstoff (press-fabric). It is actually made of specially layered and treated paper pulp (cellulose) and artificial resol, the latter being not dissimilar to enamel paint. So yes, the Blower Bentleys were in essence covered with paper.
Art Anderson Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Then there was 'Everflex' in England. Weymann and Van den Plas used it for entire bodies, see the Blower Bentleys as an example. It was actually invented in - you guessed it - Germany. They called it Preßstoff (press-fabric). It is actually made of specially layered and treated paper pulp (cellulose) and artificial resol, the latter being not dissimilar to enamel paint. So yes, the Blower Bentleys were in essence covered with paper. Weymann bodies (and those built by both imitators and licensees of Weymann) were built up of lightweight wooden pieces, joined by means of single pin metal hinges rather than by the normal method of mortise & tenon (the way fine furniture and automobile coachwork (back in the day) is joined), to cut out the squeaks resulting from the flexing of body and chassis. I'll let coachbuilt.com describe the covering as they do it quite well: <<Large open areas were covered with chicken wire and the assembled framework was then covered in muslin, followed by a thin layer of cotton batting and finally a pigmented synthetic leather - usually a pyroxylin-coated fabric such as DuPont’s Zapon in much in the same way as the roofs of conventional bodies were covered at the time. Other brands of synthetic leather at the time were: Fabrikoid (DuPont), Drednaut (Chase), Elascofab, Meritas (Standard Textile), Rexine, and Tole Souple - The final step was to affix decorative aluminum moldings to the beltline and to cover any exposed joints in the fabric. The completed body was then mounted to the chassis with rubber insulators.>> For the complete story of Weymann and Weymann style body construction, read all about it here: http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/w/weymann/weymann.htm (note that while the cars discussed in this article are American Classics, such as Stutz and Duesenberg, the famed LeMans Bentleys had bodies that were constructed in essentially the same manner.) Art
Junkman Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 (edited) Weymann bodies (and those built by both imitators and licensees of Weymann) were built up of lightweight wooden pieces, joined by means of single pin metal hinges rather than by the normal method of mortise & tenon (the way fine furniture and automobile coachwork (back in the day) is joined), to cut out the squeaks resulting from the flexing of body and chassis. I'll let coachbuilt.com describe the covering as they do it quite well: <<Large open areas were covered with chicken wire and the assembled framework was then covered in muslin, followed by a thin layer of cotton batting and finally a pigmented synthetic leather - usually a pyroxylin-coated fabric such as DuPont’s Zapon in much in the same way as the roofs of conventional bodies were covered at the time. Other brands of synthetic leather at the time were: Fabrikoid (DuPont), Drednaut (Chase), Elascofab, Meritas (Standard Textile), Rexine, and Tole Souple - The final step was to affix decorative aluminum moldings to the beltline and to cover any exposed joints in the fabric. The completed body was then mounted to the chassis with rubber insulators.>> For the complete story of Weymann and Weymann style body construction, read all about it here: http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/w/weymann/weymann.htm (note that while the cars discussed in this article are American Classics, such as Stutz and Duesenberg, the famed LeMans Bentleys had bodies that were constructed in essentially the same manner.) Art So it's all in essence Preßstoff? Edited April 4, 2010 by Junkman
Art Anderson Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 (edited) So it's all in essence Preßstoff? If you mean that Weymann and other high end coachbuilders used essentially pressed paper, no. Note that cotton batting (fluffy white cotton fiber between two layers of light cotton muslin--not unlike the cotton mattress pads sold in the bedding departments of large stores in the US--and I assume similar is used in the UK?), and multiple layers of cotton muslin (common woven cotton fabric), with the outer layer having been treated with lacquer after application, often (in the case of Weymann-American Body Company of Indianapolis IN) having been sprayed with a thicker lacquer (not thinned as much as say, for a high gloss finish on metal surfaces) which gave a "pebble-grain" effect (since thicker consistency lacquers don't have the time to "flow out" the individual tiny droplets blending smoothly together). This gave a slightly dull "faux leather" surface texture. There is at least one Stutz DV-32 with a Weymann American fabric body, I last saw it in the Gilmore Museum (the famed "Red Barns" at Hickory Corners MI, just northwest of Kalamzoo MI. This body is an original Weymann wood structure, but was completely restored using Weymann's patented techniques. It's my understanding that the legendary 3- and 4.5-liter racing Bentleys (as represented by the excellent Heller kit BTW) and Wolf Barnato's unique Bentley fastback coupe were bodied in this same manner. The now-completely-restored Dr. Samuel Mudd (grandson of the Dr Mudd who treated John Wilkes Booth after Lincoln's assination) 1935 Duesenberg SJN "fastback coupe", body styled by J. Herbert Newport, coachwork by Califormia's Bohmann & Schwartz, has a steel body, padded and then covered in actual leather, even the steel hood panels having been covered thus. This car has the looks, but not the rather fragile nature of a Weymann fabric body though. As for pressed paper body shells, the only ones I have ever heard of, are those made in the former East Germany by Trabant--that pressed paper was impregnated with resin, then baked hard, before painting and final assembly. Art Edited April 7, 2010 by Art Anderson
Art Anderson Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Junkman..... I just remembered that I had this webpage bookmarked. It shows, in drawings (factory I think) along with text, exactly how the Weymann fabric bodies were constructed and finished. The drawings and images are of their US Licensee, Weymann-American Body Company, of Indianapolis Indiana. W-A made a number of low-production bodies for Stutz, as well as 3 or 4 for Duesenberg, both companies being located in Indianapolis (the old Stutz factory building still stands on the north side of downtown Indianapolis, now the Stutz Center, as a building full of office condominiums, WITH the original Stutz showroom completely restored, with always 3-4 Stutz's on display!) http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/w/weymann/weymann.htm Art
jas1957 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Art, Thanks for the history, VERY interesting stuff !! John
Junkman Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 Yeah, it's great. So did Vanden Plas use a similar system on the Blower Bentleys? Ans what about Skiff Labourdette?
Art Anderson Posted April 11, 2010 Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) Yeah, it's great. So did Vanden Plas use a similar system on the Blower Bentleys? Ans what about Skiff Labourdette? Of that, I have no idea--although I am pretty sure the fabric technology was similar, if not the same. Weymann's wood structure and method of joining was, I believe, patented by them, then licensed out--so it is possible that Vanden Plas might have used the Weymann system under license. Of course, with the Bentley ("....the fastest motor lorries in the World"--Ettore Bugatti) one of their characteristics was an extremely stiff frame, and with that narrow touring car body, I doubt that what little chassis flexing there might have been, they could have gone with a fairly rigid wood framing for the bodywork. Art Edited April 11, 2010 by Art Anderson
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