I wonder if we do the right thing in our praise...

[philo426]

AS far as disputing techniques that is a bit odd!We all have techniques that work well for us but may not be right for everyone.Always experiment on a test mule first to see if the new technique will work out for you.Always be open to new ideas!

[Karmodeler2]

And @ Karmodeler2: you are absolutely right. I should have used the word 'persistence' in my 'lack of' list and spoken for myself.

Hey Christian,

A few of my friends say that I'm am insane for painting a car 23 times, I just call it "persistent". It keeps the guys with the white lab coats at bay!!!!

I know there is a fine line between insanity and what we do. I enjoy bashing through that line frequently!

David

[Guest snapper]

I wholeheartedly agree that constructive criticism can help people improve as builders. I also agree that fawning praise probably does a disservice.

As long they're having fun with their hobby and are content with their results, I say more power to 'em.

I agree with these comments. I personally look forward to constructive comments from others so that I can learn more, but a positive comment can go a long way with a person's confidence. I think it can be frustrating for someone to post progress and builds and in return receive little or no comments/feedback.

[sjordan2]

As a laboratory study on this subject, may I draw your attention to the following current thread:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33542

[Jeff Sauber]

As a laboratory study on this subject, may I draw your attention to the following current thread:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33542

Yup, that's a classic case of what this thread is all about....

See! That's what happens when advice/critiquing is given!!......KABOOM!!..

[Danno]

Corvox and Snapper:

You guys have precisely the kind of attitudes that will take you to the top of the hobby! You will not only encourage others to share their knowledge, experience, and expertise with you, but your selfless openness will result in so much more enthusiastic acceptance and interaction with others. You're on the right track; others could learn from you!

If everyone approached this hobby as you do, there would be no flame wars at all. Bravo to you both!

[Danno]

As a laboratory study on this subject, may I draw your attention to the following current thread:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33542

Yeppers! Perfect example. The only thing that thread does not have ... yet ... is cacophonies of vapid cheerleader-buddies telling one guy his models look great and excoriating the other guy for being honest.

The TS might be a great guy with boatloads of un-developed talent, but he's so busy cranking on the commentator that he won't have time to learn anything and the fact that he seems to be ignoring the issues in order to crank on the commentator suggest he has no interest in learning anything beyond his box. Rating: Two fears up.

[Junkman]

Hey Christian,

A few of my friends say that I'm am insane for painting a car 23 times, I just call it "persistent". It keeps the guys with the white lab coats at bay!!!!

I know there is a fine line between insanity and what we do. I enjoy bashing through that line frequently!

David

Totally off-topic now. I can totally relate to your 23 painting attempts on one model. I must have built something in the neighborhood of thousand models so far. I have maybe 20 built models atm, because I constantly give them away to people drooling over them. I cannot understand these people, because my models never turn out nearways good enough for me to consider putting them on display. Many of the recepients of my models are people whose own building skills I admire tremendously. Some of my favourite kits, I have built many, many times, then gave away each one because I wasn't satisfied with it and started all over. How is this for persistent insanity?

[Junkman]

Yeppers! Perfect example. The only thing that thread does not have ... yet ... is cacophonies of vapid cheerleader-buddies telling one guy his models look great and excoriating the other guy for being honest.

The TS might be a great guy with boatloads of un-developed talent, but he's so busy cranking on the commentator that he won't have time to learn anything and the fact that he seems to be ignoring the issues in order to crank on the commentator suggest he has no interest in learning anything beyond his box. Rating: Two fears up.

BTT.

I haven't said a word about the TS. I said something about his models and the quality of his photographs. And the telling that his models look great are exactly what triggered my comment in the first place.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Junkman

[krow]

I lurk here frequently, it works for me. I have got a lot of good information from many of you on technique and certainly have been inspired. The only fault I see in the response that Christian gave to the newbie poster was that it was an itemized list of faults rendered to someone who really wasn't looking for such. It was quite the list of faults, and even though justified (I wouldn't have posted the pics myself) I cannot imagine anyone on the receiving end of a list like this taking it well, even with the best of intent on the part of the sender, I don't know if the poster was a kid in his teens, a newbie coming back to the hobby after many years or someone with handicaps that may have made his photography or his work appear the way it did. If you see something like this would it hurt to say "Fantastic! You might want to check out some of our in-progress pages, they have a lot of great information."? If one is comfortable enough in their abilities to ask for critique fire away, but know this: This is an old man's hobby. We can blame it on video games or short attention spans or I-Phones, but our choices in the hobby are being hobbled by a shrinking demographic. If we turn kids and newbies off to what we are doing the hobby will be dead when we are, if not well before.

I now return you to your board already in progress...

Edited July 27, 2010 by krow

[Jeff Sauber]

BTT.

I haven't said a word about the TS. I said something about his models and the quality of his photographs. And the telling that his models look great are exactly what triggered my comment in the first place.

Yeah, but you gave him both barrels at once...

Your overall assessment of the work wasn't that bad, but the delivery of critique was very heavy with the Hot-chilli powder....Ouch!..

[Eric Stone]

Yeah, but you gave him both barrels at once...

Your overall assessment of the work wasn't that bad, but the delivery of critique was very heavy with the Hot-chilli powder....Ouch!..

Yup. Came across as just a wee bit harsh.

[Terry Sumner]

As a laboratory study on this subject, may I draw your attention to the following current thread:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33542

Well I guess I have to admit that it was the above quoted thread and one other that got me to the point I felt I needed to bring the subject up. The other was this one....

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33535

While this Camaro was really well done in most aspects, I was left wondering to myself how it picked up an award with the paint that it has on it. No disrespect meant, but the photos clearly show a lot of orange peel in the paint. The photo of the roof and the next one showing the rear of the model showed this orange peel quite vividly. But it's not the model itself that caused me to write, but rather it was the responses that praised the paint. Now I don't wish to pick on the builder at all and once again I hesitate to mention this thread. However it was one of the two that finally caused me to start this thread because I wondered if we did a disservice to the builder by heaping praise for the paint when it was maybe not deservedly so? I mean, the poor guy had to feel that his paint was excellent because of all the "great paint" comments. That model was beautiful in every aspect but the paint surface, so why would we lie to the fellow and give the paint such high praise. Maybe the commenters might have praised evertyhing about the model but mentioned that the paint probably could have been improved by colorsanding and buffing it out?

I don't know, maybe I'm all wrong and I shouldn't even mention this Camaro. I apologise to the builder in advance but please don't take this badly. I've certainly been on the receiving side of some pointed crticism a number of times, but I knew the guys who were criticising my work and had asked them to critique my work. I realize you did not ask for this and for my unsolicited comments I'm sorry. I only mentioned it here so that others would be able to see what was on my mind when I started the thread.

[Jeff Sauber]

Agreed. The key is tactfulness. One can be tactfully & constructively critical without being "PC", (a term I now find so dated & irritating). Just going down the line & dumping all over the models didn't show restraint nor tact, especially with this person being a relatively new poster, so that you didn't have a "take" on how he might react to the criticism that you would have had from having read a lot more posts by him.

There's a time for bluntness & a time for tactfulness. Most times here it's better to err on the side of tact than of blunt & without being "PC".

Well said..

The evaluations of what needed improving was fairly accurate, but the way he phrased things was a bit too heavy handed... [Although I don't think it was intentional though.]

Things could have been handled a bit better, that's for sure.

Hopefully there won't be any lasting ill feelings left with the offended builder.

Edited July 27, 2010 by J. Sauber

[Eric Stone]

While this Camaro was really well done in most aspects, I was left wondering to myself how it picked up an award with the paint that it has on it. ... all the "great paint" comments.

I only counted two "great paint" comments. The others talked about the colors, but not necessarily the finish. I wonder if all of the paint related comments were meant to describe the colors, and not necessarily the finish itself. It is a good looking car, with some orange peel... like you'd find on one of my builds.

[Junkman]

When I look at the Camaro thread, I have the impression that all the photos, apart from the one where it is shown with the award, were made before it was polished, and the latter after. So in the end, it appears to have a superb finish of what is a very dangerous two tone combination. I would not even attempt it. My kudos to the man who dares and that alone is reason for my thumb pointing cloudwards.

[brett]

I agree with these comments. I personally look forward to constructive comments from others so that I can learn more, but a positive comment can go a long way with a person's confidence. I think it can be frustrating for someone to post progress and builds and in return receive little or no comments/feedback.

well I meant to include Kens post here as well but I totally agree with both. Its a hard line knowing where totread when offering critisim but if done as ,Do to other what you would have done to you, approach is taken maybe it would be better received. Peronally I would rather have that sort of critique than nothing at all since as my sig says, how can I get any better if no one tells mewhat I'm doing wrong.

[Dragline]

Christian, that was very harsh.

I have been known to have an elephants skin and your tirade back there would have made even me pause. I normally don't give a flip about what others think. I post what i want and all and sundry are welcomed to pick it apart. I recall one time I did get worked up at Harry for my funny car post but that's been the extent of it.

You sir, were harsh. truthful to be sure. But tactful, certainly not.

But if it's any consolation, I did get a few gigles. It was like watching a car wreck in slo mo.

Bob

[chris coller]

I guess my feeling on the subject matter is those who post and quote on someone's build and don't post anything they have built seems kinda pointless. If you are one of the people who remark about others work and don't post up your own work for "judgement" is a little unfair. While I agree this site has some of the best builders around things tend to get a little wacky from time to time. But when you have this many creative personalities in one place things will get wacky. It is a hobby and only a select few get paid to do this. I wish I got paid more for some of the things I do. But oh well. Have fun and take things with a grain of salt.

[Modelmartin]

Can we all not use the phrase "I build for myself" anymore? It is pretty obvious we all do build for ourselves. Who else would we be building for?

Pet peeve, which I had to put out there. Carry on.

[Harold]

I've heard of people that "eat, breathe, and sleep" their hobbies, but you're taking that first part a bit too far. Styrene is not food, Mark. What's it doing on your plate? Didn't your mother tell you not to play with your food???

All that clutter. Mark, did you steal my workbench?

[charlie8575]

Can we all not use the phrase "I build for myself" anymore? It is pretty obvious we all do build for ourselves. Who else would we be building for?

Pet peeve, which I had to put out there. Carry on.

I think this is a very important, valid point that we all seem to forget from time to time.

Charlie Larkin

[Harry P.]

Since we're eliminating useless phrases from our vocabularies...

can we put an end to "at the end of the day?"

Pleeeeeeez???

[Harry P.]

That depends Harry. At the end of the day, if we do, will that improve your life any? :blink:

I'm reporting you to the mods...

[Harry P.]

At the end of the day, I build for myself.

Oh yeah? Well, "I could care less"... :lol: