Scratchbuilding vs. Kitbashing

[Romell R]

How could it be any different? If you made the part, it is scratch-built. If a model company or resin caster made it and you used it / modified it to fit your model it would be kit bashing.

This is correct up to the point of using resin or photoetched parts which wouldnt be "kitbashing" or Scratch building" it would actually be "out sourcing" which now turns your model into a "multi-media" build which has become more and more prominent with the availability of parts via the internet and LHS. I myself am a Multi-media builder as I do a bit of all of it.

multi media build

"Scratch built" exhaust from headers back, "outsourced" motor (Ross Gibson) "Kit bashed" frame and parts of chassis. suspension "scratch built", seats and steering wheel "outsourced" and lots of other goodies.

Lets not kid ourselves here the only true scratch builder is Jehovah God The Almighty, the rest of us are using materials made by someone eles

Edited August 4, 2010 by Aftashox

[Darin Bastedo]

I think all of us know that taking raw material and turning it into a model part is scratchbuilding. I thing we also all know that taking a valve cover from one kit and using it on another is Kit Bashing. where the line blurs is when you use some thing from another kit for it's shape alone but not in the same way it was intended.

We have all accepted that using already formed tube stock and specialised shapes from a company like evergreen as scratch-building. Then why wouldn't say, using a small piece of an inner fender of a 69 camaro engine compartment to complete an otherwise scratch built 40 for roof be scratch-building?

in my scratch building I use ping pong balls, Platic easter eggs, and bits and pieces of just about anything that has the shape I need whether its from a blister pack, or a peice of an old remote. do I scratch build or not?

My definition is thus:

If you created something that didn't exist before out of something your are scratchbuilding

if you are swaping parts whether its a roof transplant or an engine, and you are using the parts for their original purpose you are kit bashing.

My conclusion is that in the end it doesn't really matter. in it's most extreme examples the both take skill.

[Darin Bastedo]

my real beef is with those who think of scratch building as some sort of morally superior form of modeling.

I have to agree. I do a lot of scratchbuilding on my builds, but many times it's because it is far easier than making the kit part acceptable.

On this build I scratch-built the side pipe covers. it took me one evening and was far easieier than trying to make the kit pieces look this good. The reason there is so much clout from being a scratch builder is that not many modelers have practiced it enough to get good at it. but it is no more difficult than learning to build clean, or doing a glass smooth paint job. they are all skills that need to be practiced to be mastered.

[Harry P.]

Based on what you guys have said, I think I'd change my original definition of scratchbuilding to include using/modifying existing kit pieces or other existing items to create something new, something different than the original piece was meant to be.

For example, cutting out a section of a clear blister pack to create a windshield would be scratchbuilding.

Taking the bowl of a plastic spoon and modifying it to turn it into a hood scoop would be scratchbuilding.

Cutting out circular pieces from the bottom of a pop cans to create aluminum wheel disks would be scratchbuilding.

So scratchbuilding can include more than just creating parts from raw materials.

[Chuck Most]

And Mr. Robinson has added another element... bringing in a non kit, non-scratchbuilt component (resin, PE, or what have you).

The plot thickens!!!!

[Romell R]

Then there's the term "scratch-bashed"...

This means that a "pre-existing" part has been PARTIALLY scratch built in order for the item to fit a particular application...Alot of folks tend to "stretch the facts" when it comes to this term and practice.

This would also be "Modified" scratch-bashed is not a term used often. sorry Jeff you know youre still my bro LOL!

[Jeff Sauber]

This would also be "Modified" scratch-bashed is not a term used often. sorry Jeff you know youre still my bro LOL!

The term "scratch-bashed" works fine for me...I've used that term many times in the past.

It simply implies the mixing and joining of an existing piece with that of another piece that has been fabbed from scratch.

Is it a correct term to use? I dunno. Who cares. It works for me. I tend to model way outside the box, so I'm always coming with new and off beat ideas as well as terminology.

[Romell R]

The term "scratch-bashed" works fine for me...I've used that term many times in the past.

It simply implies the mixing and joining of an existing piece with that of another piece that has been fabbed from scratch.

Is it a correct term to use? I dunno. Who cares. It works for me. I tend to model way outside the box, so I'm always coming with new and off beat ideas as well as terminology.

I respect you Bro really I do didnt mean any harm or disrespect.

[Chuck Most]

Scratch-bashed, or scratchbashing, works for me,though I seldom use the term myself. Combining those two words just seems a little weird. Then again "kitbashing" has always conjured up weird mental pictures for me too, every time I hear it, I picture some modeler setting a sweet '49 Merc model onto a table, then smashing it flat with his fist. And why would you build something from 'scratch'? Wouldn't it be easier to use, I dunno... plastic, or something?

[Jeff Sauber]

I respect you Bro really I do didnt mean any harm or disrespect.

Whattaya mean?.. I wasn't offended....

I guess I forgot to use enough emoticons...

We're cool, we're cool....I hope..

[Jeff Sauber]

Scratch-bashed, or scratchbashing, works for me,though I seldom use the term myself. Combining those two words just seems a little weird. Then again "kitbashing" has always conjured up weird mental pictures for me too, every time I hear it, I picture some modeler setting a sweet '49 Merc model onto a table, then smashing it flat with his fist. And why would you build something from 'scratch'? Wouldn't it be easier to use, I dunno... plastic, or something?

Whenever I hear or see the term "kitbashed" I always picture some poor fella taking a baseball bat or a hammer and smashing the model bacause things go to together too well.

"This model sucks!!.... I'm going to go and "kitbash" this thing with a good sized hammer, and a few foot-stomps!!"...

Edited August 4, 2010 by J. Sauber

[Guest Johnny]

Whenever I hear or see the term "kitbashed" I always picture some poor fella taking a baseball bat or a hammer and smashing the model bacause things go to together too well.

"This model sucks!!.... I'm going to go and "kitbash" this thing with a good sized hammer, and a few foot-stomps!!"...

J I have had some new kits in the past I wanted to "kit bash" with a himmer after opening them!

and J you don't just build way outside the box you build WAYoutside the box!!!

[Chuck Most]

Whenever I hear or see the term "kitbashed" I always picture some poor fella taking a baseball bat or a hammer and smashing the model bacause things go to together too well.

"This model sucks!!.... I'm going to go and "kitbash" this thing with a good sized hammer, and a few foot-stomps!!"...

Never resorted to a bat or hammer... but I have subjected at least one fiddly model to the 'floor shock' test! It survived, so after that, I HAD to finish it. Now, that headache inducing lump of styrene is one of my favorites...

[Jeff Sauber]

J I have had some new kits in the past I wanted to "kit bash" with a himmer after opening them!

and J you don't just build way outside the box you build WAYoutside the box!!!

[Jeff Sauber]

Never resorted to a bat or hammer... but I have subjected at least one fiddly model to the 'floor shock' test! It survived, so after that, I HAD to finish it. Now, that headache inducing lump of styrene is one of my favorites...

I had one of mine hit the floor a few years ago..It was repairable, but alot of the sub-assemblies seperated, and had to be re-attached. I was surpirsed there wasn't more damage than there was. I cringed when I heard it contact the floor.

[Modelmartin]

my real beef is with those who think of scratch building as some sort of morally superior form of modeling.

I don't know how morals fits in this discussion. I would say scratch building exhibits a superior skillset. That, I would think, is obvious. I have scratch built complete and partial models. I also build OOB once in a while, too. A scratch builder is more skilled than a model builder who does not scratch build. Scratch building is a goal for many and a worthy one.

One day when I was much younger, I was thinking about what a hot shot model builder I was and it occured to me that someone else made up all of those parts I was putting together. If I was such a hot shot, why don't I make the parts, too!

Edited August 4, 2010 by Modelmartin

[Jeff Sauber]

I don't know how morals fits in this discussion. I would say scratch building exhibits a superior skillset. That, I would think, is obvious. I have scratch built complete and partial models. I also build OOB once in a while, too. A scratch builder is more skilled than a model builder who does not scratch build. Scratch building is a goal for many and a worthy one.

One day when I was much younger, I was thinking about what a hot shot model builder I was and it occured to me that someone else made up all of those parts I was putting together. If I was such a hot shot, why don't I make the parts, too!

Good post, and I agree...

Scratch building generally takes more skill...

Take a look at Gerald Wingrove's stuff for instance.....How many guys do you see building like that?....That's right...Not many at all. So yeah, that type of scratch building is a superior form of modeling.

Edited August 4, 2010 by J. Sauber

[jw78z28]

I will always list , at shows, what was scratch built, and what was robbed from other kits and what parts where aftermarket. if i can remember

But i think we all need to remember model building is about having fun and build what ever makes you happy

that's just my thought.

[Darin Bastedo]

I don't know how morals fits in this discussion. I would say scratch building exhibits a superior skillset. That, I would think, is obvious. I have scratch built complete and partial models. I also build OOB once in a while, too. A scratch builder is more skilled than a model builder who does not scratch build. Scratch building is a goal for many and a worthy one.

One day when I was much younger, I was thinking about what a hot shot model builder I was and it occured to me that someone else made up all of those parts I was putting together. If I was such a hot shot, why don't I make the parts, too!

I don't think a scratchbuilder is more skilled, he is simply better at that than possibly other things. I'm pretty good at scratch building but only so so at paint so in the average I feel I'm about equal with someone who is an awesome painter but couldn't scratch build a box.

[Danno]

I don't think a scratchbuilder is more skilled, he is simply better at that than possibly other things. I'm pretty good at scratch building but only so so at paint so in the average I feel I'm about equal with someone who is an awesome painter but couldn't scratch build a box.

Good observation. And that is what makes the hobby so very interesting. Different strokes for different folks, and a great variety of skills and talents in a great variety of disciplines.

[Romell R]

I don't know how morals fits in this discussion. I would say scratch building exhibits a superior skillset. That, I would think, is obvious. I have scratch built complete and partial models. I also build OOB once in a while, too. A scratch builder is more skilled than a model builder who does not scratch build. Scratch building is a goal for many and a worthy one.

One day when I was much younger, I was thinking about what a hot shot model builder I was and it occured to me that someone else made up all of those parts I was putting together. If I was such a hot shot, why don't I make the parts, too!

I have a half brother. And he and I used to get model vans back in the late 70's early 80's. Custom vans were the in thing back then My father even had a 6 wheel custom chevy. Anyway my brother and I used to compete to see who could make the best custom van (we were between 8-10 at the time) I would always want to do more than just the box stock kit I would get thick construction paper and make the cabnets and furiture for the van.

I say that to state my scratch building started way back as a young boy. The need to do what was not already done. And I have only taken what I have been doing all my life and improved on it. To say scratch building is a superior skill is a bit grandiose, but i will say that it is a skill, and as with all skills it takes time to master it. Here I am some thirty plus years later and I am just getting into my grove so to speak and feeling really comfortable with my "gift". and weather we are scratch building or kit bashing we must realize that we (modlers) are a special people cause not anyone pick up a box of plastic and turn it into a true work of art. Romell

[Harry P.]

There are levels of scratchbuilding.

Pretty much any one of us can take a few pieces of sheet styrene and make a scratchbuilt hood scoop. Pretty much any one of us can scratchbuild a roll cage out of aluminum or plastic rod.

But not many of us (maybe none of us here?) can take a few sheets of brass, some aluminum and brass wire, rod and tube, a few chunks of aluminum or brass, and various other raw materials and create a complete model car from those raw materials. That level of scratchbuilding is definitely above and beyond simple kit assembly, or even kitbashing. That level of scratchbuilding definitely requires a skill level above that needed to merely assemble a collection of individual kit parts, so yes, true scratchbuilding is a step above model kit assembly.

[Foxer]

"This model sucks!!.... I'm going to go and "kitbash" this thing with a good sized hammer, and a few foot-stomps!!"...

That's NOT what kitbashed means??????

[Darin Bastedo]

There are levels of scratchbuilding.

Pretty much any one of us can take a few pieces of sheet styrene and make a scratchbuilt hood scoop. Pretty much any one of us can scratchbuild a roll cage out of aluminum or plastic rod.

But not many of us (maybe none of us here?) can take a few sheets of brass, some aluminum and brass wire, rod and tube, a few chunks of aluminum or brass, and various other raw materials and create a complete model car from those raw materials. That level of scratchbuilding is definitely above and beyond simple kit assembly, or even kitbashing. That level of scratchbuilding definitely requires a skill level above that needed to merely assemble a collection of individual kit parts, so yes, true scratchbuilding is a step above model kit assembly.

Is that truly a greater skill or just a different set of skills? I've had very talented builders say they couldn't do what I do, yet they consistently build better models than I. In my estimation there isn't greater skills required simply different ones. when you speak of scratchbuilding an entire model the skill most lack is design. Desin has little to do with actual building skill, but it allows you to build the parts so they all fit in relation to each other. If the design is good, and the tools are available then all you need is the skill sets needed to form each part. these skills aren't magic it is a learnable skill. what seperates most model builders fronm the "top tier" builders is that ability to coceptualise the finished product, and determine what needs to be done and in what order to bring it to fruition.

once you achive that it is only a matter of accurately making the parts and putting them together. the better you are at design the easier the scratchbuilding will be.

[Scale-Master]

Many excellent points have been made in this discussion. Thanks for starting it Harry. I have a little to add too...

It has been my observation that many who dismiss quality scratch-building as using the same skill set as assembling a model are unable to execute well rendered scratch-built parts themselves. Anyone can scratch-build, just as anyone can build a kit, but we have all seen a wide variance between the levels of quality different modelers build at whether it be out of the box or something more substantial.

Another point was made that if a part was used for a purpose other than its intended use, it can be called a scratch-built part. I disagree in many cases. For example, the Revell 1960 Corvette has a separate windshield wiper motor. But if you turn it on its side, paint it yellow and tan, it becomes a rather convincing Accel Super Coil. No changing of the shape, just using it in a different part of the engine compartment with different paint. I realize that is a specific situation, but it does illustrate another angle of that view.

The idea of using a pen cap as an exhaust tip has been around for decades, but is that simple addition and change of use for a piece enough to earn the term scratch-built? I don't think so.

But I will accept there are cases when using a part for different than intended use and modifying it may bring it into the realm of being scratch-built.

The IPMS rules are about the best around (when they are followed by the judges, which unfortunately they too often are not). Just because they say a scratch-built entry can have kit sourced parts, does not by default make said model automatically truly scratch-built. But imagine finding enough entries of only truly 100% scratch-built models? The rules allow enough latitude to have mostly scratch-built models compete with fully scratch-built models.

The "Out-Of-The-Box except" phrase gets me too. It is or it isn't, look at the instructions for that answer. But Factory Stock has nothing to do with OOB, unless you are entering a model of a Factory Stock subject in an OOB category.

And I have added "seams" and other manufacturing defects to a few of my scratch-built parts. Not to mess with anyone, but to replicate the real life part. Take a look at a transmission housing casting for example.