Can anyone explain.........

[Pete J.]

I was just viewing Harry's famous weekly car quiz and I had a Bill Engval random thought. Can any one explain why the French, who are world famous for their high sense of fashion, good taste, and exquisite art have, with the exception of Ettore Bugatti, failed to create a truly ironically beautiful automobile. The French garage is full of quirky, weird, and just plain hideous automobiles but none other than the classic Bugatti's, take the breath away. The Italians do it on what seems to be a weekly basis. The Japanese have their share. Every American company has at least one classic they can point to. Even the Germans can compete in this arena. What the heck is wrong with the French and their automobile designers?

[Mike Kucaba]

I was just viewing Harry's famous weekly car quiz and I had a Bill Engval random thought. Can any one explain why the French, who are world famous for their high sense of fashion, good taste, and exquisite art have, with the exception of Ettore Bugatti, failed to create a truly ironically beautiful automobile. The French garage is full of quirky, weird, and just plain hideous automobiles but none other than the classic Bugatti's, take the breath away. The Italians do it on what seems to be a weekly basis. The Japanese have their share. Every American company has at least one classic they can point to. Even the Germans can compete in this arena. What the heck is wrong with the French and their automobile designers?

Let's also not forget weaponry,and safe nuclear power.My guess is that the French auto industry is government funded.Also they did have a brief flirtation with automotive genius with the Citroen SM.

[sjordan2]

You have to dig pretty far back, but I think the following marques created some of the most classic designs of all time:

Delage

Delahaye

Facel Vega

Talbot-Lago

Voisin

But to your point, most of the best examples were styled by independent coachbuilders.

Edited September 10, 2010 by sjordan2

[Greg Cullinan]

Look no further than your question for the answer,they are French !

[Chuck Most]

I've noticed that, too- there are some truly incredible French cars, but the number seems a bit low. Sheesh, GM's Buick division has a few more lovelies in it's family album than does the entire French automobile industry!

[MikeMc]

WE WE???????

[sjordan2]

WE WE???????

Do you mean wee-wee or oui, oui?

[MikeMc]

Do you mean wee-wee or oui, oui?

yes!!!!

[MikeMc]

This is not ugly?????....its not french....

Edited September 10, 2010 by MikeMc

[charlie8575]

I think it's kinda cute. What is it? From the grille, I'm thinking Alfa.

Charlie Larkin

[sjordan2]

I think it's kinda cute. What is it? From the grille, I'm thinking Alfa.

Charlie Larkin

I've owned four Alfas and they never made anything that ugly.

Blowing up the picture of the rear end reveals that it is a Goggomobil produced in Bavaria. From Wikipedia:

"Goggomobil was a series of microcars produced in the Bavarian town Dingolfing after World War II by Glas.

Glas produced three models on the Goggomobil platform: the Goggomobil T sedan, the Goggomobil TS coupé, and the Goggomobil TL van. The engine was an air cooled, two stroke, two cylinder unit originally displacing 250 cc, but later available in increased sizes of 300 cc and 400 cc. It had an electric pre-selective transmission built by Getrag and a manual clutch. The engine was behind the rear wheels. Suspension was independent all round using coil springs with swing axles."

Edited September 10, 2010 by sjordan2

[Chillyb1]

What the heck is wrong with the French and their automobile designers?

The short answer to that question is, Nothing at all! It may be a case of beauty-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder, or perhaps you (and others) are simply unaware of the many French classics, or (in some cases) crass anti-French bigotry or Gallophobia. France can hold its own against any and all other automobile producing countries in terms of technical innovation, performance, and design; and for elegance and beauty, I daresay, France surpasses all others dramatically and frequently.

Skip got off to a good start with his short list but could add Salmson, Amilcar, Chenard et Walcker, Hispano Suiza, or even Simca and Renault. I personally happen to think the Citroen DS is the most beautiful car ever mass produced.

But maybe that's just me.

During any time period, French manufacturers produced beautiful, powerful, technically brilliant automobiles, be it the 1930s:

The 1950s:

Or more recently:

There is no shortage of examples from any era nor in any automotive category that equal or surpass those from other countries. Designers from Chapron, Antem, and Figoni & Falaschi to Franay, Saoutchik, and Letourneur & Marchand, are every bit the equal of any Italian designer.

I hope this helps toward explaining your initial query.

My guess is that the French auto industry is government funded.

This is simply not true, neither as a statement of fact nor as an explanation for the original poster's questions. If you are referring to Renault's former status as a nationalized company, then you must be mistaken in your claim or your understanding of the meaning of nationalization; the company was NEVER funded by the government. No country's manufacturers were so fiercely independent in financing and management as France's. No company had any government relation before World War II, apart from munitions production and military vehicle construction; after the war both Berliet and Renault were nationalized, Berliet was fortunate to live long enough and have enough offspring to bring the company back to private family ownership. Renault, on the other hand, remained a nationalized company but was run entirely independently of any government agency or ministry. Renault was also France's largest and most successful car maker for the entire postwar period until Citroen and Peugeot merged.

Anyway, there was no government funding of any car company in France.

[Modelmartin]

A few quick points - Ettore Bugatti was Italian! He was born and raised in Milan. He was an interesting body designer - he copied horse carriages mainly, refer to The Royale Berline De Voyage that Italieri/ Testors put out. You know, the black and yellow one. It was his son Jean ( Short for Gianoberto ) who styled all of the really swoopy Bugattis like the Atlantic coupe and the T50 as Heller kitted. The only reason they are French is because the region they lived in - Alsace- changed hands from Germany to France at the end of WWI. They are an anomaly.

Having said all of that I love the quirkiness and funcionality of French cars. Citreons are so cool. Louis Renault was the French equivalent of Henry Ford. He was the biggest and best of the mass-producers and was very stubborn and independent. Voisins are very avant-garde.

We produced many ugly cars - slab-sided Kaisers, 60 Lincolns, Aztecs!!! Everyone makes a few ugly ones!!

The French even produced a small sports car powered by a Harley engine back in the the 20s and 30s - the Rally!

Lest we not forget thet the French were our allies in the Revolutionary, 1812 and Civil wars. The English fought us in all three of those wars - they were allied with the Confederacy!!

Vive le France! and French cars!

[Brett Barrow]

I think the Citroen Traction Avant series is as much a classic as any of the 30's Fords, maybe not beautiful against coachbuilt one-off's, but certainly beautiful for a mass-produced car.

[sjordan2]

The question of what car comes from what country gets cloudier in the modern world. For example, today's Bugatti is headquartered and manufactured in its original hometown of Molsheim, France, though it is owned by VW.

(And by the way, Chillyb1, why are those mediocre Renault econoboxes included in your array of French classics? Please explain.)

Edited September 10, 2010 by sjordan2

[Chillyb1]

And by the way, Chillyb1, why are those mediocre Renault econoboxes included in your array of French classics? Please explain.

They are meant as illustrations of what French car design is like in the early 21st century. They aren't at all intended to be understood as classics, but as a point of comparison to, say, Ford Taurus or Chevy Malibu, for those who don't know what cars look like in other countries. My point is that the French still produce much more stylish mass produced cars than do most manufacturers from most other countries.

[Art Laski]

What the heck is wrong with the French and their automobile designers?

You must have forgotten about LeCar! What a beaut!

[The Creative Explorer]

Just to start; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. there are many examples of nice looking cars from France, just as Italy. However, their style is different. But where France and Italy try to make their cars look nice, try Germany! Seriously; think of it. There are barely any interesting cars made in Germany that look nice, other than the 356 Porsche.

[Karmodeler2]

You have to dig pretty far back, but I think the following marques created some of the most classic designs of all time:

Delage

Delahaye

Facel Vega

Talbot-Lago

Voisin

But to your point, most of the best examples were styled by independent coachbuilders.

Hey Pete,

Jordan beat me to it, but the ones he mentioned are still influencing designers today. They are, in the design world, king. The coach builders from that era were amazing and I have several books on design and this era and the work is amazing. Just look how well received the What-the-Haye was from Boyd. He took that design and modified it. Look how the 32 Ford has some of the same ques as the cars from this era.

The French.

They might suck at defense, but they made the most beautiful cars in the world, to me. (not make....made)

And you know how many gears are on a French Tank?

5 reverse, and 1 forward.........in case they attack from the rear.

David

[Karmodeler2]

A few quick points - Ettore Bugatti was Italian! He was born and raised in Milan. He was an interesting body designer - he copied horse carriages mainly, refer to The Royale Berline De Voyage that Italieri/ Testors put out. You know, the black and yellow one. It was his son Jean ( Short for Gianoberto ) who styled all of the really swoopy Bugattis like the Atlantic coupe and the T50 as Heller kitted. The only reason they are French is because the region they lived in - Alsace- changed hands from Germany to France at the end of WWI. They are an anomaly.

Having said all of that I love the quirkiness and funcionality of French cars. Citreons are so cool. Louis Renault was the French equivalent of Henry Ford. He was the biggest and best of the mass-producers and was very stubborn and independent. Voisins are very avant-garde.

We produced many ugly cars - slab-sided Kaisers, 60 Lincolns, Aztecs!!! Everyone makes a few ugly ones!!

The French even produced a small sports car powered by a Harley engine back in the the 20s and 30s - the Rally!

Lest we not forget thet the French were our allies in the Revolutionary, 1812 and Civil wars. The English fought us in all three of those wars - they were allied with the Confederacy!!

Vive le France! and French cars!

This board is SOOOOOOOOOOO cool!!!!

you learn so much more here, because of the eclectic nature of us all.

Thanks Andy for the History lesson. I am a huge fan of Bugatti, and have books on them, but did not know this and some of the other stuff you mentioned.

This place rules!!!

David

[Modelmartin]

try Germany! Seriously; think of it. There are barely any interesting cars made in Germany that look nice, other than the 356 Porsche.

You are kidding, right? German style is different but there are so many German cars that look great I could not even list them all! 356s are great but how about most 911s, 928, 914 , 944, etc, BMW 2002, 3.0C, 320, etc, -many Audis, VW Beetle and 1st gen bus, Scirocco, Golf, Jetta, Mercedes of many eras, Horch, Maybach. They had their ugly cars, too - VW 412 gives me the willies...ugh! Porsche Cayenne, those M-B from the 90s with the front ends that looked like late 70s Camaros, BMW Isetta.

Every major auto-producing country made some great cars and some real dogs!

[Modelmartin]

This board is SOOOOOOOOOOO cool!!!!

you learn so much more here, because of the eclectic nature of us all.

Thanks Andy for the History lesson. I am a huge fan of Bugatti, and have books on them, but did not know this and some of the other stuff you mentioned.

This place rules!!!

David

I agree with you, Dave. This is the ONLY forum I am on.

I have about 35 books on Bugatti and one three-ring binder of photos and 2 three ring binders of clipped articles. It has beeen my number one interest for most of my life, ever since I got a Matchbox Yesteryears T35 when I was a kid. I still have it! Now I just need to get my act together and build more Bugatti models!!

[Karmodeler2]

Just to start; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. there are many examples of nice looking cars from France, just as Italy. However, their style is different. But where France and Italy try to make their cars look nice, try Germany! Seriously; think of it. There are barely any interesting cars made in Germany that look nice, other than the 356 Porsche.

I guess that these are just a few of the "Ugly" cars that came out of Germany. Yeah, I can see your point.

David

[DRG]

Nothing against those that like any foriegn made car but as far as I'm concerned they can not compete with the style and performance of American Built Fords, Chevys and Chryslers, Especially those built from 1935 to 1965 or there abouts.

But that is just my opinion.

Edited September 11, 2010 by prg5609

[sjordan2]

Speaking of German cars, how about the fastest production car of its day, and the first one with fuel injection? Not bad looking, either.

Edited September 11, 2010 by sjordan2