I don't really know what to call this rant!

[2002p51]

First of all, a poster used a post in the "Under Glass" section to jump off on an anti-NASCAR rant instead of keeping on topic about the guy's model. That was bad enough, but that's not what really got me.

It was this whine about today's NASCAR:

"Jap Scraps competing . IMHO ..Really ?? Those aren't any better than anything else . Look at whom is making headlines for re-calls . I was an Industry Insider . Did you ever try to get replacement parts from Japan ? The costs of the parts and time involved to get them negate the fuel savings . "

I wish people who know so little about the sport that they think those cars are really Japanese imports would just be quiet.

Let me explain something to you sir, (And I apologize for those of you who know this stuff but we have to back up and go a little slower so the remedial kids can catch up!) there's is nothing, let me repeat nothing in a NASCAR Toyota that has even the remotest similarity to the Japanese cars you seem to think are such, huh, "Jap Scraps" is the term you used.

NASCAR race cars are all scratch built right here in the good ol' USA by talented fabricators working for the various teams. The engines are developed and built here too. They are all essentially the same and you could change one from a Toyota to a Ford in an afternoon. They have nothing in common with all of those "real" Toyotas and Hondas, etc. that were recalled.

That you think they are only shows how uninformed you are about a sport you obviously don't like.

So please, take a little simple advice, (I'm trying very hard to make this easy enough that even you can understand it) stop watching NASCAR races, and never again make any comments about NASCAR on any message board any where!

Thank you very much, we now return you to your regularly scheduled program!

Edited January 6, 2011 by 2002p51

[2002p51]

  On 1/6/2011 at 6:16 PM, mark taylor said:

Because it's required in any "today's NASCAR" discussion let me be the first to throw in the "They should put the STOCK back in stock car! They don't look anything like regular cars!!!!" rant, too.

Oh yea, and I always tell those guys that they're watching the wrong series. They should be going to SCCA Showroom Stock races.

NASCAR hasn't used "stock" cars since the fifties. The "put the STOCK back in stock car" bus left the station decades ago!

[Guest]

I did stop watching NASCAR years ago when Earnhardt Sr.came from 13th with 3 laps to go to win the race on draft track (can't even remember the track now)with of all people Michael Waltrip "supposedly" pushing him! He was normally just trying to get a head of Kyle Petty so that he wouldn't come in last place. If they were going to stage a race,they should have at least made it more believable!

IIRC,one of the A's in NASCAR stands for American. There's nothing American about a Toyota. I don't care how many are made here,it's still a foriegn car! What's next,Hyundai,Nissan? Might as well,you can't tell them apart anyway except for the decals. Bill France is rolling in his grave.

[bajaboy5b]

in rc racing we use to have a so called "stock" class at my local track i raced in it a year and a bit at the end end the car were almost as fast as all out mod cars thats y i got out of racing TC on road went to drifting for a year still doing it on and off now moving back to my real home off road SCT racing ahhhhhhh back to the dirt track.

[ra7c7er]

  On 1/6/2011 at 6:34 PM, Donnie Boger said:

the only way to see real stock car, support your local short track

I agree completely. My local had to close 5 races early because of low attendance. Really sad considering that 3 of the 5 classes of cars has the closest championship point battles in 10 or so years. If you want to see great racing go to a local track and watch them pour their heart and soul into every lap.

[Guest]

  On 1/6/2011 at 6:43 PM, Donnie Boger said:

National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing

Thanx Donnie. I guess I just took it for granted that it was an American sport. It has been a long time since I watched it.

[2002p51]

  On 1/6/2011 at 6:41 PM, plowboy said:

There's nothing American about a Toyota.

And there's nothing "Toyota" in a NASCAR race car.

[2002p51]

  On 1/6/2011 at 7:32 PM, DoubleD said:

just imagine if NASCAR decided to allow fuel injection

They've talked about doing just that for a couple of years now. But there are a few very good reasons why they don't really want to. For one thing, it will make no difference to the fans in the stands. You can't see that the cars use EFI or carbs. (And the average fan doesn't know the difference anyway.) For another, it wouldn't make the racing any better. And finally, all it will do is cost the team owners more R&D money, something they really can't afford to take on in a down economy where sponsor dollars are already hard to find.

Big expense with no real benefit.

So don't hold your breath waiting for EFI to come to NASCAR. And I'm okay with that for the very same reasons.

[oldscool]

NASCAR has turned into a little made for TV game which no longer is real racing and it will wind up causing the demise of the NASCAR entirely.

[2002p51]

  On 1/6/2011 at 7:59 PM, DoubleD said:

since i dont follow it, anyone have pictures of the Toyota V8 used in the NASCAR racecars? i'm guessing here it's based off the one used in their truck line?

It's based off the one that was first used in their NASCAR Camping World trucks which was based off the NASCAR engines of the other guys!

It shares nothing with any regular production street Toyota engine.

[2002p51]

  On 1/6/2011 at 8:02 PM, oldscool said:

NASCAR has turned into a little made for TV game which no longer is real racing and it will wind up causing the demise of the NASCAR entirely.

I think on any given Sunday I can find 43 guys that would argue what that. As far they're concerned, what they're doing is really racing!

[my name is nobody]

NASCAR drivers circle a piece of asphalt, Hour after Hour, headed for the finish line.

NHRA competitors drive straight to it....

[2002p51]

  On 1/6/2011 at 8:16 PM, CJTORINO said:

NASCAR drivers circle a piece of asphalt, Hour after Hour, headed for the finish line.

NHRA competitors drive straight to it....

I like that!

[2002p51]

  On 1/6/2011 at 8:43 PM, Bluesman Mark said:

Drew is 100% right.

Again Drew is right. Racing is racing.

Did everybody see this? Okay.

[Harry P.]

I think the real reason that so many people have been turned off to NASCAR racing is the fact that the cars have indeed morphed into cars that are not in the least bit "stock."

"Stock car racing" started out with actual STOCK cars racing. Soon, racing teams started to bend the rules and began installing race-specific parts, and also along the way NASCAR rules gradually changed (partly in the interest of safety, mainly for various other reasons, though). The result was a gradual transition through the years... the cars became less and less "stock" as time went on. Like several others have said, the last vestiges of "stock" in stock car racing disappeared years ago, but the "stock car" name has stuck, even though it's completely inaccurate today.

And that's exactly the problem with so many ex-NASCAR fans: the sport has completely changed from what it used to be (actual competition between the manufacturers resulting in the "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" theory) to a corporate "sport" where every car is identical, and any competition between Ford, Chrysler, GM. etc. has been completely eliminated. Old-school NASCAR racing was a totally different thing than today's version, and a lot of people don't like the path NASCAR has evolved along–from an exciting Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge shootout to a race where the competition between manufacturers' rival technology has been eliminated and the only "competition" is between the drivers. The excitement of different cars racing against each other is long gone.

Remember how exciting and fun to watch NASCAR was when the "aero wars" were raging? When Chrysler and Ford were battling to out-do each other on the track with innovative cars like the Daytona and the Talladega? Now those were fun races to watch! But of course, NASCAR has homogenized everything to the point where every car is basically identical and labeling a car a "Ford," a "Chevy," or a "Dodge," etc. is meaningless.

[Lownslow]

i forgot that people still watched that so called racing

[Modelmartin]

National Association of Stockcar Crashing And Racing

I do not understand this fixation with Carburators in the year 2010!! NHRA has the same problem. You would think that electronic engine management in a Nitro car would be a good thing. Why do pro Stocks have Carbs! Silly people.

I concur with Mark and Drew that racing is racing. I very occasionally watch a little Nascar because there are drivers competing. The cars are dull as paste! For great action I like the Australian series with V8 RWD sedans on road courses. Those guys go at it hammer and tongs. Way better than anything else around!

[Lownslow]

  On 1/6/2011 at 9:24 PM, Modelmartin said:

National Association of Stockcar Crashing And Racing

I do not understand this fixation with Carburators in the year 2010!! NHRA has the same problem. You would think that electronic engine management in a Nitro car would be a good thing. Why do pro Stocks have Carbs! Silly people.

I concur with Mark and Drew that racing is racing. I very occasionally watch a little Nascar because there are drivers competing. The cars are dull as paste! For great action I like the Australian series with V8 RWD sedans on road courses. Those guys go at it hammer and tongs. Way better than anything else around!

i love the V8 series

[2002p51]

  On 1/6/2011 at 9:18 PM, Harry P. said:

I think the real reason that so many people have been turned off to NASCAR racing is the fact that the cars have indeed morphed into cars that are not in the least bit "stock."

The only chink in that theory, Harry, is that when NASCAR was at the absolute peak of it's popularity, around 2001-2002, after nearly a decade of steady growth in attendance and TV ratings, the cars were not the least bit stock then either.

Here's what I have written about in the past and what has actually been repeated by some rather well known NASCAR "pundits";

NASCAR's big growth years were due in no small part to it becoming the "newest in thing". It became a fad and people who had never thought about racing before were suddenly "fans". Well, there was a lot about racing that these new fans didn't understand and NASCAR's leadership started to make changes to cater to this new audience. Purists and long time fans like me (since 1961) didn't like the changes but we love racing and stayed with the sport.

Unfortunately, like every other fad, these new NASCAR fans have now left the sport and have all moved on to the "next in thing". The result is attendance and TV ratings being re-adjusted back to the pre-fad days.

Now here's some words from a long time fan who will continue to be a fan forever;

There's nothing wrong with the actual racing. The cars are exciting to watch and the racing is more competitive now than it has ever been. If you don't believe me just look at the results of some of the races back in the supposed "good ol' days". You can find races where the winner is two laps ahead of second, and second is five laps ahead of third, and only 14 cars finished the race. Look it up.

I like the current cars just as they are. They don't need EFI, or stock bodies, and front wheel drive. They race well, they're fast and competitive. And that's what's important.

[slantasaurus]

Does anybody realize that Jaguar actually WON a race in Nascar ??? Check the records, I believe it was 1952, Watkins Glen........Big Bill France didn't have a problem with "ferin" cars back then. As far as carbs vs EFI, wait a few weeks until Speedweek in Daytona, you'll be hearing an announcement about that change coming probably later this year.And for everybody who whines about "the cars aren't stock" go to a f#*&%! SCCA Showroom Stock race !!!!!! They need to sell some tickets. Instead of bashing Nascar, go back to complaining about how much pro NFL/MBL/NBA players make.

[MikeMc]

  On 1/6/2011 at 8:51 PM, 2002p51 said:

Did everybody see this? Okay.

Yep....that would be #15

[mistermodel]

  On 1/6/2011 at 7:59 PM, DoubleD said:

since i dont follow it, anyone have pictures of the Toyota V8 used in the NASCAR racecars? i'm guessing here it's based off the one used in thier truck line?

no toyota had to build an all new old fasioned engine.I'm sure I read some where they have a chevy bellhousing

[sjordan2]

Only five years ago, NASCAR was still one of the fastest-growing sports in America, with a surprisingly large fan base of women. I've spent quite a bit of time working on NASCAR-related advertising promotions, and in recent years I have seen the sport self-destruct. As others have mentioned here, I think it is mostly due to the "Car of Tomorow" attempt to level the playing field, which has created less differentiation among the teams.

The SPEED channel is feeling the hurt:

"The network took a significant hit in prime time in the third quarter, as deliveries dropped 23 percent to 198,000 total viewers. Adults 18-49 plummeted 39 percent in the quarter, per Nielsen, as Speed’s deliveries of that demo went from 122,000 in the year-ago period to 75,000. The 25-54 crowd also dropped off by a 39 percent margin (90,000).

Speed did begin to see some improvement in recent weeks, with November prime deliveries down by just 3 percent. That said, both larger demos were off by 23 percent.

The network’s fortunes are largely dependent on the strength of Nascar, which has weathered serious viewer losses over the last four years. According to Nielsen data, Nascar has seen nearly a quarter of its TV fan base walk away since 2006, when it finalized its current eight-year media deals with Fox, Turner Sports and ESPN."

I might add that the cost of attending NASCAR races has been prohibitive during the recession, and those who used to attend my client's Food City race nights surrounding their 250 and 500 sponsored races, and turn out for other events have dwindled substantially due to cost.

Edited January 6, 2011 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

Drew, your "fad" theory makes sense. And doesn't that early 2000s era peak of interest in NASCAR coincide with FOX beginning to televise most of the races? Before that NASCAR was only available on cable, I think. Fox made it available to everyone with a TV set, and that may have contributed to the temporary surge in NASCAR popularity.

But I do think the fact that modern-day NASCAR bears absolutely no resemblance to what NASCAR was in the 60s and 70s is also a factor in the way many people feel about today's NASCAR. For newer fans, the identical (or nearly identical) cars is the only NASCAR they've ever known, so they don't contrast and compare to the type of cars that ran in NASCAR 20-30-40 years ago, the way many older and long-time fans can't help but do.

[highway]

  On 1/6/2011 at 8:07 PM, mark taylor said:

The engines used in NASCAR vehicles, all brands, are purpose-built race engines now. One could argue the Ford/GM/Dodge engines at least have some similarity to the old pushrod Chevy, Ford, and Mopar small blocks but there's not a single part that is shared with street car engines anymore.

Mark, you could not hit the nail any harder on the head!

I'm not sure if anyone else watches the Science Channel, but their show "How It's Made" had a segment on recently (not sure when, I watched it a couple nights ago cleaning out the DVR) that covered how NASCAR engines are made, and more specifically Roush/Yates Ford engines. What surprised me the most, being a lifelong NASCAR fan, was what they started with to build the engine, RESIN! I'm not sure if the entire engine gets built this way, because all the show profiled was the making if the intake manifold, but it started as a CAD drawing and the intake was "printed" in resin just like TDR Innovations makes their resin bodies and kits for us. If you happen to get a chance to watch this episode in a rerun, it would be worth the time to watch!