i finally solved the jdm vs. usdm fight!!!

[Rob Hall]

One Japanese car I'd like to own is an NSX...not the most powerful sports car, but they handle so well..and I love the engine sound (I have a buddy w/ one, have driven it a few times on twisties in the mountains...what a fun-to-drive car).

[RodneyBad]

at one point i owned both of these cars at the same time,

the Subaru was easily 10 times better of a car. it did nearly everything the Mustang did and then a whole lot more and better. the Mustang in comparison to the Subaru was like a 5lb sledge hammer to the Subaru's X-Acto precision and effectiveness.

I think Mr Zinn summed it up Perfectly.

Imports X-Acto precision and effectiveness

Domestic 5lb sledge hammer or Just Fast and Furious .

Nowadays, I don't care as much about fast like I did in my twenties when I had the Izusu and also a 1988 Trans Am GTA, I care more about getting from point A to point B, and the fuel mileage along the way. It also doesn't matter what badge is on it either, just as long as it gets me there.

Highway also sums it up quit well too..

Of course a 1988 Trans Am GTA with the 5.7 TPI is perty cool too.

Edited June 4, 2011 by RodneyBad

[RodneyBad]

One more thing I think.

It takes more money to make an Import car go as fast as a American Muscle car V-8..

But takes more Money to make a American Muscle car to brake and handle as good as an Import.

Probably due to the weight and size difference. ?

Just my thoughts, I could be rong?

[CEKPETHO BCE]

I think these arguments over cars are dumb. There are many good and many bad cars from each country and brand. If you like a certain car then you like a certain car. I get really angry when some people try to tell me that the car I like is not as good as the car they like... I'm not a violent person but sometimes I just wanna slap a dumb person. Maybe this argument over cars doesn't really affect me as much because I like mostly all kind of car styles from pretty much all periods of time (well mid 20's and up).

Now as for ford vs chevy argument, in my personal opinion I think 20s to late 40s ford made better cars, but early 50s to mid 70s (with an exception of mustang) chevy made better cars. We all know that most american cars (with a very few exceptions like the Corvette and Delorean and few others) were pretty crappy after that.

[LAone]

here i thought we were talking about model cars...

[highway]

Highway also sums it up quit well too..

Of course a 1988 Trans Am GTA with the 5.7 TPI is perty cool too.

Sorry to burst your bubble Rodney, but mine only had the 305 5.0 TPI since it was a (leaky) T-Top car!!

EDIT:By the way, here's a pic I found on the interweb that looks just like it, man I miss that car!!!

Edited June 4, 2011 by highway

[RodneyBad]

Sorry to burst your bubble Rodney, but mine only had the 305 5.0 TPI since it was a (leaky) T-Top car!!

Ya just had to burst my Bubble.

How will I sleep now?

When I was a tow truck driver, The only GTA I ran across had the 5.7 TPI and a bad starter.

Wack of a hammer got him going again tho.

Mmmmm, And to think, I thought all GTAs and IROKs had the 5.7.

Learn something new every day here.

[highway]

Mmmmm, And to think, I thought all GTAs and IROKs had the 5.7.

Learn something new every day here.

That's what I thought to until I found the 5.0s were for those vain enough we had to have t-tops!!!

[jeff ewaskey]

What I feel the OP was saying, and I do agree, is that he enjoys both cars. Every car is designed and built with a purpose in mind. What that purpose is are what usually appeal to the owner in some way, shape or form. Any car or truck can be built or modified to do just about anything its owner wants it to do given the right parts and enough cash. I do agree with Andrew that the Ford vs. Chevy vs. Mopar or the import vs. domestic things have been blown way out of proportion. That got real old a very long time ago. The point I believe Corvette Jeff was trying to make is that in his opinion he enjoys both the Honda and the Vette the same but for different reasons. Agreed its like comparing apples and bananas but different things appeal to different senses. Although I have been primarily a GM guy, I consider myself a "car guy." There is something that appeals to me about countless different cars or trucks over the course of history. True signs of the times, IMHO, are that you have import car companies participating in NASCAR and professional and sportsman drag racing which are motorsports considered truly American. On the other hand you have drifting, a primarily Japanese developed form of racing, where American muscle cars, both past and present, are competitively active. Just goes to show the us versus them days are long since dead.

[Nick Notarangelo]

These days it's very hard to tell a "foreign" car from a "domestic" car. The labels are almost meaningless, few cars are actually built only in the country that they are supposedly "from"...

Example everyone thinks my 96 saturn sl2 is my from japan but it was made in Tenn here in the states

[jeff ewaskey]

Sorry to burst your bubble Rodney, but mine only had the 305 5.0 TPI since it was a (leaky) T-Top car!!

EDIT:By the way, here's a pic I found on the interweb that looks just like it, man I miss that car!!!

Ya Matt those cars sure were alot of fun. They may not have been the most powerful F bodies but compared to the ones just 5 years before, they made alot of car guys smile.

[highway]

Ya Matt those cars sure were alot of fun. They may not have been the most powerful F bodies but compared to the ones just 5 years before, they made alot of car guys smile.

I know I had a lot of fun, especially when I was racing a Dodge Viper GTS Coupe, until the stupid computer shut it down at 125 MPH!!

[Greg Myers]

here i thought we were talking about model cars...

I'm still trying to figure out what JDM and a USADM is.

[Harry P.]

I'm still trying to figure out what JDM and a USADM is.

Japanese Domestic Market, US Domestic Market.

[Jamez]

I'm stupid.....nor do I want to be PC

THAT SAID.......I AM A PROUD AMERICAN.....I RIDE AND DRIVE AMERICAN.

AS MANY OF US OLD BIKERS SAY

"WE DON'T CARE HOW THEY DO IT IN JAPAN"

GOD BLESS THE USA.....THE ONLY PLACE FOR FREEDOM AND FREE THOUGHT

Well..... My civic AND my Caliber were both built in CANADA, not the USA. Not caring what they do in japan has nothing to do with it, i am supporting my local economy either way. My Cavaleir was built in MEXICO.... guess what, bought it in Canada, still supporting my local economy buy buying and driving it.

but then again, as a Canadian, maybe I am not free nor free of thought, seeing as USA is "THE ONLY PLACE FOR FREEDOM AND FREE OF THOUGHT"....

I bet you're one of those people that try to sell the "My pipes are loud for other peoples safety" BS....

seriously....

[LAone]

Well..... My civic AND my Caliber were both built in CANADA, not the USA. Not caring what they do in japan has nothing to do with it, i am supporting my local economy either way. My Cavaleir was built in MEXICO.... guess what, bought it in Canada, still supporting my local economy buy buying and driving it.

but then again, as a Canadian, maybe I am not free nor free of thought, seeing as USA is "THE ONLY PLACE FOR FREEDOM AND FREE OF THOUGHT"....

I bet you're one of those people that try to sell the "My pipes are loud for other peoples safety" BS....

seriously....

haha, your cavalier was built in mexico. lols, did you know that your cavalier is a design from toyota? yup, do a google search for "toyota cavalier" check out some of the parts boxes when you order parts from GM/chevy. they will say "toyota"

[Jamez]

yeah, I've seen photos of the Toyota Cavalier.....

The whole argument of import or domestic is pointless, as people will always like what they like at the moment....

As far as the Op's original question, your comparing apples to kidney beans.... there is no comparison to be made between those two cars

What I can tell you, from personal experience...

I bought 97 civic 6 years ago.... It has been an excellent car. No issues with it in the entire time. It is nimble, but utterly gutless... so I did something about it. And this is where my opinion on the subject comes from.

I bought an engine, tore it down, installed a forged rotating assembly, threw in a stage 2 cam, over sized valves, springs retainers, full port polish, a 57 trim t3/t4 and a whole pile of other parts.. all to the tune of about $5000 with tuning and driving, that does not include the original purchase price. It made 305hp... it was stupid fast when the turbo kicked... but was completely useless on the street. Downsized the turbo, made 240hp, now It was fun on the street, but you couldn't steer it in the corners... it just wasn't build for that.

While I was doing that, my boss purchased his own project.. a 67 Chev c10. built a stout little 350 and a 700r4, converted to disc front brakes, installed new springs, heavy shocks, and heavier sway bars and drove away... for under $3000 it made close to 400hp including price of the vehicle

with the 305hp tune... he didn't stand a chance in the straight line, but on the road course, he could drive circles around me, the little car just couldn't handle the power through the corners.

with the 240hp tune, he walked away from me on the straight, but I could no keep up on the road, but he still had a torque advantage coming out the corners.

While all this was going on, a good friend bought a brand new STI.. it drove circles around both of us, but for $35,000 more than either4 of us had spent.

If I was to do it again, I would never recommend tuning the civic... better, more reliable performance is available and a better price.... BUT.....

People will always like what they like. To each there own

[highway]

I bet you're one of those people that try to sell the "My pipes are loud for other peoples safety" BS....

It's "Loud pipes saves lives!!!"

[Rob Hall]

haha, your cavalier was built in mexico. lols, did you know that your cavalier is a design from toyota? yup, do a google search for "toyota cavalier" check out some of the parts boxes when you order parts from GM/chevy. they will say "toyota"

Nonsense..the Cavalier was a GM design..Toyota sold them in Japan as Toyota Cavaliers as reciprocity for GM selling NUMMI-built models in NA like the Chevy Prizm and Pontiac Vibe (both of which were Toyota-based).

Edited June 4, 2011 by Rob Hall

[Rob Hall]

Japanese Domestic Market, US Domestic Market.

I usually see it as USDM or NA to cover both the US and Canada markets.

[Darin Bastedo]

I don't want to flame anyone here, but there's a lot of "stuff" in this thread that's just factually flawed.

First, even thinking that comparing a 25+ year old car to one 10 years less old proves anything, well, doesn't. By the time cars get to be of that age their condition, mileage, and maintenance have a lot more to do with how they run (or don't) than anything else.

Then, to compare cars from two different decades that sold for very different prices, designed for completely separate users, one front-drive, one rear, one a V-8 one a 4-cylinder...it's just apples to oranges.

The Corvette has .0633 hp/per pound, Del Sol at best .0631/pound (160 horse Si model) other 1.6 Del Sols have .055/pound, so the Corvette has an equal-or-better power-to-weight ratio. However there's a tremendous advantage to the Corvette in Torque, which should be obvious enough because the Corvette is much faster in a straight line if both are running properly. Also, in the subjective realm of handling, the Del Sol may seem lively enough, but in ultimate cornering grip the Corvette is of another magnitude. .95g to .84g means as far as cornering speeds, the Corvette would be in another league.

I'm not defending the Vette, just pointing out the capabilities of the cars. The Vette should out-perform the Del Sol. It was a high-cost sports car in it's day, and here it's being compared to an economy car from another era, but both are ancient history compared to any 2011 cars.

Compare that Del Sol to a 1994 Vette? The performance gulf would be even more enormous. It's only to fair compare cars from the same era if you're going to make a "this company (or country) builds a better car than that company (or country)" statement from the comparison.

Any comparison would only be valid for new-vs-new, same vehicle price point, same type of car. That's usually hard to keep entirely consistent...and even then, the differences are subjective. One will be faster, or go around a race track quicker, those kinds of things can be verified. But is that all that matters? How much do you weigh gas mileage, cost differences, or how comfortable the car is in contrast to it's top speed or 1/4 mile time? What about those other subjective things like predicted resale value or brand image, or...or...no 2 people see that stuff the same anyhow, so it's pointless to argue those points.

People like Japanese cars, people like German cars, people like American cars, etc. As long as they do, they'll keep building them. Simple as that. Buy what you want, but realize that not everyone shares your likes and dislikes, so they might favor something completely different.

You are right mark, and I'll add this to the answer. even comparing the same Make and model from today to the ones in the 80's you will find an incredible performance gap.

2011 911 Turbo S vs. 1989 Porsche 959 The 2011 will blow away the 959 as the 959 cannot even come close to 0-60 in 2.8 sec / 1/4 mile in 10.6 sec.

2011 Corvette ZR-1 vs. 1989 Corvette ZR-1 no contest

2011 Mustang GT vs, 1989 Mustang GT, again no contest.

The technology advances in the last twenty years in the auto industry have been greater than in the previous 80 years. I currently drive a base economy car that comes with more features, more power, and better fuel economy than the one I owned in 1989 and in todays dollars cost less.

[SuperStockAndy]

Sorry if this offends anyone...but you've been warned.

I HATE foreign cars. They have no appeal to me. At all. I think they are overrated hunks of junk. (Again, you've been waraned!!!)

ALL AMERICAN, BABY!

[Jamez]

Define "American" Please.......

Mexico is in North America, so therefore "American"....

[Longbox55]

Define "American" Please.......

Mexico is in North America, so therefore "American"....

And Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, and Nissan all build cars and trucks in the United States, most wiht 90% or more of their components sourced inside the US.

[highway]

And Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, and Nissan all build cars and trucks in the United States, most wiht 90% or more of their components sourced inside the US.

Don't forget Subaru and Kia, too. If I remember correctly, there is a Subaru plant in either Indiana or Illinois and a Kia plant in Georgia.

I forget what line it is, but there is a Toyota plant not too far from Charleston right here in wild, wonerful West Virginia!!