Proposed new forum topic

[Agent G]

When modeling armor, it's referred to as "rivet counting" which is not a "term of endearment". I've been following a thread on another site where a chap from England is building a Russian T 55 cold war era tank. His work is spectacular, and attention to detail superb. Trouble is the rivet counters began their inane babbling regarding the inside of the engine hatches. He has now rebuilt those PE and wire screen hatches three times. Remember, these are on a 1/35th scale tank. After all was said and done someone pointed out that this particular version of tank was built in Poland, and his original hatches were correct.

3000 miles away I could hear the screams.

I always enjoy learrned discussion and input from the more knowledgeable. Point is there are a certain group who will always have "the answer" and if you don't believe them then you are the idiot.

I fart in their direction.

G

[sjordan2]

When modeling armor, it's referred to as "rivet counting" which is not a "term of endearment". I've been following a thread on another site where a chap from England is building a Russian T 55 cold war era tank. His work is spectacular, and attention to detail superb. Trouble is the rivet counters began their inane babbling regarding the inside of the engine hatches. He has now rebuilt those PE and wire screen hatches three times. Remember, these are on a 1/35th scale tank. After all was said and done someone pointed out that this particular version of tank was built in Poland, and his original hatches were correct.

3000 miles away I could hear the screams.

I always enjoy learrned discussion and input from the more knowledgeable. Point is there are a certain group who will always have "the answer" and if you don't believe them then you are the idiot.

I fart in their direction.

G

Well said. The major difference between armor and the General Lee, though, would be the difficulty of finding accurate documentation of these make-believe movie cars that had 3 to 4 different "hero" versions during the series (not to mention hundreds of stand-in stunt cars and scale model doubles), and went through numerous modifications during their on-camera lives. You can go to the most authoritative sources, ranging from Cooter to book authors who had access to studio records and people, and you won't find agreement on very much. All of which makes your point very well taken. I'm sure that military vehicles also go through numerous modifications, but I would think those are easier to document than the General Lee.

Edited August 7, 2011 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

To most armor builders accuracy is everything. It's the whole point of model building. The more accurate, the better.

Somehow I don't see the average DOH fan being that concerned about "getting it right."

It's apples and oranges. Or should I say apples and moon pies.

[sjordan2]

To most armor builders accuracy is everything. It's the whole point of model building. The more accurate, the better.

Somehow I don't see the average DOH fan being that concerned about "getting it right."

It's apples and oranges. Or should I say apples and moon pies.

Prior post that was here has been edited after sense of humor kicked in.

Edited August 7, 2011 by sjordan2

[sjordan2]

On another note, I wonder why no one has shown an attempt to build General Lee's daddy, a 1958 300 D called "Traveler" (the name of Gen. Lee's horse, Traveller), the midnight ride of real-life bootlegger Jerry Rushing. He and the car appeared in the movie, "Moonrunners," loosely based on his exploits and recollections, which was adapted by the producers to create "The Dukes of Hazzard." The AMT '57 300 C kit would probably make a good starting point. The picture below is of the actual car after restoration by Lawrence Wolfel.

Anyone wishing to know more about the origins and comparisons between Rushing's life and DoH will find some interesting comments in these excerpts from the book, "The Real Duke of Hazzard."

http://www.amazon.co...ader_B003D7JZJE

Edited August 7, 2011 by sjordan2

[diymirage]

On another note, I wonder why no one has shown an attempt to build General Lee's daddy, a 1958 300 D called "Traveler" (the name of Gen. Lee's horse, Traveller)

or its grand son...traveler

the guy who played bo duke made a movie "collier and co" where he is a "car dealer" who only sells high end cars...cars he aquires by finding people who allready own one and tricking them into a race for the pinkslips in his...wait for it...hemi orange 69 charger WITH vector rims named traveller

[sjordan2]

or its grand son...traveler

the guy who played bo duke made a movie "collier and co" where he is a "car dealer" who only sells high end cars...cars he aquires by finding people who allready own one and tricking them into a race for the pinkslips in his...wait for it...hemi orange 69 charger WITH vector rims named traveller

I saw that in looking up all this info - starring, written, directed and financed by John Schneider.

Edited August 7, 2011 by sjordan2

[Junkman]

Everybody now change their avatar to the General Lee!!

Done.

[sjordan2]

Done.

Okay, Christian, you one-upped me. But here's General Lee on TRAVELLER. Take that.

I tried to make it my avatar, but the forum isn't cooperating.

EDIT: Hmm. Seems the avatar change finally kicked in. Possibly a delay in my own cache that kept me from seeing it.

Edited August 7, 2011 by sjordan2

[bigphoto]

With all this drama surrounding General Lee it's no wonder Grant was an alky!!

Seriously though it is strange about the controversy as this thread went to three pages very quickly and really

most of the discussion is about the drama.

Edited August 7, 2011 by bigphoto

[Harry P.]

With all this drama surrounding General Lee it's no wonder Grant was an alky!!

Seriously though it is strange about the controversy as this thread went to three pages very quickly and really

most of the discussion is about the drama.

People here love the drama. Even though they say they don't.

That's why the "drama" topics get the most views and posts.

[charlie8575]

how about the movie/tv car thread? that sounds better cause you can post dukes of hazzard and smokey and the bandit side by side almost!

Skip,not sure if you are half-joking or not, but I do think it would be worth considering, as long as those General Lees can be joined by other TV and film vehicles.

I actually agree. I think this is a good idea. If the software and other systems can handle it, I say give it some serious thought.

Charlie Larkin

[sjordan2]

With all this drama surrounding General Lee it's no wonder Grant was an alky!!

Seriously though it is strange about the controversy as this thread went to three pages very quickly and really

most of the discussion is about the drama.

Yeah, it started out innocently enough, with a simple question about which way to go with a 1/16 build. Somehow, any discussion on this subject seems to deteriorate, though in this particular case I found some good advice, for which I am grateful.

Anyway, as I mentioned above, I would still like to see nominations for a great build of the General Lee. Wouldn't you? Should I start a new thread? After all, this is possibly the most discussed build among all those ever posted on this forum, and I say again that I think it would be of interest to experienced and new General Lee builders. I bring this up because most of what I see here is criticisms about what's wrong with these kits and builds, and no one ever proposes what's right.

However, I have a feeling that as soon as someone posts their idea of a good build, it will be like trying to get off of an LST at Omaha Beach.

Edited August 7, 2011 by sjordan2

[Agent G]

Well said. The major difference between armor and the General Lee, though, would be the difficulty of finding accurate documentation of these make-believe movie cars that had 3 to 4 different "hero" versions during the series (not to mention hundreds of stand-in stunt cars and scale model doubles), and went through numerous modifications during their on-camera lives. You can go to the most authoritative sources, ranging from Cooter to book authors who had access to studio records and people, and you won't find agreement on very much. All of which makes your point very well taken. I'm sure that military vehicles also go through numerous modifications, but I would think those are easier to document than the General Lee.

Which is my point exactly regarding the General Lee. There was no "one" General, so who's to say build X is any more accurate than build Y? Keeping in mind the differences in builders LOL!

Accuracy is the thing in the armor world, yet again there is a lot we don't know. A Sherman is a Sherman is a Sherman, not so, 56,000 were built in four years. Dozens of foundries contributed to the cause. Each foundry was allowed to cast major assemblies the easiest and most expeditious way. A Shermaholic can point out where the hull or turret came from, just by looking at details. Foundries added markings to their parts. Lot numbers, acceptance numbers and foundry logos, were the norm. Now days, nearly 70 years later, no info exists as to who, what, or where some of these markings mean. Then, different units added or modified the tanks to suit their needs, not to mention painting or repairing them. This was done on the fly, so to speak, adapting to changes in the climate, terrain, and enemy forces encountered.

So, knowing all this, who's to say any one of my Sherman builds is more or less accurate than anyone elses?

Sound familiar?

G

Edited August 7, 2011 by AgentG

[Agent G]

One more point if I may?

We have photos, recollections, and factory specs to go by when building something like the General Lee or a Sherman.

What I have always proposed, is as builders, we are creating a "snapshot" of that vehicle. Our model General Lee, Sherman tank, or F double nutts Jetplane, is a screen capture, if you will, of that subject in a certain period of time.

So, if 30 seconds later, it was destroyed in a stunt/attack/crash, would that version be any more accurate?

G

Edited August 7, 2011 by AgentG

[sjordan2]

One more point if I may?

We have photos, recollections, and factory specs to go by when building something like the General Lee or a Sherman.

What I have always proposed, is as builders, we are creating a "snapshot" of that vehicle. Our model General Lee, Sherman tank, or F double nutts Jetplane, is a screen capture, if you will, of that subject in a certain period of time.

So, if 30 seconds later, it was destroyed in a stunt/attack/crash, would that version be any more accurate?

G

We have no factory specs on the heavily modified General Lee, which bears little resemblance to a factory car. Remember, the show ran from 1979 to 1985, and the cars were from 1969 and 1970. All we would have to go by would be records from car suppliers Andre and Renaud Veluzat, then Ken Fritz, and eventually in-house at Warner Bros., with studio prop department work orders. And, having worked as an intern at Warner Brothers (prior to DoH) and watched their automotive department at work on a Bugatti Atalante, Packards and lesser cars, I can tell you that the work was pretty haphazard. It would be interesting to see screen shots of anything on DoH that shows the hood open, and whether such shots match up with each other over time.

And, as I mentioned above, there were over 200 stunt cars used for the crashes, most of them similar to the hero cars only with the paint job and graphics, so nothing about them is particularly relevant.

Edited August 7, 2011 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

Since there were literally dozens of "General Lees" used over the course of the series, how can anyone possibly build an "accurate" one? Seems impossible. There are probably a million details that varied from car to car to car to car... to car..... to car..... to car....... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Junkman]

Albeit rare, under bonnet photos of the movie cars do exist. Here is one:

[Jon Cole]

To truly find the answers you seek… for accuracy of that DOH build, you must first jump an orange 1969 Dodge Charger off a ramp, catch at least 30 feet of air, then ace a perfect 4-point landing…. All while screaming “Yeee-HA!

When you get discharged from the hospital, then let’s talk the need for accuracy.

[mikemodeler]

Albeit rare, under bonnet photos of the movie cars do exist. Here is one:

Now see there, who knew the General Lee had air conditioning? M/T valve covers? I will have to get busy sourcing those parts for my version.

Question for you accuracy fanatics- What color blue is that on the inner fenders and firewall? I want to be sure that I am correct for fear of being scolded here on the forum.

[sjordan2]

Albeit rare, under bonnet photos of the movie cars do exist. Here is one:

The sad fact is that no one can surely document which was an original General Lee TV car. Some restorers say they rescued one or two from the studio back lot dump - hero car or stand-in, who knows. Supposedly they kept either original gold or blue/green engine bay and underhood-under trunk lid body parts, one restorer says they had an original that they added air conditioning to, it's endless. About the only documentable car is John Schneider's "Bo's General Lee," created for the 1997 reunion TV movie, which sold for $285,500 at Barrett-Jackson in 2009.

When I was at Warner Bros., I'd often lurk around in the prop department. They had a glass case with movie treasures, including about a dozen copies of the Maltese Falcon. No one knew for sure which ones were used in the movie or how many were just for standbys.

[Agent G]

Since there were literally dozens of "General Lees" used over the course of the series, how can anyone possibly build an "accurate" one? Seems impossible. There are probably a million details that varied from car to car to car to car... to car..... to car..... to car....... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Exactly!

G

[sjordan2]

Just to add something on a similar subject, at the same time I was at Warner Bros., I took a tour of Disney studios and saw the storage area of the studio backlot, which was covered in a sea of about 3 dozen white VW beetles in various states of disrepair - Herbie, The Love Bug.

[bandit1]

Just to add something on a similar subject, at the same time I was at Warner Bros., I took a tour of Disney studios and saw the storage area of the studio backlot, which was covered in a sea of about 3 dozen white VW beetles in various states of disrepair - Herbie, The Love Bug.

that brings up a question !

how would you go about being able to find out and maybe purchase one of the vehicles that was in the back lot say for instence i want a general lee movie car if one still exist? is there any restrictions owning one and what .... i would love to get any and all info on this subject .... lets just say im chasing dreams!

[Harry P.]

that brings up a question !

how would you go about being able to find out and maybe purchase one of the vehicles that was in the back lot say for instence i want a general lee movie car if one still exist? is there any restrictions owning one and what .... i would love to get any and all info on this subject .... lets just say im chasing dreams!

You would have to get in touch with the studio, they owned the cars. Maybe they could help you track down where they all went. But so many years after the fact, I'd bet that all of the General Lees have either been sold or thrown in the crusher a long time ago.