Die Cast Opinions

[FASTBACK340]

This morning I was surfing the `net and I came across Corrupted Diecasts web site. Wow... they have some neat stuff for 1/18th die casts! I have a 1/18 die cast of my personal car and was planning on doing a replica. On the Corrupted site I found my Mickey Pro E-T's are available, plus a few other accessories I could use. They have complete engines, rear frame clips w/ 4 links, aluminum wheels, slicks, wheelie bars, MSD Ignitions, etc....

Now here's the question: I have always been a plastic 1/25th scale modeler. With the introduction of aftermarket accessories for 1/18th. die cast's, it's hard not to consider the new scale medium. I plan on doing my Barracuda for obvious reasons. Would anyone here consider doing that scale as a regular build choice? I mean, working throttle linkage and rotating distributors.... who could resist?

Let's hear it. And please, keep it civil.http://www.corrupted....com/index.html

[paul alflen]

AS WE AGE IT IS EASIER FOR ME TO BUILD IN A LARGE SCALE .(VISION PROBLEMS). YOUNGER BUILDERS DON'T HAVE THESE VISION PROBLEMS. 1/25 IS EASIER TO STORE THAN 1/18TH SCALE, DEPENDING ON YOUR STORAGE SPACE. WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY, WHEN MODELING GO FOR IT! THE DIECAST WILL PROBABLY HOLD UP BETTER IF YOU ARE GOING TO DISPLAY IT WITH YOUR 1/1 CAR. A PLASTIC MODEL WILL PROBABLY WARP ON CRUISE NIGHT IN THE HOT SUN!!!

[Junkman]

I have been into 1:18 scale diecasts for quite a while now.

I suggest to open an extra section for them, like there is already for for big scale, trucks, etc.

[Darin Bastedo]

To me model cars are model cars regardless of the scale or material. I prefer plastic only because that is the material I'm most used to, although lately I've been making more and more parts out of metal for various reasons. I say to each his own, there is even a modeler out there, whose name escapes me, that makes some of the coolest models out of old tin plate tonka toys.

[Harry P.]

According to the website, he's going out of business.

[Junkman]

According to the website, he's going out of business.

Yeah, but we aren't. So how about an extra section for 1/18 diecasts?

[Harry P.]

Yeah, but we aren't. So how about an extra section for 1/18 diecasts?

I think a diecast section is a great idea. In fact, if it was up to me a lot of things here would be changed. But it's not my decision to make, it's Gregg's decision.

[Scale-Master]

Yeah, but we aren't. So how about an extra section for 1/18 diecasts?

IF it happens (notice big if) why not more than just limiting it to 1/18 scale? To me the medium is more relevent than just the scale. I'd suggest die-cast: all scales.

[Harry P.]

IF it happens (notice big if) why not more than just limiting it to 1/18 scale? To me the medium is more relevent than just the scale. I'd suggest die-cast: all scales.

Exactly. Diecast is the defining theme, not the scale.

[Chuck Most]

Why have a separate section for diecast? I'm of the 'don't care what material the body is made from' school of thought. Styrene plastic and resin are already accepted, I don't see why so many people still have a negative opinion of diecast metal models and kits, other than the fact the majority of diecasts are a bit 'toyish' as far as detail and proportions go- but even that is changing. I don't see why diecasts need to be put into their own separate bubble and confined from styrene and resin- that would (to me at least) only send a message reinforcing the idea that diecasts somehow 'aren't worthy' enough to be mentioned in the same breath as the other two mediums, regardless of scale. There are all kinds of worthy modeling subjects the plastic kit makers and resin casters (so far) haven't touched which are readily available in diecasts, in all kinds of different scales. Though I think the scale thing might be a whole 'nother can of worms.

[Harry P.]

Why have a separate section for diecast? I'm of the 'don't care what material the body is made from' school of thought. Styrene plastic and resin are already accepted, I don't see why so many people still have a negative opinion of diecast metal models and kits, other than the fact the majority of diecasts are a bit 'toyish' as far as detail and proportions go- but even that is changing. I don't see why diecasts need to be put into their own separate bubble and confined from styrene and resin- that would (to me at least) only send a message reinforcing the idea that diecasts somehow 'aren't worthy' enough to be mentioned in the same breath as the other two mediums, regardless of scale. There are all kinds of worthy modeling subjects the plastic kit makers and resin casters (so far) haven't touched which are readily available in diecasts, in all kinds of different scales. Though I think the scale thing might be a whole 'nother can of worms.

We have a separate Resin section, makes sense to have a separate Diecast section.

A lot of people still have that weird bias against diecast models (which I will never understand, BTW)... so it makes sense as far as the forum goes to separate diecasts into their own separate area... if for no other reason than it makes them easier to find, and keeps the "diecasts aren't real models" crowd happy.

As far as diecast models being 'toyish," that all depends on which diecasts you're talking about. Check out Danbury, Exoto or AutoArt, just to name a few... their models are better detailed and more accurate than 90% of us could create with a styrene kit.

[Chuck Most]

We have a separate Resin section, makes sense to have a separate Diecast section.

A lot of people still have that weird bias against diecast models (which I will never understand, BTW)... so it makes sense as far as the forum goes to separate diecasts into their own separate area... if for no other reason than it makes them easier to find, and keeps the "diecasts aren't real models" crowd happy.

As far as diecast models being 'toyish," that all depends on which diecasts you're talking about. Check out Danbury, Exoto or AutoArt, just to name a few... their models are better detailed and more accurate than 90% of us could create with a styrene kit.

Toyish- no, not those particular examples! I think the majority of those aren't exactly 'project fodder', though, due to price. I don't know about many of you, but I'm not about to take a very nicely done model that retails for about a bill and a half (or more), then blow it apart and rebuild it! You can find good deals on them- sometimes something as simple as the orignal box being missing amounts to a 50% discount. (That's how I got my Franklin Mint '39 Ford Convertible model... which is VERY nice, by the way!) The more 'bargain priced' stuff is toylike, though, but even those are getting better. Heck- Kinsmart makes quite a few diecast pull-back toys ('98 Ford Police Interceptor, Dodge Caliber, and a Lincoln Stretch limo) that actually appear to be pretty accurate as far as body details and proportions go, and they can be had for right around five bucks.

I'm well aware of the resin section, but it seems that section serves reviews of resin pieces more than anything. (And some very heated debates every so often.) I'm thinking the OP was suggesting having the diecast section as something more like the trucks section- where WIPS and completed models are displayed in the same sub-forum. Again, I don't see why they need to be 'quarantined' from other models with different body materials. Speaking of... I always wondered why there was a separate resin section, but nothing for photoetch or decals. Wouldn't having an 'Aftermarket' section be more useful, than just highlighting one particular medium used? I don't think having separate categories simply because the body or parts of a model aren't made from styrene plastic serves any real purpose.

As far as the 'diecast aren't models' crowd goes- I don't get it either. What I really don't get is the 'styrene or bust' attitude... and then the guys with that mindset have no issues at all using resin, photoetch, machined metal, and other 'NOT-styrene' parts on their plastic kits. Besides... ALL of the diecast models and kits I have in my possession at the moment are largely plastic anyway... the interiors, chassis, engines, wheels, bumpers, etc, are all plastic... it seems even on a diecast, diecast itself is the least-dominant material in the whole works! If you are willing to use metal and resin parts on a plastic kit to build what you want, how is a mostly plastic kit that just so happens to have a diecast body any different?

[FASTBACK340]

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm not a model snob. I've built stuff based on Hot Wheels.... I've built large scale plastic......I've built 1/25 die cast. I was just wondering with the aftermarket supporting the larger scale stuff if people would be more supportive?

BTW: The anti-die cast mentality stems from people having "model" collections.. of die cast. This more or less separated them from "builders". To give a similar comparison,I know I will NEVER try Guitar Hero, because I can play a REAL guitar. Some model builders will NEVER touch a die cast because it's not a "model".

All I know is while this guys doors are open, I'm supporting him. I just heard from Brian, a rep from the site, this morning. They are in the process of doing 1/18th scale Centerlines to go with my Mickey Thompson E-T's for my Barracuda. Maybe I'll do my Barracuda next after I finish the Edsel, which is coming along nicely. I've updated the thread several times recently.

[Chuck Most]

The collector thing might have quite a bit to do with it, now that you mention it. Still- I know quite a few guys who collect unbuilt plastic kits. That's another thing I don't understand- to me buying a kit with no intention to build it is like buying 2x4s, sheets of plywood, siding, and shingles and just letting them sit on a shelf in the garage instead of using them to build a shed.

[gray07]

I like diecast to, in fact i have a 1/18th dodge durango, that i took apart a couple years ago and painted but its kind of lowrider with the big wheels and ive never liked that, so now iam looking for some mudders to make it a lifted durango, also i just bought a 1947 studebaker truck the one with the dogs, that iam going to redo. So i think a seperate section would be cool.

[CadillacPat]

IF it happens (notice big if) why not more than just limiting it to 1/18 scale? To me the medium is more relevent than just the scale. I'd suggest die-cast: all scales.

As my distinguished colleague from the great state of California has suggested, All Scales.

A broad scale category would open the door to even 1/64 Customized DieCast.

Hey Mark, How've you been? CadillacPat

[Scale-Master]

The collector thing might have quite a bit to do with it, now that you mention it. Still- I know quite a few guys who collect unbuilt plastic kits. That's another thing I don't understand- to me buying a kit with no intention to build it is like buying 2x4s, sheets of plywood, siding, and shingles and just letting them sit on a shelf in the garage instead of using them to build a shed.

I don't see it that way. When you buy a kit, it is far more than the raw materials (i.e. lumber). It is already something worth appreciating for the engineering and molding that has been done.

If you bought a bunch of Arrow aluminum shed kits and kept them as kits, that would be a closer analogy.

I would bet most people have an intention of building kits they buy, we just buy more than we can build.

[martinfan5]

The collector thing might have quite a bit to do with it, now that you mention it. Still- I know quite a few guys who collect unbuilt plastic kits. That's another thing I don't understand- to me buying a kit with no intention to build it is like buying 2x4s, sheets of plywood, siding, and shingles and just letting them sit on a shelf in the garage instead of using them to build a shed.

Chuck, I agree with that too, why would you want to collect models kits not to ever build them, I really do not understand that at all. I have a few diecast of cars that are no kitted , like the ford CVPI, and a newer body style tahoe. The only thing metal on them is the body.

[Chuck Most]

I don't see it that way. When you buy a kit, it is far more than the raw materials (i.e. lumber). It is already something worth appreciating for the engineering and molding that has been done.

If you bought a bunch of Arrow aluminum shed kits and kept them as kits, that would be a closer analogy.

I would bet most people have an intention of building kits they buy, we just buy more than we can build.

I suppose the shed kit would be a better anaology now that you mention it. I don't always agree with the kit itself being anything interesting, though- when the kit is unbuilt, yes, there's an appreciation for the work that went into it, and perhaps even some historical value if it's an old or long-gone kit. But to me, a kit really doesn't become anything interesting until somebody takes the time and skill to built it into something. Sure, an unbuilt kit may have some intristic value to some, but just sitting there in a box it's just a bunch of plastic castings, no more special or noteworthy than the thousands of others churned off the assembly line the same day.

I think for me it's more of a symbolic thing. A kit is meant to be built. By buying a kit with no intention of ever building it, (and I can think of at least three guys in my somewhat sparsely-populated are who do exactly that, though I will concede that they are in the minority) you're depriving it of its purpose. Yes, I think some kits should be preserved in unbuilt condition for historical reasons, but for the most part, if I get a kit, it's getting built, period. (Diecast or not! ) And I know in most cases building the kit kills its value, but I'm a modeler, not an investor.

[Harry P.]

Guys that collect unbuilt kits with no intention of building them are collectors, not model builders. A totally different hobby.

But the whole "diecasts are not real models" mentality is goofy, if you ask me.

Diecasts come in both pre-built and kit form. A builder can easily take apart a pre-built diecast model and rebuild or rework it as he sees fit.

Plastic models also come in both pre-built (promos) and kit form. A builder can easily take apart a pre-built plastic model (promo) and rework it as he sees fit.

I don't see the difference. I don't see why anyone would consider diecasts to not be "real" models.

Even the pre-built diecasts are obviously scale models. They're not model kits... but they are obviously models!

And since diecasts are models, and our magazine and forum is Model Cars, I think we need to include a diecast section.

[martinfan5]

Guys that collect unbuilt kits with no intention of building them are collectors, not model builders. A totally different hobby.

But the whole "diecasts are not real models" mentality is goofy, if you ask me.

Diecasts come in both pre-built and kit form. A builder can easily take apart a pre-built diecast model and rebuild or rework it as he sees fit.

Plastic models also come in both pre-built (promos) and kit form. A builder can easily take apart a pre-built plastic model (promo) and rework it as he sees fit.

I don't see the difference. I don't see why anyone would consider diecasts to not be "real" models.

Even the pre-built diecasts are obviously scale models. They're not model kits... but they are obviously models!

And since diecasts are models, and our magazine and forum is Model Cars, I think we need to include a diecast section.

Harry, I agree diecast are models, just a model with a metal body, and sometimes with less detail that a model will have, there should be a diecast section on here.

Take for intance the Ford Crown Vic, CVPI body style from 1999-current, I doubt we will ever see it in a kit from, so police car modelers like me, our only choice is going the diecast route, i have , done two. I treat them just like a kit, I take it part, paint everything, add parts to it, them put it back together.

[Chuck Most]

Here is how I see it...

You can take apart a 1:1 '32 Ford and rebuild it as a hot rod, and nobody will dispute that the end result is a hot rod. But, if you take apart a factory-assembled die cast car and rebuild it, suddenly a dispute comes up in certain circles that it somehow isn't a model. I don't see the difference, really. It's a lot like the 'steel vs. fiberglass' arguement in the 1:1 rodding scene... again, who cares what material it's made from? Somebody built the thing. But because one has a body made from a material that isn't accepted by a somewhat small but VERY vocal segment of the hobby, you run the risk of being shunned. When you think about it, fiberglass reproduction bodies and parts kept the hot rodding hobby alive during a few lean stretches- I think if more people accepted starting out with diecasts in scale modeling, the hobby would be stronger and more diverse.

As far as some diecasts not starting out in kit form... I don't see the validity in that arguement, either. Promos came from the factory fully assembled, and I've seen quite a few very killer models built from dissassembled and rebuilt promos. Quite a few resin kits you can buy are basically reproductions of promos, sold in kit form. In both cases, no one questions the.... legitimacy, I suppose you could say, of the finished product. Such activity only seems to be viewed in a negative light when the subject starts out as a diecast body model.

One other thing I've noticed- there seems to be quite a bit of apathy toward snap kits, as well. Those are plastic too, right? Again, I don't see the point. Sure, the majority of them don't have an engine, but neither do a lot of the high-end Japanese curbside kits, and the diehards among us swoon over those. If you want a late '70's Coupe De Ville, a '75 Cutlass Supreme, a late '90's Dodge Ram 2500/3500, or an '88-00 C-series GM dually, a snap kit is your only choice. If you're so inclined, you can kitbash any one of these with a common full-detail kit, but a sizable number in the modeling community overlook them simply because of the skill level number printed on the box.

[martinfan5]

Chuck, you are right, snaps can great kits, if you spend a little time on it, maybe kit bash,you can make a nice build out of a snaper . people are just stubborn, and if its not a full glue model kit, its not good enough for them

[Scale-Master]

I think a root of the "problem" stems from when they are entered in contests. A lot generalizing here to keep it simple:

Some of the die-cast builders come from a customizers background, so modified die-casts may be viewed by some modeler as "big Hot Wheels" or "toys".

Other die-casts I have seen that were "modified" still wore the factory paint and detail work. That is not a level playing field in competition.

Once a die-cast is disassembeled it is a kit, or worse, (we just went through this discussion in the Ferrari thread). But many modified die-cast models do not get fully reworked. So there may be some issues of what is factory built and what is modeler built.

Are they still models? Yes. Just like snap kits build into models.

[Harry P.]

Diecast models offer us a ton of subject matter that's just not available in styrene (or resin).

It seems absolutely crazy to me that a person who's hobby is model cars would shun diecasts and completely dismiss them as "not worthy" or not legitimate somehow. Oh well... such a weird, closed-minded outlook is their loss.