Opinion Please --- Re Customs in Contests...

[tabsscale1]

Obviously there's no one good, solid answer here. I would define classes my way, another guy would define classes his way.

There's no one correct answer. And rules vary from contest to contest, and judges (and their knowledge and ability) vary from contest to contest.

In the end it's all about what each particular contest organizer decides it will be.

In our contest to be an out of Box build it has to have the instructions with the kit. So if someone would bring the 49 Merc in to be entered and did not have the instructions with them It would be entered in the Customs Class or Street machine Class No matter if it had extra details addedor not. They could also enter it in the Misc. Class as well.

[moparmagiclives]

In our contest to be an out of Box build it has to have the instructions with the kit. So if someone would bring the 49 Merc in to be entered and did not have the instructions with them It would be entered in the Customs Class or Street machine Class No matter if it had extra details addedor not. They could also enter it in the Misc. Class as well.

But ,if they did have the instructions it would "have" to be in the box stock class ? Or is it up the them at that point?

[Scale-Master]

I don't think any contest requires an entrant to enter in Out-Of-The-Box even if they bring their instructions. It is up to the builder.

[John Goschke]

Well, I never really thought this was confusing until now.

It always seemed pretty clear to me that the “Custom” in the title of that model car contest category referred to the fact that the subject of the model happened to be a Custom car, without regard to whether the modeler heavily modified the kit, added a Flintstone resin body onto an existing kit, or simply built a kit (such as Revell’s Custom Merc) out-of-the-box.

The category typically includes scale models of full-scale Mild, Semi, Full and Radical Custom cars and, unless the category is broken down into these subcategories, they’re all judged (or voted on, in the case of NNL-style events) together.

It seems to me that it’s the responsibility of the modeler who does an extensive amount of custom work on a given model to display it to its best advantage, which would include an attractively (or at least neatly) typeset list of the modifications, perhaps with some photos, so that the judges and spectators can fully appreciate their model versus the lowered, nosed and decked stocker with the re-sale red paint next to it on the table. You can’t take for granted that everyone will notice that you might have taken a Lindberg ’53 Ford hardtop and converted it to a chopped, channeled, and sectioned ’55 Lincoln Capri, especially if it’s a subtle, low-profile color. I’ve been to a lot of different kinds of model contests over the years and the one thing that most car modelers do not do well is displaying and documenting their models in a way that separates them from the rest of the stuff on the table.

However, I think there is an argument to be made for a sub-category like “Customs: Modeler Modified,” or something like that, for models that have had extensive body-style conversions (ie. Phantom pickups and wagons) or body modifications such as chops, sections, etc. to an existing kit or combination of kits.

As for the guy who takes Revell’s ’49 Merc out of the box and does a stellar job building what’s supplied therein (including getting the windshield installed correctly!), it’s his choice to enter it in the “Out-of-the-Box” category or the “Custom” category ('cause after all it IS a Custom, along with the 20 others with skirts and DeSoto grill teeth!)

Edited February 14, 2012 by John Goschke

[Eshaver]

Heck, don't ask me or us , ask one of the judges running the contest . Seems different rules apply in different contests . I had a similar situation when I tryed to enter a Out of the box with instructions 59 Rambler wagon in Out of box . They made me run it with Curbsiders . Ed Shaver

[tabsscale1]

But ,if they did have the instructions it would "have" to be in the box stock class ? Or is it up the them at that point?

It is up to them at that point

[Darin Bastedo]

Here is my take on the subject:

cus·tom·ize (kst-mz)

tr.v. cus·tom·ized, cus·tom·iz·ing, cus·tom·iz·es

To make or alter to individual or personal specifications

I take this to mean any car altered from it's stock configuration is customized. To the extent to which it is customized, and in what manner seems to be the bone of contention. To me a custom paint job is enough to call it a custom. Will it compete well with a car with modified bodywork/ usually not, But too often my builds don't fit any model building category perfectly anyway.

If you goal is to win awards, then by all mean tailor your build toward what it takes to win that award. In most custom classes that includes well done body mods, killer stance and perfect paint. If your goal is like mine, which is to fill your display case with Models you enjoy looking at then build for yourself. Take my Sam Hollingsworth Nomad. This is considered an iconic custom, but is too close to stock to win the beans in the custom class of most contests, and is too modified for stock class. It's not as wild as most street machines so it won't do well there either. So I will enter it in a the custom category, because that is where I believe it deserves to be, but it will only be to give the entry fee to support the host club, and to show it off to my friends and possibly meet new ones.

In the end that is my main interest in the hobby. To build models I like and to meet people and make friends. it doesn't take a $2.00 trophy to show that my work is appreciated, the Compliment I got on it earlier in this thread means more to me than a trophy ever will.

[Jon Cole]

Many contests & shows, each with its own criteria. It seems like there is no one absolute.

I wonder if our hobby had some type of organization, with one set of standards, would anyone follow them? Would that even be possible? Is the 'Point System' the answer? This is a great topic, and shows that, if nothing else, how difficult it is to nail down one set of standards.

[Darin Bastedo]

Many contests & shows, each with its own criteria. It seems like there is no one absolute.

I wonder if our hobby had some type of organization, with one set of standards, would anyone follow them? Would that even be possible? Is the 'Point System' the answer? This is a great topic, and shows that, if nothing else, how difficult it is to nail down one set of standards.

Man if one was to start an organization like that, would hate to serve on the committee that was tasked with setting the standards. Just look at the difference of opinion here, and only a handful of us are involved in this thread.

[John Goschke]

Heck, don't ask me or us , ask one of the judges running the contest . Seems different rules apply in different contests . I had a similar situation when I tryed to enter a Out of the box with instructions 59 Rambler wagon in Out of box . They made me run it with Curbsiders . Ed Shaver

If the model was truly built out-of-the-box without mods, it should have been your choice to enter in OTB or Curbside (for which it also would have been eligible.) The contest organizers didn't know what they were doing.

[Darin Bastedo]

As for the guy who takes Revell’s ’49 Merc out of the box and does a stellar job building what’s supplied therein (including getting the windshield installed correctly!), it’s his choice to enter it in the “Out-of-the-Box” category or the “Custom” category ('cause after all it IS a Custom, along with the 20 others with skirts and DeSoto grill teeth!)

Let's not forget that a killer custom paint job on a model can take as much if not more effort and time as chopping a top or other mods...

I've got two weeks worth of bodywork and paint into this box stock single color 'Vette. The body was black sanded to smooth out the the imperfections in the kit body as well as leveling the transitions from panel to Panel to make the reflections in the paint as straight as can be. then the body was polished with 6000 grit cloth,painted and polished. Now imagine if on top of all that doing a flame job or some sort graphics. That kinda puts a different spin on "he just painted a model without modifying it"

[bobthehobbyguy]

Let's not forget that a killer custom paint job on a model can take as much if not more effort and time as chopping a top or other mods...

I've got two weeks worth of bodywork and paint into this box stock single color 'Vette. The body was black sanded to smooth out the the imperfections in the kit body as well as leveling the transitions from panel to Panel to make the reflections in the paint as straight as can be. then the body was polished with 6000 grit cloth,painted and polished. Now imagine if on top of all that doing a flame job or some sort graphics. That kinda puts a different spin on "he just painted a model without modifying it"

Dann,

Very nice job on your Corvette.

To me the whole point of the box stock class is to allow all to compete on a level playing field. You can only what is in the box , paint and glue and sometime bare metal foil. It comes down to how well you can paint and assemble the model. Doing a very clean build of a box stock model can be a real test of one's skills.

bobthehobbyguy

Edited February 14, 2012 by bobthehobbyguy

[promo55]

Dr. Cranky and Harry are right on this subject. The problem is where the folks judging the contest do not know what category to put the model in. I have seen this happen over and over. If someone is going to stage a contest, they had better have hard and fast rules. I was part of a contest where they had 98 classes. That is riduculous, and is also why I no longer get involved isn model contests!

[sjordan2]

How many people on this forum actually participate in model contests? Seems to me from everything I see that it's sketchy at best how all that stuff works. It all makes me certain that I would never enter a contest. How rewarding is that, anyway, when the judging is so undependable and won't give your model the objective criticism/accolades it deserves? We seem to have more complaints than appreciation, and who needs that? Fuggeddaboutit.

Edited February 14, 2012 by sjordan2

[LoneWolf15]

Skip ,

I do ! Each show varies , good , bad , or in between those two points ! They are a great way to meet other modelers , hang out with your buddies , pick up a tip or two , and add to the ever expanding stash at a good price .

The good shows know what they're doing , the rules are set in stone with no variation ! They run smooth as silk and a pleasure to attend . Others are still learning and evolving , they will get there soon enough . The bad , they simply fade away , run into the ground by bias and stupidity !

One of the best times on the planet are the NNL events . They are simply a huge show case of tremendous talent . The vending areas are enormous and chockful of all the toys that one could imagine !

I encourage show attendance whenever I can , especially the NNL East ! It is a wonderful experience for each and every modeler .

[Chuck Most]

As someone who does Custom Paint work, no a paintjob does not make a car/bike a Custom. It's a stock car with a paintjob, there is nothing else custom about the vehicle.

Okay.... a '58 Thunderbird with all the trim and scripts shaved, shaved door handles, spot lights, Lake pipes, wheel covers that obviously aren't stock, lowered several inches and obviously wearing a custom paint job is not a custom? Sorry bud, that ain't a stock T-Bird with a paint job.

[Ramfins59]

Well said Donn. I have participated in many model contests in NY, NJ, CT, MA, MD & PA and really enjoy competing. Going head to head with other great modelers who become new friends, and learning new techniques and skills is priceless. Yes the NNL East is by far one of the absolute BEST model events ever. You get to meet many friends that you haven't seen in a long time, and yes, access to all those vendors alone is worth the price of admission. I can't wait to get to this year's Show.

[Psychographic]

Okay.... a '58 Thunderbird with all the trim and scripts shaved, shaved door handles, spot lights, Lake pipes, wheel covers that obviously aren't stock, lowered several inches and obviously wearing a custom paint job is not a custom? Sorry bud, that ain't a stock T-Bird with a paint job.

My reply was not based on the overall car, yes that car is modified. I should have not quoted the first sentance, my reply was based on the idea of a paint job making a car custom. Sorry for the confusion.

I do not think a paintjob can make a custom car. Why? Where do you draw the line on what amount of effort makes it custom? A color change can be considered custom, but it no way makes the car custom. What if some guy sees something on one of those car shows on TV spouting the praise of Duplicolor decides to mask a few stripes and rattle cans to it, is it now a custom car? There really is no way to draw a line on how much of a paintjob it takes to make it custom, therefore I don't consider a car custom if it just has some paintwork.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Psychographic

[Darin Bastedo]

Darin, not to pick a fight with you here but that Corvette you posted is not box stock, IIRC you scratchbuilt the side pipe covers and also used aftermarket photoetch on that build.

Point taken, I guess I mis-spoke, the point I was trying to make was even though it is completely stock bodied a whole lot of work went into the body. BTW those really cool scratch built side-pipes I spent hours scratch-building....

Completely Wrong! Screwed up bad and didn't do my research!...

There are no holes in the sidepipe covers the black is painted on. I could have used the stock pieces and detail painted them! Also apparently from this photo, my bodywork is non-prototypically smooth too.

[Guest Dr. Odyssey]

Wow that Porsche is killer!  Shake & Bake!And if it was a real car ( I thought I read it was based on one) it could be "Dealer Stock" and "Customized".  For the Factory Stock purists I have a question.

Would you disqualify a Revell '69 Z/28 from Factory Stock since the kit builds only with headers and the real cars came with manifolds installed?  Headers in the trunk to be dealer or self installed.

"Dealer Stock" or "Factory Stock"

Edited February 15, 2012 by Dr. Odyssey

[Chuck Most]

Okay, David. Thanks for the clarification.

[moparmagiclives]

Wow that Porsche is killer!  Shake & Bake!And if it was a real car ( I thought I read it was based on one) it could be "Dealer Stock" and "Customized".  For the Factory Stock purists I have a question.

Would you disqualify a Revell '69 Z/28 from Factory Stock since the kit builds only with headers and the real cars came with manifolds installed?  Headers in the trunk to be dealer or self installed.

"Dealer Stock" or "Factory Stock"

I would say factory stock, they came with them from the factory. Now your getting into hypothetical situations from an owners stand point. Do you have the mso for it still, is it 50 state legal

It still represents a factory car.

Edited February 15, 2012 by moparmagiclives

[Dr. Cranky]

This thread is definitely worth its weight in gold.

[Nate]

how about this one? i think this fits into both "custom" and the box stock categories quite nicely and effectively.

this model was built by another member here and is no doubt in my mind a custom Porsche that is also built box stock. here is the original thread,

http://www.modelcars...showtopic=34266

I would say that is a custom car, but not a "Custom", which implies a particular style, such as the Hirohata Merc, the X-Sonic, the Aztec, Marcos Cruz's awesome T-bird, Steve Boute's work, or Andy Johnson from Texarkana. It should fit into the box stock category, though.

[Guest Dr. Odyssey]

I would say factory stock, they came with them from the factory. Now your getting into hypothetical situations from an owners stand point. Do you have the mso for it still, is it 50 state legal

It still represents a factory car.

I think you missed my point.  It is not hypothetical, it is factual.  The headers were not installed at the FACTORY.  They came in the trunk.The kit only provides headers.  So the kit can't be FACTORY Stock, but it can be DEALER Stock.</p>

Edited February 15, 2012 by Dr. Odyssey