How to get that great finish?

[John Pol]

How do you guys get that great finish from your primer to your paint. Would someone explain from the beginning to the end result. I`m sure I`m not the only one that can`t the finish that some of you people get.

John Pol

[GeeBee]

I'll try and explain what I do using photo's

Bodyshell sanded to remove any flash and mold line, a few coats of plastic primer, then wet sanded using 3600 grit paper, if you have any marks or defects in the primer coat no matter what you do, it's going to show through the colour coats

I use cellulose lacquer, but most paints work the same, cellulose just sets quicker and needs a little more polishing, a few mist coats, then build up the coats until the coverage is good, then I usually go over with a good wet coat

Although the paint looks good, you can see on the bonnet the orange peel, but that's not a problem, I leave my paint to harden for at least 48 hours, then it's on with the wetsanding, again starting with 3600, then 4000, and finish off with 6000

Once the paint is levelled out, I start the polishing process, first I use the compound that comes in the Micro Mesh polishing kit, then different grades of automotive polishing, starting the Poorboys SSR2, then finishing with meguires swirl X, if you've got it right, you should end up with the paint looking like this

[W-Machine]

What Geoff (GeeBee) said is absolutely true. The only addition I would make is that cleanliness of the surface to be painted is an important part of the process. I usually wash parts to be painted with an old toothbrush and mild dish soap, and allow them to air-dry, exercising caution not to touch anything so as not to impart any contaminants.

[Chief Joseph]

Excellent photos, Geoff! This should be a sticky in the Tutorial section.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Here's a ton of info pulled from the MCM archives. Everything is discussed in detail.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amodelcarsmag.com+paint+and+polish&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=site:modelcarsmag.com+paint+and+polish&client=firefox-a&hs=Vba&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&ei=dQGAUcT2F4H69QTTmYHAAw&start=10&sa=N&fp=1&biw=1538&bih=733&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&cad=b&sei=YgOAUefIEYve8ASW6YAQ

[John Pol]

Thanks guys I`m sure you helped me and others and thanks for the photos it does help. I guess with metallic paint jobs you would have to watch your sanding process.

John Pol

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 4/30/2013 at 6:14 PM, John Pol said:

....... I guess with metallic paint jobs you would have to watch your sanding process.

John Pol

In MANY cases, DO NOT sand metallics. TEST each metallic paint to be sure it will tolerate sanding without ruining the metallic effect. In MOST cases, you really will want to clear-coat before sanding a metallic, just as you do on a 1:1 basecoat / clearcoat paint job. Lighter colors are generally less tolerant of damage to the metallic appearance.

The reason is this...metallics are tiny suspended particles of various powdered pigments or metals in a tinted-clear carrier paint. Just getting them to lay out evenly can be tricky enough, but sanding to remove orange-peel will OFTEN remove some of the tinted clear the metallics are dispersed in, and will uncover or expose the metallic particles themselves. It's VERY UNLIKELY that you'll ever get absolutely even uncovering of the particles, and a blotchy color will result. SOME metallics are very forgiving of this, some ARE NOT.

If you get runs or dust in a metallic, allow it to dry fully, then carefully sand out the problem. Lightly scuff the rest of the car, and try to apply a perfect final 1 or 2 color coats to even out the color again. Try NOT to touch or disturb the metallic at this point. After it's flashed, shoot a medium wet coat of CLEAR to seal the surface. I have found 3 coats of most clears to be sufficient to allow aggressive color-sanding and polishing of the clear without any danger of breaking through into the metallics. PRACTICE, and TEST.

This is 5 coats of Testors "1-coat" lacquer metallic, and 3 coats of clear. It took 5 coats of color to get full coverage. I sanded a test panel shot at the same time as the body of the car, and got blotches, so I applied 3 coats of Testors wet-look clear. You can see there's very slight orange-peel. Try to learn to shoot your materials slick to eliminate excessive sanding and polishing.

[GeeBee]

  On 4/30/2013 at 5:41 PM, W-Machine said:

What Geoff (GeeBee) said is absolutely true. The only addition I would make is that cleanliness of the surface to be painted is an important part of the process. I usually wash parts to be painted with an old toothbrush and mild dish soap, and allow them to air-dry, exercising caution not to touch anything so as not to impart any contaminants.

Yes I missed that bit out, but kind of took it as normal to wash the body and keep the work area and spray booth clean, after the primer coats has been wetsanded, and left to dry, before the first colour coats goes on, I go over the body and body parts with panel wipe on a lint free cloth, then I go over the body with a tack cloth, all these items should be available at any motor factors or body repair shop ...

[Guest G Holding]

You only need two words to define the process and the result of good paint

CLEAN and SMOOTH

And do not forget to take your time..

Look at Gee Bee's all the work is to get it...CLEAN and SMOOTH

Look at Bill's Chevelle ,,,,,,CLEAN and SMOOTH

Ask any painter worth paying....CLEAN and SMOOTH

[Ace-Garageguy]

A note about cleanliness...today i went to spray a body I've had in primer for weeks, shrinking in after major bodywork. Just a couple of swipes with sandpaper to touch up some details, and a quick blow-off with dry compressed air, and I started spraying. WRONG. Some kind of contaminate had got on the surface of the body while it was sitting, and it FISHEYED everywhere.

Now, if there's anyone on here who should know better than to shoot ANYTHING before cleaning it, it's me. My standard procedure on 1:1s and models is to wipe down a primered surface with 70% isopropyl alcohol just before spraying color. I learned a long time ago that I don't have this type of problem if I do that. So, I got in a rush, was distracted, and forgot about the final cleaning. Horrible fisheyes all over one side of the body.

Just to verify that was actually the problem, I stopped spraying and let the black lacquer flash off entirely, then cleaned the OTHER side of the model with 70% isopropyl and, yessir, the paint laid down real pretty and flowed out real nice...no problem at all. But I still have to sand off all of the mess and probably re-primer and re-block the first side. Stupid waste of time.

The moral of the story is THINK, DON'T RUSH, and keep everything CLEAN.

One more cleaning note: I've found it's a good idea to scrub new plastic BEFORE PRIMER with Comet, hot water, and a toothbrush. Get in all the little nooks and crevices. This method works much better getting in small places than any other, doesn't soften and obliterate details like sanding does, yet still makes a good 'tooth' for the primer to adhere to.

[CadillacPat]

Colorcoats after 24 hrs can be dusted with InterCoat Clear to avoid fisheye when Clearing.

CadillacPat

[Blown03SVT]

GeeBee mentioned PoorBoys SSR2 for the fine scratches... someone likes thier 1:1 swirl and scratch free as well. I find that Most of the compunds and polishes for automotive paints are a little too aggressive for most enamels. Notice, Geoff was spraying laquer which dries harder than most enamels. For enamels Mequires Scratch X or Plastic X would be sufficent enough to knock down the haze left over from the polishing process and leave that nice gloss. Now how much farther you want to go is up to you. I recently shot black Testors enamel cleared with old school Testors enamel clear (it's what I had stashed on hand). The softness of the paint refused to polish up where there was no micro marring. I ended up hitting it with some glaze (Prima Amigo if it matters) to add that final pop and fill the micro marring. FYI, a true automotive glaze in refinishing is koalin clay based so it can fill scratches.

[ZTony8]

Bill,I'm surprised that you needed 5 coats of "non 1 coat" 1 coat to cover the Chevelle.It's my experience that that paint shoots much thicker from the can than Tamiya lacquer(but not as thick as Testor enamel).Did you first decant it to an air brush?

I do like the clear (even if it does spray out a bit thick) because it doesn't attack decals like the old Tamiya clear did.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 5/1/2013 at 7:47 PM, ZTony8 said:

Bill,I'm surprised that you needed 5 coats of "non 1 coat" 1 coat to cover the Chevelle.

This was the first time I'd shot Flaming Orange, and I shot flat test panels over both gray and white primer. Three coats of orange over white was definitely brighter than over gray, and 3 coats appeared to be sufficient to get a perfectly even color. This body has some heavy mods, primarily a 4" scale top-chop, and I'd used Duplicolor high build gray primer to surface the putty work. I decided to shoot a thin coat of Duplicolor white sandable primer over the gray to get the orange to pop. I had a few dust nibs in the white, and very careful sanding with 1000 grit still went through the white on a couple of areas. Rather than re-prime in white, I decided to just shoot color until I got complete hiding. I'm a very picky SOB when it comes to critiquing my own work, and It took 5 full wet coats to completely hide the gray ghosting through to my satisfaction. The color was also pulling away from some of the high edges and panel cut-lines, so I also lightly sanded it between the first 3 coats to help control this.