berr13 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I've been working on a Revell 1969 COPO Nova, and I started wondering how widespread and readily available these cars actually were. Revell states that Chevy dealers were using the COPO system to order them off the production line. I'm curious just how true this statement is, and if I would have been able to find one on the Felix Chevrolet lot in LA in 1969, for example. Did random dealers across the country have factory built 427 Novas for sale in 1969, or were they only available from select dealers like Gibb, and closely accounted for? Anyone have any facts that would shed some light on my latest burning question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbox55 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 There were no factory built 427 Novas, as GM deemed the Chevy 2/Nova platform as too lightweight to handle the power of the L72 427. The handfull of 427 Novas that do exist were built by Yenko. even Yenko admited, after testing them, that GM was right, the 427 is way too much engine for the Nova platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outragis Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Yenko produced the 427 Nova in 1969 only. There were around thirty built with only seven or eight that are accounted for today. This is the very first one produced. This 1969 Yenko Nova was a car described by Don Yenko in one of his last interviews as a beast, almost lethal, a car that they should not have produced; as they were skirting the edge of product liability when they built this car. The Nova was not a COPO high performance 427 motor from the factory. It was built with a transplanted 427 motor as Yenko did with the 1967 and 1968 Camaros. Although GM put factory 427s in Camaros and Chevelles, it is known that the GM factory apparently would not put a COPO 427 motor in a Nova. Why not? The most obvious reason would be just as Don Yenko describes himself; using the word lethal, and a matter of liability. The body weight of the Nova was less than that of a Corvette. Stuffing a high performance L72 427 Corvette motor in a car of less body weight certainly had to result in tire-smoking performance. The Yenko Nova featured here has turned elapsed times of 10.90s in the quarter mile. Of course it was with racing slicks, but few other modifications were necessary. This Nova left the factory with a 396/375 HP, Muncie 4-speed, 4.11 12-bolt positraction, and power front disc brakes. It is Garnet Red with standard black vinyl trim. It was destined to be raced so it was ordered very basic, radio-delete, etc, having no comfort options which would have been just added weight to slow the car down. Yenko did their magic with transplanting the L72 427, Stewart Warner column mounted tach, SYC graphics and other high performance modifications. It would be safe to bet that since this was the first 427 Nova, it was built with an extra level of performance in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berr13 Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Thanks for a replies, guys. That pretty much matches what I've been able to discover, but I gotta admit, I'm kind of hoping someone will be able to document that they were available. Otherwise the model is basically a phantom, like AMT's '39 Chevy Wagonrod, and that takes all the fun out of it for me. And I can only imagine how a 427 would propel a '69 Nova--I owned a '64 Nova SS modified with a 350hp 327, and that almost made me soil my shorts more than once. Edited September 8, 2013 by berr13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 COPO cars were all special ordered cars . They were not a trim level or sport package such as RS, SS and Z28 . They were sold for racing in mind. That is why they have no badges or stripes that say COPO . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmk Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I have to wonder, why was the 427 too much for the Nova but fine for the Camaro? They are basically the same car with different body and interior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbox55 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 COPO cars were all special ordered cars . They were not a trim level or sport package such as RS, SS and Z28 . They were sold for racing in mind. That is why they have no badges or stripes that say COPO . Not necessarily. COPO only stands for Central Office Production Order, nothing to do with racing, or at least not directly. Yes, the program was used to produce cars built for racing purposes, but it was also used for fleet orders and even small production runs for regional option packages, which could be as simple as a regional specific color option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbox55 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I have to wonder, why was the 427 too much for the Nova but fine for the Camaro? They are basically the same car with different body and interior. The Camaro is a heavier car, with a much stiffer body than the Nova. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmk Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I just looked it up, it seems that the Nova is about 200-300 lbs lighter. I always thought the Camaro was lighter. You learn something new every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Not necessarily. COPO only stands for Central Office Production Order, nothing to do with racing, or at least not directly. Yes, the program was used to produce cars built for racing purposes, but it was also used for fleet orders and even small production runs for regional option packages, which could be as simple as a regional specific color option. Yes, a true statement. When someone is talking about a COPO Camaro they are not talking about a fleet order. They are talking about a 427 car . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 The one that I helped work on was a cast iron block car with aluminum heads. That was back in the late 80's before they became 6 figure cars. It was forest green with a black interior . What a nice looking car . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalbert Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Yes, a true statement. When someone is talking about a COPO Camaro they are not talking about a fleet order. They are talking about a 427 car . But those too are fleet cars, ordered in a group with a specific set of options not found on the dealer order sheet. There are COPO Camaro's that are not 427s. Nobody remembers them or cares because they are not tire smokers, but they were all ordered under COPO. Heck there are COPO Citations: http://www.hovermotorco.com/2011/02/rare-limited-production-copo-chevrolet.html Edited September 8, 2013 by kalbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berr13 Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) OK, so are we agreed that Chevrolet never produced a 1969 427 Nova for sale to the general public? Edited September 8, 2013 by berr13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 OK, so are we agreed that Chevrolet never produced a 427 Nova for sale to the general public? Factory available engines over the years: 153 cu in (2.51 L) I4 194 cu in (3.18 L) I6 230 cu in (3.8 L) I6 283 cu in (4.64 L) V8 327 cu in (5.36 L) V8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbox55 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Yes. There was a couple of COPO Novas, though, the SS396 and '70 LT 1 Yenko Nova. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalbert Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) OK, so are we agreed that Chevrolet never produced a 1969 427 Nova for sale to the general public? Correct. The 427 cars were dealer built, COPO ordered with even less options than the minimum on the normal order form, and 427 engines fitted by the dealer, which I think was only Yenko, but it seems to me I've heard there was another guy somewhere who did a very few of them. A 396 was offered in the SS trim Nova, however it was not available in lesser trim. An SS396 was built with RPO options on the dealer order form, not COPO. To get a bare bones heat and keys Nova with a 396 it would have been a COPO specifying that specific configuration which was not available on the normal dealer order form. I don't know if any were built this way, but it would be plausible to use the 396 engine decals, bench seat, and plain grille and tail panel included in the Revell COPO Nova kit to depict a car that could have/should have/may have been built. The Wikipedia article sums it up nicely http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Chevy_II_/_Nova#Third_generation_.281968.E2.80.931974.29 Edited September 8, 2013 by kalbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbox55 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 A 396 was offered in the SS trim Nova, however it was not available in lesser trim. An SS396 was built with RPO options on the dealer order form, not COPO. To get a bare bones heat and keys Nova with a 396 it would have been a COPO specifying that specific configuration which was not available on the normal dealer order form. I don't know if any were built this way, There was an SS396 COPO Nova, the 9738 that was done through Fred Gibb Chevrolet. They had the 375 horse 396 with the TH400, which was not available in the regular production Nova SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaleDale Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Based on this Wiki article the Chevy II and Nova are essentially the same body, correct? I see them at the track and they look the same then the PA guy calls them one or the other. The entry list for the NHRA race in Pennsylvania in October is filled for the Stock and Super Stock categories where you would find these cars. The Chevy IIs entered all run 327 motors. One of the great things about drag racing is how it is a rolling museum of muscle cars. Fully functional ones, too. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemodeler Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Dale, Starting in 69 they no longer used the model Chevy II, they were all Novas. Otherwise your statement is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Correct. The 427 cars were dealer built, COPO ordered with even less options than the minimum on the normal order form, and 427 engines fitted by the dealer, which I think was only Yenko, but it seems to me I've heard there was another guy somewhere who did a very few of them. It may have been Nickey Chevrolet in Chicago. They converted Novas and Camaros and some were ordered via the COPO method: http://www.novaresource.org/history.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaleDale Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Mike: Thanks. The Chevy II entries were older than 69. The Novas I found on other entry lists were 69. Now it makes sense. Some guys just say "69 Chevy" on race entries. No class. dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalbert Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 There was an SS396 COPO Nova, the 9738 that was done through Fred Gibb Chevrolet. They had the 375 horse 396 with the TH400, which was not available in the regular production Nova SS. Ahh yea! An excellent example of COPO! "Give me some with the SS396 trim, but I want them equipped with the 375hp motor and a TH400 instead of a 4spd" Based on this Wiki article the Chevy II and Nova are essentially the same body, correct? I see them at the track and they look the same then the PA guy calls them one or the other. From 62-68 Nova was a trim level on a Chevy II. In 69 the Chevy II name was dropped and they were just called Nova. Both my parents had 72 Novas that granddad still referred to as a Chevy II! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Factory available engines over the years: 153 cu in (2.51 L) I4 194 cu in (3.18 L) I6 230 cu in (3.8 L) I6 283 cu in (4.64 L) V8 327 cu in (5.36 L) V8 No 350? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 No 350? Oops, sorry... those engines I posted were first and second generation only. Third generation (1968-74) included those engines listed plus a 350, a 396, and a 402. But no 427. At least not from the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I thought so, lol. That would make the first release of Revell's kit incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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