Question For Mcm...

[jamie]

Two years ago, I was at the NNL East where an undisclosed magazine was taking pictures for their 'zine.

I entered a couple of my NASCARS in the show, and later, I found out that one of the cars I had entered in the show was not photographed because of the decals / sponsors on it.

The photgrapher had told me, "It's a great model, but I can't photograph it because it has alcohol/tobacco sponsors on it." The photographer had told me later through email that they don't want kids to be influencd by the car's sponsors when they look through the magazine. I'm sorry, but Harry Gant didn't make me start using Skoal and I highly doubt that looking at a car with that sponsor would make a child start using it.

Now, I wasn't mad because my car wasn't photographed (I could really care less), I was a little mad beacuse the only reason was the sponsors. I guess my reasonig for not aggreeing with XYZ mag is that I spent many hours building this model to have it not photographed just because of the decals.

My question to Model Car Magazine is this: Do you guys "filter" the cars or have guidelines about sponsors to determine if they are shot for the magazine?

Also, is there a legal issue that I don't know about?

And, have any of you guys run into this as well, or is it just me? I'll still be building the same cars, and still not expecting to get into the mag, although it won't bother me that they won't.

This is not a rant, well maybe a little, but more of an honest question to MCM.....

Jamie

[samm1970]

Was this the same "zine" that doesn't allow you too post pics of certain orange Charger on their site, unless you cover up a certain well known flag?

[dub]

Was this the same "zine" that doesn't allow you too post pics of certain orange Charger on their site, unless you cover up a certain well known flag?

Does the FCC own said " 'zine" ? Man, talk about censorship!!! I guess the publishers want to be just like them when they grow up! It's actions like these that assure me I spend my online time on the best model forum there is.

[CAL]

It is actually law.

The Tabacco Act 1997

Sec. 22

Any direct or indirect sponsorship that is associated in any manner whatsoever with the promotion of tobacco, a tobacco product, a brand of tobacco product or a manufacturer of tobacco products, is prohibited.

Sec. 23

Sports, cultural or social events.

Furthermore, no name, logo, brand element, design, image or slogan, except a colour, that is associated with tobacco, a tobacco product, a brand of tobacco product or a manufacturer of tobacco products, may be associated with a sports, cultural or social event, except in connection with a sponsorship referred to in section 22.

1998, c. 33, s. 23; 2005, c. 29, s. 26.

Sec. 24

advertising

24. All direct or indirect advertising for the promotion of tobacco, a tobacco product, a brand of tobacco product or a manufacturer of tobacco products is prohibited where the advertising

1) is directed at minors;

2) is false or misleading, or is likely to create an erroneous impression about the characteristics, health effects or health hazards of tobacco;

3) directly or indirectly associates the use of tobacco with a particular lifestyle;

4) contains testimonials or endorsements;

5) uses a slogan;

6) contains a text that refers to real or fictional persons, characters or animals;

7) contains anything apart from text, with the exception of an illustration of the package or packaging of a tobacco product occupying not more that 10% of the surface area of the advertising material;

8) is disseminated otherwise than in printed newspapers and magazines that have an adult readership of not less than 85%;

9) is disseminated otherwise than by means of displays visible only from the inside of a tobacco retail outlet;

10) (subparagraph repealed) .

Factual information.

However, advertising that is intended to provide consumers with factual information about a tobacco product, including information about the price or the intrinsic characteristics of a tobacco product and about brands of tobacco products, is permitted to the extent that it does not constitute advertising or a form of advertising prohibited under the first paragraph.

Minister's warning.

Advertising disseminated in printed newspapers or magazines that have an adult readership of not less than 85% must include the warning attributed to the Minister and prescribed by regulation concerning the harmful effects of tobacco on health. The advertising must be forwarded to the Minister on being disseminated.

1998, c. 33, s. 24; 2005, c. 29, s. 27.

Interpretation.

24.1. Indirect advertising for the promotion of tobacco within the meaning of the first paragraph of section 24 includes the use, on a facility, a vehicle, a sign or any other object that is not a tobacco product, of a name, logo, brand element, design, image or slogan that is not directly associated with tobacco, a tobacco product, a brand of tobacco product or a manufacturer of tobacco products but that may reasonably be said to evoke a brand of tobacco product or a manufacturer of tobacco products because of its graphic design, presentation or association with a tobacco display stand or a tobacco retail outlet.

2005, c. 29, s. 28.

In addition, IIRC there are specific additional laws regarding tabacco in magazines.

Far too much liablity for a Modeling Mag to publish pics of smokes.

[jamie]

Interesting...... if you don't mind me asking, where did you get this info from? I'm not disagreeing with it at all cause it sounds legit, I was just curious... If XYZ Mag had said that from the get-go, I would have totally been fine with that. Although I do remember a Formula One car printed in the mag one time within the last year with Marlboro sponsors on it... but hey, it's not my place to say anything..

Sam... I'm not sure if it's the same one, but I could see that happening....

I was just curious about the whole situation and was wondering of anyone else ran into the same situation, that's all....

Thanks for replying guys!

[Harry P.]

Cal's post sure looks legit to me.

That other rule about not showing the Confederate flag on a certain orange Charger named after a certain famous Civil War general, however, is an editorial decision, not a legal one.

[Brendan]

A few years ago Revell released a couple of their drag cars (I believe) with alcohol decals. On the box, it said in very small print that this item could not be purchased by anyone under 21. I was working in a hobby store at the time. We thought this was absolutely hilarious. We also could not sell after market decals with alcohol or tobacco on them unless the person was of age or had their parents with them. We actually had notices sent to us by the government stating all the penalties that could happen. Everyone commented that this was a hobby store, not a liquor and tobacco store. I think some of this stuff gets a little ridiculous.

[Jairus]

And YET it's ok to access porno from a PUBLIC library computer without any filters in place! Amazing

[CAL]

It's actually a Canada Act citation, which virtually the same all over the world, now. however, is used in internation trade agreements with the US. US laws are therefore similar, but much more difficult to cite specifically, but is banned in every form of media but magazines, but again with global marketing it doesn't make sense to do it.

Since most mags are published for both markets, the import of US mags to Canada must abide by the The Tobacco Act.

Moreover there are several states with much stronger legislation in reguards to tabacco ads and sponsorships.

Hollywood doesn't like actors to smoke in the movies anymore either for similar reasons.

[Harry P.]

And YET it's ok to access porno from a PUBLIC library computer without any filters in place! Amazing

Not that porn is good for kids, but would you rather have the alternative: public libraries that can censor the internet?

Isn't that what they do in totalitarian countries like China and North Korea?

I'll take my chances with an uncensored internet.

[Modelmartin]

And YET it's ok to access porno from a PUBLIC library computer without any filters in place! Amazing

Come on Jairus! Get it online from home like everybody else!

Back to the subject - is a picture of a car with alcohol or tobacco sponsors on it the same as an advertisement under these laws? These aren't advertisements. I know the sponsorships are for the purpose of getting the name in the media( TV coverage, print media, etc). These are model cars. They are a historical depiction of something. Is the other magazine being too zealous? Inquiring minds..........

I believe there were issues about German WWII models not being able to have swastikas on the decal sheets or boxart for the German market where the Swastika is outlawed. I can understand that.

[Andy Wyatt]

I just want to know the hours at Jairus' library.

[Enzoenvy1]

That is so hypocritical and ironic if you ask me. Well no-one did but I will say this. Tobacco and Liquor industries account for two of the largest industries in our wonderful country. Alcohol will never go away as it makes too much money, and tobacco will never go away even if it costs $14 a pack. People want what they want. To advertise these things is only part of our American culture. What makes it most funny is that they are losing money trying to not "promote" these vices to people. Until recently, I never noticed the removal of these items from advertising, let alone motorsports. But when I tried to buy a Mrlboro livery from an online store I was told I couldn't. Good thing I already have others to spare. Our laws are pretty messed up, I agree. I like how advertising alcohol and tobacco is illegal on models, but you can advertise models of prostitution on the vegas strip on billboards and trucks that drive up and down the Strip. The end is near my friends, lol. (well, it could be?!)

[Jairus]

Not that porn is good for kids, but would you rather have the alternative: public libraries that can censor the internet?

Isn't that what they do in totalitarian countries like China and North Korea?

I'll take my chances with an uncensored internet.

To answer your question Harry.... yes!

I believe in moderation and if a computer in the public library is not filtered, then children should not be allowed in the building. I filter my computer and do not allow my children to access the Internet in private, period dot! The only computer access in my house is found in public spaces! So how can you liken that type of parental control to life in totalitarian countries like China and North Korea? It frankly amazes me how some people, in such haste to make a point, jump to drastic conclusions.

Harry, my prodigies are nearly all adults now. All three exited High School with 4.0 grades! The oldest is married and a supervisor at a local Costco. The second is a Junior at George Fox University and has volunteered and paid his own way to New Orleans TWICE, working to rebuild private housing there in the “Katrina†destroyed 5th Ward. My youngest is still a junior in High School and to each one of them I am equally PROUD! No drugs, no pregnancies, and a deep respect for God and Country!

So Harry, please do not disrespect my parental opinions by comparing my ideas and thoughts to those of a totalitarian dictator. Just because we both breathe does not mean we are alike.

[samm1970]

Interesting...... if you don't mind me asking, where did you get this info from? I'm not disagreeing with it at all cause it sounds legit, I was just curious... If XYZ Mag had said that from the get-go, I would have totally been fine with that. Although I do remember a Formula One car printed in the mag one time within the last year with Marlboro sponsors on it... but hey, it's not my place to say anything..

Sam... I'm not sure if it's the same one, but I could see that happening....

I was just curious about the whole situation and was wondering of anyone else ran into the same situation, that's all....

Thanks for replying guys!

I think this is The Formula One racer that you are referring too.There's a photo of a contest build of this race car in the the April 2007 issue of the previously mentioned "zine".It's on page 43 bottom left hand corner.

[Modelmartin]

This thread is morphing! Freedom and democracy are very messy things which some people find disconcerting. I don't think Harry was saying Jairus is a totalitarian dictater. Only his kids can say whether or not that is true! He was just saying that he doesn't want access to the internet controlled by the government. I can agree with that.

Enzoenvy makes a point about what is advertised and violence is marketed pretty heavily everywhere which I find disconcerting. Greed, avarice and envy are used to market products everywhere we turn. Unfortunately, those things are not focused on a single type of product that can be regulated. Or not! We have drug companies pushing drugs on television and in magazines for profit and lots of it! That is wrong and immoral.

Another point is the silliness of all of this hoopla about kids looking at porn. OK , let's have a show of hands of all of us who at a young age sneaked looks at Dad's, big brother's, funny uncle's, neighbors, etc. girly mags! The only thing warped about us is our fetish for model cars! People are not "protecting" their kids. They are sheltering them and worrying more about the discomfort of talking about sex with their children. Keeping them ignorant doesn't do them any good.

Me shut up now.

[CAL]

I think this is The Formula One racer that you are referring too.There's a photo of a contest build of this race car in the the April 2007 issue of the previously mentioned "zine".It's on page 43 bottom left hand corner.

That is not a a F1, some kind of LMP, ALMP, or DP car, looks like.

The colors and layout are allowed as long as it doesn't spell out Marlboro anywhere.

[Guest roadkill2525]

I was going through my "other mag" Contest Cars 07 and I came accross M. Schumacher's 2001 car on pg.21. It clearly shows Marlbaro. I also notice that they don't cover the Winston or Busch decals on the NASCAR cars.

Edited November 21, 2007 by roadkill2525

[samm1970]

That is not a a F1, some kind of LMP, ALMP, or DP car, looks like.

The colors and layout are allowed as long as it doesn't spell out Marlboro anywhere.

The PlayBoy Bunny does'nt spell out Playboy but you associate that image w/ PlayBoy, the same holds true for Marlboro. Whether the word Marlboro is removed or not that red and white image is clearly recgnizable and associated w/ Marlboro.It's called brand recognition.

Marketers engaged in branding seek to develop or align the expectations behind the brand experience, creating the impression that a brand associated with a product or service has certain qualities or characteristics that make it special or unique. A brand image may be developed by attributing a "personality" to or associating an "image" with a product or service, whereby the personality or image is "branded" into the consciousness of consumers. A brand is therefore one of the most valuable elements in an advertising theme. The art of creating and maintaining a brand is called brand management.

A brand which is widely known in the marketplace acquires brand recognition. When brand recognition builds up to a point where a brand enjoys a critical mass of positive sentiment in the marketplace, it is said to have achieved brand franchise. One goal in brand recognition is the identification of a brand without the name of the company present

If you removed the words Marlboro from the above image it is still recognizable and associated w/ the brand it is intended too represent.

[dub]

I was going through my "other mag" Contest Cars 07 and I came accross M. Schumacher's 2001 car on pg.21. It clearly shows Marlbaro. I also notice that they don't cover the Winston or Busch decals on the NASCAR cars.

The reason is that the Contest Annual is not available to minors via newsstand, bookstore, etc. It must be ordered by mail to get it. The legislature doesn't apply here because a minor must have parental consent to mail order anything. The law is to insure minors don't get corrupted by tobacco companies directing advertising at kids. That is also why you don't see Joe Camel anymore. Why do you think I even tried that brand when I was 18 and started smoking? RJ Reynolds got a lot of my money in the last 14 years, I only hope there will be a market for the tobacco merchandise I've collected to get some of it back now that I stopped throwing it away to them.

[Brendan]

That is not a a F1, some kind of LMP, ALMP, or DP car, looks like.

The colors and layout are allowed as long as it doesn't spell out Marlboro anywhere.

The car is a Ferrari 333SP Longtail Le Mans '98 LMP1.

[Gregg]

Well, I guess I should say something.

I have no "filters" or any restrictions on what I will run.

I guess that sums it up for me :-)

If it's a great model, it's a great model, right?

Now, where's my beer.....

Two years ago, I was at the NNL East where an undisclosed magazine was taking pictures for their 'zine.

I entered a couple of my NASCARS in the show, and later, I found out that one of the cars I had entered in the show was not photographed because of the decals / sponsors on it.

The photgrapher had told me, "It's a great model, but I can't photograph it because it has alcohol/tobacco sponsors on it." The photographer had told me later through email that they don't want kids to be influencd by the car's sponsors when they look through the magazine. I'm sorry, but Harry Gant didn't make me start using Skoal and I highly doubt that looking at a car with that sponsor would make a child start using it.

Now, I wasn't mad because my car wasn't photographed (I could really care less), I was a little mad beacuse the only reason was the sponsors. I guess my reasonig for not aggreeing with XYZ mag is that I spent many hours building this model to have it not photographed just because of the decals.

My question to Model Car Magazine is this: Do you guys "filter" the cars or have guidelines about sponsors to determine if they are shot for the magazine?

Also, is there a legal issue that I don't know about?

And, have any of you guys run into this as well, or is it just me? I'll still be building the same cars, and still not expecting to get into the mag, although it won't bother me that they won't.

This is not a rant, well maybe a little, but more of an honest question to MCM.....

Jamie

[Modelmartin]

Now, where's my beer.....

In your hand!

[Harry P.]

To answer your question Harry.... yes!

I believe in moderation and if a computer in the public library is not filtered, then children should not be allowed in the building. I filter my computer and do not allow my children to access the Internet in private, period dot! The only computer access in my house is found in public spaces! So how can you liken that type of parental control to life in totalitarian countries like China and North Korea? It frankly amazes me how some people, in such haste to make a point, jump to drastic conclusions.

So Harry, please do not disrespect my parental opinions by comparing my ideas and thoughts to those of a totalitarian dictator. Just because we both breathe does not mean we are alike.

You're responding to something I didn't say!!!

I said that censorship in PUBLIC LIBRARIES is akin to what they do in China and North Korea. I never said anything about parental control, yours or anyone elses! In fact, I agree with you that parents have a responsibility to watch what their kids are getting in to. But I wasn't talking about parental control...I was commenting on GOVERNMENTAL control. BIG difference!

[jamie]

Well, I guess I should say something.

I have no "filters" or any restrictions on what I will run.

I guess that sums it up for me :-)

If it's a great model, it's a great model, right?

Now, where's my beer.....

Amen brother.....amen.......

Yeah, the pic of that car wasn't the right one, it was in the contest mag. If you put it in the contest mag, then put it in the regular version. Or keep it consistent and don't put it in the contest one either...

BTW Gregg, I'll some cars at the NNL East, if you're going to be there. Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge......

I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers with htis post!!!