1/16 Willys Pro Mod

[LarryT]

At present the introduction of this build is going to have a slow start since I'm still purchasing important components for the chassis example need the front strut and coil assemble. So this build will start with some basics and what I do have in parts beginning with the name of this build "It's About Time" and here is the first image for that theme. The next images are of the body by Flashpoint Motorsports...note the body has been thinned and somewhat prepped with primer coat applied...more about the prep at a later time

Edited March 5, 2014 by LarryT

[blackbeard]

great start keep the updates coming

[LarryT]

Future update will begin with the construction of a chassis assembly jig when all the parts are purchased (some parts I want are brass for durability and long ware), but most of the fixture will be styrene sheet and wood. The intended function of this jig is keep the chassis square, in alignment, and flat. It is not intended for accurate measurement though it can hold measured setting once setup...just not intended to have scales or such means of measure fixed as part of the fixture itself. It will be a very simple design just to square up and give support to bulkheads while they are being secured. L3

[am73grand]

Looking forward to seeing your jig. Plese show us how you build it.

[jasoncamaro]

Cant wait to see this

[Mooneyzs]

Larry... Great start and looking forward to seeing your jig as well this build come together.

[LarryT]

Thanks to you all, and the jig will be build in this forum. I have the skills for this project though never before attempted this large of model construction see only samples of two cars I actually took photos of. I was drawn to this forum because of two specific members and their project build. Mooneyzs, and Jonn Teresi among a few others who's works are inspiring and you guys made my mouth water and drove my motivation strait off the charts for me...so I'm here...perhaps a bit early since my most serious parts I have yet to buy. I must get some rest and will be online later today. L3

Edited March 8, 2014 by LarryT

[bobthehobbyguy]

What scale are the models you showed.

[LarryT]

Bob, the scale of these model are 1/25 Revell on the Willys, and Goodguys 1/25 on the 3 window coupe. The Willys was my first play with bending plastic rod to see if I could make a tubular chassis...using a heat gun and or normal pressure bends that would over shot the angle desired until I had the angle I wanted.

For this build I must explain some thoughts to hopefully have suggestions...All previous work now aside has never been done step by step online, and I don't want my audience to take interest then sit playing jacks and ball till I post another update since I don't build fast.

Reasons this happens: (1) I don't have a fixed camera setup with a large camera (Canon 5DM11, Zeiss 90mm lens and closeup adaptors), also I use computer software to customize the depth of field where I want it if I take that time to do the custom work since this is image stacking I must shot up to 50 images in extreme close up, work, and just don't do things fast to avoid mistakes...which means start it over again; Just like my build theme "It's All About Time".

So I'm asking for suggestions how to build in my time slot, yet get updates to you the audience within a reasonable amount of time.

2) I want to make the build represent a qualified representation of a car that would in the real world be a for real Pro Mod technically speaking, and that means I must not be thin skinned for harsh critique, but I trust in the rules of this forum to keep it civilized...I have never built a drag race track car...I have worked for when a very young person back in the late 50's early 60's C-T Automotive then in either Van Nuys or North Hollywood, Wiend in Glendale area Eagle Rock location, various plants that made manifolds or custom race car parts or did exclusive drag race car engine stuff like last job Valley Head

Service in Conoga Park area. I did machine shop and machinist work so understand some aspects and what is required in technical language of my day, but I did build my own cars that were mostly Off Road sand or open desert use for dune climb and 300 foot sand drags. (My cars were not winners of awards and lost most races...unless you tried to beat my car on the street scene. That was then and I no longer participate in bench racing...but I do know how to make a bad ass engine that stands up to the winds...for short drag race not quarter mile stuff. so my cams were short duration, big lift and over carbureted, or fuel injected for hill climbing (used chevy fi system) that way I kept in a class suited to my use which was "Competition Modified" class a street legal car used in sand drags. Toyota Land Cruiser with small block chevy installed myself with a kit from an off road speed house.

For the initial start when ready to make that move having all the parts required...I will do the steps in fairly big steps thru most of the non tech no brainer stuff for example soon I will have all the parts to assemble the rear end and paint it...short of demonstrating how I obtain my width measurement to assure the tires and wheels fit under the body...it should a quick assembly and paint ready to go so quick update. Now assembly of plumbing or detail can be a good thing to take some smaller steps with...otherwise big should be good opinions welcomed.

Chassis never built one in my life...good example of that is the 1/25 thu trying to see if I can bind rod it does show how little I know about tubular chassis construction...hey I was a kit builder until I came to this forum and looked at builds from Mooneyzs (fc), Evilcustoms, Clay Kemp, John Teresi that did I just could not put this off and have to roll up my sleeves and give this a try. L3

[MitchP]

Larry: I am not a scratch builder myself, but have observed folks like Tyrone for one create incredible projects. Also, if I read it right, you've had machine shop experience at Weiand manifolds and superchargers? Here is a link to one of the most incredible hand-built and tooled pro mod I've ever seen. The links provided by the thread started by HAKKFAN will hopefully give you an idea of some techniques the builder used.

I look forward to your progress based on the pics of your prior builds. My breakout step is coming this spring when I'll be building a Ross Gibson Sonny Leonard resin pro mod big block and stuffing it into a Revell '57 Chevy Soff Seal 1:25. I'll be using Pro Tech's gallery pages to correctly fashion the barrel valve, distribution blocks and braided/rubber fuel line plumbing.

[LarryT]

Mitch, thank you very much for that information, and I don't see a link to follow to the pro mod build. Yes I was working the machine shop for Phil Weiand we did just about everything...even had one of the first ever ir cross ram quad webber sidedraft carb setups of sbc engine...it was cast in magnesium and Fumio had to smooth out the rough casting inside the ports (not mirror...just no rough casting surface to cause turbulence in air flow) it was a street version setup...The blower today are much improved over what I knew then...infact the whole thing has improved overall...when I was doing tech work at Chevy dealership in Waco I saw a more recent block, or was it head??? for a sbc engine, and either the lifter gallery. or the rocker arms were staggered???? I didn't get a chance to study the heads, and was curious if they had improved the port flow by lifting the port angle (hi-port design) it would be obvious since the intake ports would get more into the rocker arm gallery than a normal head. that would give a reason to offset the rocker arm in a similar to bbc staggered rocker arm features. That hi lift I mentioned was first applied to a formula one engine and produced more than 700 hp from a sbc normally aspired engine. I look forward to seeing your construction on the 57 chevy I'm sure I will return to building the 1/25 scale, but for now I must do this scale as time is a factor...just not a lot of it these days. L3

[Quick GMC]

This is most likely the Pro Mod he is talking about

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78118

[LarryT]

Mitch, and Cameron, thank you for the links and there are so many really fine builders on this forum it does make my feel the tension to get this right, which I know my capabilities and feel the ability is there, but presentation is the weakness...I have not built step by step online and must find some way to have my photographic equipment ready on notice complete with lighting. The process I understand but how to choreographer this ballet so no one has to wait till the next freeze thaw happens to see progress that I'm just not use too. All that said I will do my best and try to keep everyone happy with not too slow, and know it won't be too fast...lol

There are questions that have come up: I saw on this forum the simply stated rules for PM class and in those rules were no screw type superchargers allowed??? If this is true I must get another blower and manifold, for I have the FPM 526 hemi with PSI blower.

Just to be sure I need to find out if supercharged is permitted nitrous assist...seems to me I have seen other builds with nitrous on supercharged engine setup. Just getting tired and need to nap before work tonight. L3

Edited March 10, 2014 by LarryT

[MitchP]

Hey Larry, Cameron: Sorry, I'm a bit absent minded when it comes to topics dear to my heart LOL. I'm a big 70-80's big hair rock band fan also and my wife, although a die-hard Heart fan, avoids talking to me because I seem to have a black-hole mind. I can go on for hours about the guitars and rigs Eddie Van Halen, Yngvie Malmsteen, or the late Randy Rhoads used ad naseum, but will forget what I had for lunch yesterday!

I got so psyched sharing the links with you I forgot to include them. This Camaro I'm linking to could be built by the same guy for the way they mirror each other in detail and use of metal. http://www.automotiveforums.com/t1056212-complete_blackbeard_s_revenge_70_5_camaro_pro_mod.html I hope you all enjoy. I think this might have been 1:25 scale, although I'm not sure. My pain meds for my back make it so I can only do basic kit builds, although I do buy distributors, mags, and other resin items for ignition and I really love use of braided steel (maybe too much) and Pro Tech/RB Motion fittings for either carb'd or blown applications. I just paint them myself to save a few dollars.

BTW, I also picked up a resin Kobelco blower, 3 hole modern P/M hat & cog to put on a blown kit instead of the included pieces. I don't know which kit yet, but I do have a Revell '55 Pro Sportsman BBC setup for twin carbs and with a little searching, I bet I could find a Hemi unassembled from a blower kit for a reasonable price. Never hurts to have an NOS BBC setup in the parts bin!

[LarryT]

Mitch, black beards revenge is 1/16 scale construction by Clay Kemp and I followed that build and put on a disk (lost when I moved) like so much of my equipment...hate moving. There are a few you should check out like XKE Jag pro mod cut up a couple of smaller scale jags to make a to scale Pro Mod car and it came out very cool, and he even weathered the chassis construction...by John Teresi, and there are others who do exceptional work sometimes hard to put that kind of detail into 1/25 scale. Perhaps someone can provide the answer to a question...I have tried to look up cars on this forum...knowing the name of the builder and even the car, but unable to get a match on the forum search???? How do you use this search engine to find builds by a member on our forum???? L3

Edited March 11, 2014 by LarryT

[brett]

Larry, the search engine is almost legendary in its failings on this site, but if thats the worst problem it has we're pretty well off. Make sure when using the search function at the top, you use the drop down menu from this topic, to forum before clicking search. If you go to a members profile you can search by all topics started by this member etc etc

[blackbeard]

clay kemp's black beards revenge is 1/25

[MitchP]

Larry: No disrepect, but I gotta go with Henry on this one. I could almost swear (sorry, shouldn't swear on heaven or earth) that it's a 1:25 which is what made it so crazy. When I get some time, I'll read the lengthy links.

[LarryT]

Ha all this time I thought the revenge was a 1/16 scale car, and that would make it an outstanding build...I will have to find and re-read this build again...Mitch sorry for that miss information...I personally thought it was a 1/16 build LOL

Brett thank you for the search engine directions and will work on it later. New Zealand wow what a beautiful land you live on. L3

Edited March 11, 2014 by LarryT

[comp1839]

larry, screw blowers are legal pro mod. just not in NHRA pro mod and you may find that rule changing in the near future. there is more than one sanctioning body for pro mods. if you are really interested in building an "accurate" car. find the rules that better suit your build and use those. of course, if accuracy isn't what you are really trying for. have fun with what ever you decide to build.

[LarryT]

Dave I prefer having fun with the build, and will make an effort to build the chassis to the rules as that would seem correct to both...but for this build it will have the PSI blower and Nitrous Oxide which will take it out of NHRA class. If I understand this correctly. L3

[comp1839]

you are correct. nitrous is not legal on a blown car in the NHRA. when you say PSI blower. i am going to assume you are referring to the screw blower as PSI makes both a screw blower and a roots blower. you may want to check out the rules for the ADRL pro extreme class. the ADRL also runs a pro mod class but, it is the exact same rules as the NHRA. there are also alot of outlaw pro mod series running. may want to check them out.

[MitchP]

Larry & Dave:

I can't get enough of this thread and similar ones. I've got quite a few DVDs I might have told Dave about - Powerhouse Orlando Street Car October events (until the DVD quality went downhill) and some from Hillbilly Productions showing 1/8 mile stuff. Although Funny Car builds and P/S are great, P/Ms are where it's at for me. Rock on!

[LarryT]

By PSI is meant the screw type blower, I have the FPM 526 engine kit, but having to spend time squaring up the block, heads and manifold...nothing fits really well. I may seek another engine and switch the blower and manifold onto another long block engine...that is still a WIP search. I have some sheet metal coming for the jig fixture and when a few more parts are together I can begin to construct the jig online. My interest is Nitrous and blown combination which I'm not sure it Nitrous works on alcohol and gasoline or just gas. I will have to find the rules for ADRL and Outlaw Pro Mod as this will help me refine how to build this car to my taste. Thanks for all the info Dave. Mitch I too like the Pro Mod cars the moment I saw someone say they run Nitrous on a supercharged car...actually I like the idea in the real world to run Nitrous plumbed to directed the 750 PSI nozzle spray onto the intake turbo blades and spin a turbocharger into an almost instant boost mode...that way they could run a large turbo with little to no lag yet have much needed volume of fuel air boost. Need a big waste gate to control the instant blow. Larry

[LarryT]

Dave, I will build this car to ADRL (extreme pro mod...PX) rules. Now for a "say what" questions, but first understand my last participation to anything called drag race had no Nitrous (still used on propeller planes), roots blowers were two size...big and small. In the sand boxes I played in the big boys monster cars just taking interest would bring out these bad A's cars that when they pulled up next to your car...would make your car topple over on it's side if they punched the throttle. Yep I was one of those cry babies who couldn't afford to compete against that kind of money power. Mickey Thompson's fuel system alone, probably cost more than my cars building cost. So I don't know is nitrous used in gasoline only class?

I did want to mention the first posted image showing the cheetah with theme logo...that is my start of the paint foundation but modified on the car body will have an appearance more like this. (must image how it will be stretched from the front of the hood till the clock wraps around behind the side window. I have not developed Photoshop skills to the level of putting this design on the car body...perhaps someday. Oh the cars upper body i.e hood to upper fender edges is alclad chrome based with clear red top coat, and lower edges of fender to follow around the clock is a contrast color (still a wip) this will also carry across the front of the car below the cheetah face location. L3

Edited March 16, 2014 by LarryT