Don Grotheer 1970 Cuda

[jjsipes]

What would be the correct colors for this car? I have seen pictures from A blue that looks close to Corporate Blue to B5 Blue? I've seen anywhere from Red to Orange as well. Any idea guys?

Edited June 30, 2014 by jjsipes

[Speedfreak]

Jason, it looks like two completely different sets of colors to me. The top one looks like Moulin Rouge/Black/white while the bottom one looks like some kind of blue with an orange/red color and white. In fact after looking at the photographs it looks like two completely different cars (at least the bodies). Probably different 'Cuda years, '70 and '71? Someone will know for sure on the years.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Speedfreak

[jwrass]

Jason, I have not seen pictures or heard D.Gs name in a long time, really one of the pioneers of the Pro Stock Class. From where I sit the side view looks black (It may be the photo as I doubt it's black) The front view is definitely Red, White & Blue more our less a patriotic theme. The Red and White look to be basic traditional colors but the blue looks like it's metallic (again it may be the picture) Most of those cars were painted by Custom Paint Shops back in the day so it's a BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH shoot, I doubt factory colors were used. I think he was going for a patriotic theme so I think traditional colors of the flag would be a safe bet.

[Rob Hall]

First car is a '70, 2nd is a '71. Different hood scoops also--1st looks like one of the trapazoidal Hemi scoops like in the Revell '68 Charger and Hemi Dart kits.

I wonder what those wheels are on the '70? Neat squared spokes..

Edited June 30, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Brett Barrow]

Car was obviously built from a body-in-white. I doubt he'd be under any obligation to use factory colors.

Almost looks like Sox & Martin colors in a different pattern... Wonder if they helped prepare Grotheer's cars?

Edited June 30, 2014 by Brett Barrow

[jwrass]

Good eye Gene With the grilles!!!! I didn't even notice that, I had tunnel vision on the paint. Pretty sure the top picture is a 1970 and the bottom a later year?

Gezzz I get a BLAH BLAH with a game that's played in a Casino every day. I hope I don't get detention!!!

[jwrass]

Jermaine,Jackie,Tito,Marlon,Michael Great photo's!!! The blue appears to have metallic in it, Many of those cars had Pearl top coats and would enhance some colors more than others. I would look at color chips and go with your eyes and gut. If it's not 100% correct I don't feel it's a big deal! The car would be a Awesome build regardless!

[jjsipes]

Brett, I have seen those photos as well, thanks for posting them. I did forget to mention one picture I posted was of a '70 and the other a '71 Cuda, my bad.

As far as Sox colors and getting help from them, Grotheer was involved in the Clinics as wel from what I have read (I wasn't around back then as I was born in '77). I thought the Sox's cars was more red then what I have seen on the Grotheer cars? The Blue does look similar to Ronnie Sox's roof color.

Then if you take in consideration the diecast that was done I believe by SuperCar Collectibles, which claim that the try to make them as accurate as possible, it does appear to be more Orange then red.

https://www.performance-years.com/Product/1970_Plymouth_Cuda_Pro_Stock_Don_Grotheer_2075.shtml

If you look at some of his late 60's cars they look like a different blue as well. I don't if he would keep them close color wise into the 70's or not.

Then I found this shot of what appears to be a 1971 Roadrunner that he ran as well.

Edited July 1, 2014 by jjsipes

[Ju Ju]

I wonder what those wheels are on the '70? Neat squared spokes..

The wheels on the '70 'Cuda are Fenton Shark mags.

[1972coronet]

Just a shot in the dark here :

1970 : Looks like TX9 Black , FE5 Rallye Red , and EW1 White . Apparently , its black portions were repainted in what appears to be EB7 Blue .

1971 : Same as the 1970 , but with what appears to be EB7 Blue (maybe even TB3 Blue ? )replacing the TX9 Black .

The wheels on the 1970 appear to be Rader [sp?] wheels (in the first photo of the '70) , with the 2nd car (at last labelled as Pro Stock) having a different set of Fenton wheels : "Gyro" .

That last photo is of Grotheer's 1971 B/Modified Production Road Runner . Its colours appear to be : GW3 White , FE5 Red , and GB5 Blue .

** Note Regarding Paint Codes : The first letter equates the year of the colour ; "T" = 1962 ; "E" = 1969 ; "F" = 1970 ; and , "G" = 1971 .**

[jwrass]

On the Road Runner,

If you look at the sheen where the sail panel and rear side glass meet, It looks like a silver white or white pearl was top coated over the blue, I can see hints of this elsewhere on the blue.

Based on the era that most likely was painted at a Custom Shop, The lettering speaks volumes of that, Engine Turned Gold Leaf, Black outline, heavy drop shadow at the bottom with white airbrushed highlights, free style script. No stickers or wraps there! Raw talent in skilled hands ( except the contingencies )

Edited June 30, 2014 by jwrass

[Speedfreak]

Thanks 'Rass' I still say the top/first photo is Moulin Rouge (pink) Black and white. The reason I say this is because his jacket has 'red/orange' cuffs and a stripe that matches running up the front. That color does 'not' match the color on the car. If it were the photo being off that distinction could not be made. It could be an early version, (maybe the first?) of the car. All the other shots (excepting the Road Runner) show red/orange, white and blue.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Speedfreak

[unclescott58]

Brett, I have seen those photos as well, thanks for posting them. I did forget to mention one picture I posted was of a '70 and the other a '71 Cuda, my bad.

As far as Sox colors and getting help from them, Grotheer was involved in the Clinics as wel from what I have read (I wasn't around back then as I was born in '77). I thought the Sox's cars was more red then what I have seen on the Grotheer cars? The Blue does look similar to Ronnie Sox's roof color.

Then if you take in consideration the diecast that was done I believe by SuperCar Collectibles, which claim that the try to make them as accurate as possible, it does appear to be more Orange then red.

https://www.performance-years.com/Product/1970_Plymouth_Cuda_Pro_Stock_Don_Grotheer_2075.shtml

If you look at some of his late 60's cars they look like a different blue as well. I don't if he would keep them close color wise into the 70's or not.

Then I found this shot of what appears to be a 1970 Roadrunner that he ran as well.

The top car is a 1969 Roadrunner. The next car directly above is not a 1970 Roadrunner, but a 1971 Roadrunner.

Scott

Edited July 1, 2014 by unclescott58

[jjsipes]

Just found this picture on the Facebook group called "Nostalgia Pro Stock". It was posted by member Tom Schlitz from the 1970 SummerNationals. Colors look very bright to me. It's a great pic to me. I'm thinking close colors to be B5 Blue, Hemi Orange and white.

Edited July 2, 2014 by jjsipes

[jwrass]

I remember that Moulin Rouge, that was one funky color. I agree with Gene I think the top car has that color. It certainly isn't red or orange

[jjsipes]

I just noticed in the last picture there are no wheel lips around the wheel openings on the rear quarters or front fenders. Could they both be trimmed out for larger tires?

[jwrass]

YIKES, Jason that is a great picture, I think you are spot on with the colors!!!!

[Brett Barrow]

Were fluorescents around back then? Fluorescent red can look all kinds of different shades of orange or red in pictures.

[jwrass]

I think Jason is spot on with the colors. Their were fluorescents on race cars but not on production cars. The fluorescents are not lightfast and fade easily.That would be one heck of a recall

[Speedfreak]

I remember that Moulin Rouge, that was one funky color. I agree with Gene I think the top car has that color. It certainly isn't red or orange

The top car 'is' Moulin Rouge/black/white. More commonly known as 'Panther Pink' which is what Dodge called it. There's not a spec of Blue, or , orange/red on that top cars paint job, those colors appear on his jacket though. Maybe it's the 'mystery' Don Grotheer color scheme that only appeared on the car for a very brief period.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Speedfreak

[gtx6970]

1st one is/was dark blue, red and white. I would almost guarentee it

Good friend of mine knows Don well ( actually owns one of his old cars )

I will contact him to confirm 100%

[Speedfreak]

How about just looking at the photo and trusting your eyes? Does the (red/orange) in the second photo look like the same color (Moulin Rouge) that's on the first car? No! I mean Seriously, wow. But, it does look like (red/orange in second photo) the same color that's on his jacket, that's because it is! Anyone that says those colors are the same is color blind, or , has some other issues regarding this thread.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Speedfreak

[jwrass]

Top Car First photo 1970 CUDA. Plymouth Moulin Rouge code# M-3. PPG# 2260

[jjsipes]

Here's a little something I've been messing around with. It's not perfect but it will do for me. I got hold of the new Sox and Martin Cuda kit and went to town taping and painting. I use Testors Lacquer Hemi Orange and White and used Scale Finishes 1970 Dodge B5 Bright Blue. This is all paint, no decals. Pictures aren't the best just some quick ones I took.

[ChrisPflug]

How about just looking at the photo and trusting your eyes? Does the (red/orange) in the second photo look like the same color (Moulin Rouge) that's on the first car? No! I mean Seriously, wow. But, it does look like (red/orange in second photo) the same color that's on his jacket, that's because it is! Anyone that says those colors are the same is color blind, or , has some other issues regarding this thread.

Sure then you can have a model that matches the look of a 45 year old color photo but probably isn't even close to the original car

Seriously- the first photo looks quite a bit more faded than the second and it seems rather far fetched that a well known driver would switch colors on a "signature" paint scheme for part of a season

Or that the main color chosen would be one probably not yet released by the factory- although stock appearing these cars were built from the ground up as race cars- they were never assembled street cars- Chrysler supplied the factory racers with bodies-in-white and parts- not a complete vehicle. The Panther Pink color wasn't released until late in the model year (and proved unpopular enough not to be brought back for '71) so seems an unlikely choice for a custom paint job

Just using common sense rather than just the eyes

If everyone "just looked and trusted their eyes" Vegas magicians would rule the world

Edited July 17, 2014 by ChrisPflug