Old School Rod Question

[Rick Schmidt]

I plan on building a 29 roadster pickup I've noticed in some pics of rods the front axle just seems to be on the frame. Am I seeing right It actually makes sense to me if that is true because it would have been a simple way to drop the nose without z ing the front rails

[62rebel]

dropping a straight axle was accomplished in stages, depending on how low you wanted to go, and what you could afford.

some companies were selling dropped axles in the old days but they weren't cheap!

what most guys had to do was drop them themselves, which meant heating the axle to a certain temperature, bending it to the new configuration, and clamping it there until it cooled. this was not a foolproof job, many axles were ruined by this method.

the main spring leaf could be rearched or the spring "eyes" reversed by a spring shop. this was commonly done.

the fastest, cheapest way to get the front axle low was to put the whole assembly on a "suicide" perch in front of the front crossmember. ("suicide" because if it broke while you were driving.....)

IIRC, Bell Speed equipment sold the first commercially successful dropped axles and they had them in several sizes of drop.

the axle itself couldn't rest directly on the frame; without a spring it would bend, or more likely, break from impacts.

Allards used Ford transverse axles and springs but cut the axle in two and mounted it solidly to the frame at the inner ends. coupled with a "solid" spring, these cars had EVIL handling characteristics....

the AMT 27 t kit had a hot rod frame in it with a Bell dropped axle on a suicide perch.

perhaps the recent Revell 40 fords have dropped axles?

[Jairus]

Curt answered this question pretty well in a real 1:1 sense.

Now I will try to suggest something in the model car world that might help.

Sense we are discussing plastic instead of steel replicated in a twenty-five to one scale.... some completed models might LOOK like the frame is actually sitting on the front axle. In reality and in a 1:1 scale the suspension travel has been reduced to very small proportions.

2 inches of real suspension travel is reduced in 1/25th scale to roughly 1/16th of an inch. About as low as you should go!

A truly lowered car would not only lower the physical shape but reduce actual suspension travel. This is why "Z"ing the frame was such a good idea in reality as it preserved as much suspension travel as possible so as to make the actual driving of the car a pleasurable experience. A compacted spine is not a happy thing to live with!

Some suggestions for lowering a Revell 1932 Roadster kit:

1. Slice off the top half of the transverse leaf spring in the front.

2. Seek out a different front axle with a deeper drop... and then slice off the top half of the transverse leaf spring in the front.

(The front axle of the Tom Daniel Pie Wagon for instance)

3. "Z" cut the frame somewhere between the front axle cross member and the firewall.

Suicide front ends were generally reserved for "T" roadsters and not suggested for any rod above 1929.

[Rick Schmidt]

Guys Yall gave some great info Like rebel said about impacts I had wondered about that myself and was rethinking the mounted to the frame Idea. And Jarius suggestion for seeking new axles was also good thinkin of looking for a good one for my 32 Delivery. On another group a guy suggested removing the spring and mounting it behind the axle like a 40 Model. I looked around even found a T with the same setup So I tried it and it works. Now I'm thinking of using the suggestion of cutting the top half of the spring off to go even lower. Thanks guys these idea will all be put to use on other rods

[MikeMc]

try this!!

Edited August 6, 2008 by MikeMc

[Rick Schmidt]

try this!!

Mike I like how the car looks but am unable to tell whats going on. Maqybe this is the setup I see that made me think its on the frame please elaborate on how this is done.

Dangit now thinking of you guys suggestions have me tossin ideas around lol

[kasteer]

Mike I like how the car looks but am unable to tell whats going on. Maqybe this is the setup I see that made me think its on the frame please elaborate on how this is done.

Dangit now thinking of you guys suggestions have me tossin ideas around lol

Post some pics of what you end up doing...

[Jairus]

That is a 1/4 elliptical spring set up. The lower connection to the axle is a set of leaf springs cut in half (A normal leaf spring set up on a car is a 1/2 elliptical)

Anyway, the upper connection is nothing but a connecting rod. But used in conjunction with the leaf spring on the bottom, creates a set of parallel arms which allow the axle to bounce up and down but not twist. Good set up but requires the removal of the forward section of the frame in front of the axle to accomplish. Neat thing about this set up is you can get it as low as you want!!!

Model directions:

Cut off the front frame horns.

Glue two square evergreen plates just behind the front cross-member.

Cut two springs down, each just behind the "U" bolt clamp.

Mount the front wheels to the axle.

Jig up the frame at the correct height.

Block up the front wheels/axle where you want it and using the lower springs... attach the "U" bolt clamp portion to the square evergreen plates and the shackle to the underside of the axle.

Then glue a ti-rod to the upper portion of the axle and the back to the square plate at the top edge.

Let it dry and you should have a fairly sturdy front axle mount.

(Of course, care should be taken to ensure that it all looks realistic..... but that is the basics )

[Rick Schmidt]

That is a 1/4 elliptical spring set up. The lower connection to the axle is a set of leaf springs cut in half (A normal leaf spring set up on a car is a 1/2 elliptical)

Anyway, the upper connection is nothing but a connecting rod. But used in conjunction with the leaf spring on the bottom, creates a set of parallel arms which allow the axle to bounce up and down but not twist. Good set up but requires the removal of the forward section of the frame in front of the axle to accomplish. Neat thing about this set up is you can get it as low as you want!!!

Model directions:

Cut off the front frame horns.

Glue two square evergreen plates just behind the front cross-member.

Cut two springs down, each just behind the "U" bolt clamp.

Mount the front wheels to the axle.

Jig up the frame at the correct height.

Block up the front wheels/axle where you want it and using the lower springs... attach the "U" bolt clamp portion to the square evergreen plates and the shackle to the underside of the axle.

Then glue a ti-rod to the upper portion of the axle and the back to the square plate at the top edge.

Let it dry and you should have a fairly sturdy front axle mount.

(Of course, care should be taken to ensure that it all looks realistic..... but that is the basics )

Jarius/ Mike now I think you guys have me convinced of the front end It just sounds cool lol

Jarius I have somewhat of an idea of your instructions but am still a bit lost Sorry to sound dumb here but I'm not seasoned in Old School rods If this was a modern car It'd be sitting on its rockers already lol

[62rebel]

when i build "rods" i do them in late 40's to early early '60's style, which requires that i retain as much original design as i can. what i've done on a lot of transverse spring models is file the notch deeper into the respective crossmember and slic a little off the very top of the spring where it fits into that space. since both the notch and the spring are then unseen, it makes for a quick and simple old school lowering. my quick and dirty method!

keep in mind the style of the era you're portraying and the limitations rodders had to deal with. this in no way limits your expression in your models, just helps to define it!

my rather arbitrary cutoff date (mid '60's) for rods is due to what i call "show car" influence on rods at the time; lots of sano rods became gook wagons in response to trophy winning car show rods, as they "morphed" into "street rods". just my taste... no call for anyone else to follow!

[evilone]

on the ones i build i take the axle and glue it to the frame

but i onlt do it to my rat rods thats the ones that do it mostly

[MikeMc]

you can hide it behind a track nose!

[sdrodder]

lets see. You can z the frame. You can run a droped axel or a different spring. Also you can make it look lower by channeling the body over the frame. Most rat rods do that. Traditional hot rods run droped axels with a slight channel.

[kustom]

yes most real rods run a droped axel. just an idea im building a 31 ford tudor in a 60 show style. i wanted low but it will also have full fenders so a z'ed frame was outta the question. so what i did was just lift the cross members the frame stayed flat but i got the car as low as i wanted it. if you dont understand i could get pictures but its really pretty easy to understand.

[ramonesblues]

On '32-'34 frames you can lower them by putting in a flat front crossmember.also, when I was a kid, there were lots of cars running suicide perches, not just T buckets.

[diymirage]

i build a ford coupe out of a lindberg kit once and it had the option of being build as a street rod

one of the street rod parts was a second front axle which lay closer to the frame

so this might be something to keep in mind when shopping for a kit, if you are not hellbent n building a costum piece

[sdrodder]

i build a ford coupe out of a lindberg kit once and it had the option of being build as a street rod

one of the street rod parts was a second front axle which lay closer to the frame

so this might be something to keep in mind when shopping for a kit, if you are not hellbent n building a costum piece

lindberg had that peice and amt also had that peice. For me thats the same mold isnt it?

[diymirage]

lindberg had that peice and amt also had that peice. For me thats the same mold isnt it?

to be honoust, i have no idea

[Dragon7665]

lindberg had that peice and amt also had that peice. For me thats the same mold isnt it?

BING BING BING BING!!!! Yes Liny's '40 was a Recycled AMT Kit, just like several others, and even a Few RevelloGrams...

[sdrodder]

BING BING BING BING!!!! Yes Liny's '40 was a Recycled AMT Kit, just like several others, and even a Few RevelloGrams...

thought so. Is the double dragster kits from revell and amt the same too?

[Paul Payne]

I second Early Years Resin- fast shipping, complete order, well packaged, very good quality- you need this stuff! Replicas and Miniatures also has a lot of good stuff, although I can't remember what Norm might have for dropped axles.

[dryvr12]

try this!!

uve made me want to try it

[jeffinvt]

Some one else may have suggested this already, I have not read every response LOL. If you do not want to z the frame you could pie cut a small wedge in front of the firewall and rake the front end up a bit. Here is the result I got on my first try, if you like it I can take some pics that will show exactly what I did.

[evilone]

repeate after me

CHOP AND CHANNEL

there is the key to a successful lowering of an old skool rod