Spot painting repair of a finished coat

[Foxer]

I have a finished coat on my Crown Vic, metallic silver with clear coats, that got attacked by some trim paint that leaked under the masking tape. The trim paint went thru to the plastic about a 3'16 inch in diameter at the base of the C pillar, but not on the pillar directly. I want to "spot" paint it and don't want to repaint the whole body. Should I mask around the area and coat lightly so I can then rub out the edges at the masking? Or just try to limit the area covered with a fine nozzle and rub that to blend? Any suggestions to limit the repaint would be welcome if you painters think this is possible.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Foxer

[Zoom Zoom]

A photo would be of great help.

What kind of trim paint? What kind of silver?

In general, I use acrylic paints for trim painting. That way if there's a screw up, it can be removed w/o affecting the body color (which is generally lacquer). Tamiya acrylics can be cleaned up with Windex. For that reason alone that is what I'd recommend for trim painting.

I've done spot repairs many times w/an airbrush. It all depends on the color and the area needing respray. Silver is a tricky color to match, you have to do a body shop style blend. W/o a photo it's hard to say where you'll need to spray, or if you'll need to redo the whole thing.

[Foxer]

Think I was too embarrassed to put a pic up at first.. I KNOW better than what I did! Forgot to paint the headliner before doing the body. I was obsessive snugging down the tape around the windows, but obviously not enough.

Primer is Plasticote sandable primer .. grey

Color coat is from Paintscratch ... 1962 Ford Light Titanium needing a clear coat. Automotive touch up paint .. Lacquer

Clear coats are Testors One Coat Lacquer.

The clear has been one for over 2 weeks and has been polished.

The blue paint is Modelmaster Enamel.

I first sprayed the headliner with Krylon white sandable primer .. some of that leaked and may be the real culprit to this. I did react to the color coat that was on the headliner. That stuff is virtually unremovable. I had one body in the purple pond for a month with NO effect.

The ragged areas around the windows I'm not too worried about. it all needs a black window trim painting. That's why I thought I would be ok with this.. just didn't expect the large leaks. The one spot at base of the C pillar is the only place that went through to the primer.

I'm thinking at this point maybe tape off the roof and respray after cleaning it all up. Whether I can blend the area with the bare plastic spot is a question.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Foxer

[E St. Kruiser50]

Well, if it were me.......BRAKE FLUID TIME .

Been there many times myself my friend .

In the past, I just had to chalk it up to a learning experience and start over.

I always shoot for perfection. I never attain it, but am closer to it if I don't settle for second best or a patch job.

Everybody will notice it, probably won't say anything, but you know it's there, and it will haunt you 'till you do it right.

It's the old "Pride of accomplishment thing" that makes us start over, and do it 'til it's right - dave

[SteveG]

Think I was too embarrassed to put a pic up at first.. I KNOW better than what I did! Forgot to paint the headliner before doing the body. I was obsessive snugging down the tape around the windows, but obviously not enough.

Primer is Plasticote sandable primer .. grey

Color coat is from Paintscratch ... 1962 Ford Light Titanium needing a clear coat. Automotive touch up paint .. Lacquer

Clear coats are Testors One Coat Lacquer.

The clear has been one for over 2 weeks and has been polished.

The blue paint is Modelmaster Enamel.

I first sprayed the headliner with Krylon white sandable primer .. some of that leaked and may be the real culprit to this. I did react to the color coat that was on the headliner. That stuff is virtually unremovable. I had one body in the purple pond for a month with NO effect.

The ragged areas around the windows I'm not too worried about. it all needs a black window trim painting. That's why I thought I would be ok with this.. just didn't expect the large leaks. The one spot at base of the C pillar is the only place that went through to the primer.

I'm thinking at this point maybe tape off the roof and respray after cleaning it all up. Whether I can blend the area with the bare plastic spot is a question.

If it didn't bite into the finishing you mave be able to wetsand it out with a 3200 polish pad. You could also try a little enamel thinner with a Q-tip. If you've already polished and waxed the body your going to have trouble applying paint again as most of those products will cause fish eyes. Next time you need paint a headliner after the body use Modelmaster acylics and brush paint it. Clean up is a breeze and you won't have worry about leak through.

[Zoom Zoom]

Yikes...it's a mess . Considering your bodywork, you really should do what it takes to get it properly fixed. You either need to strip, or spend a lot of time sanding all the edges smooth...it will be easiest to repaint the whole model than try a spot repair. Did you airbrush or use the spray cans?

I agree with Steve; I never spray headliners...if I did, I'd do it first and mask it to protect it from the body color, not the other way around...way too much chance of a disaster just like this. Headliners are so "not visible" that nobody can tell if you've brush painted it with acrylic.

[Foxer]

Yeah .. don't know what I was thinking. I've always brushed the headliners. I really appreciate the comment about using acrylics for that .. something I have never considered. The headliner needed a shade of the paint I sprayed on the interior so I sprayed it since it was already thinned for airbrushing.

I appreciate all the comments and I'm sure it's gonna need a dip in the pond. It's only polished with the Novus #2 and no wax yet. I am toying with just dipping the roof and making a blend attempt. Nothing to lose at this point.. except the body putty! I know the purple pond will affect the putty. Does anyone know if any of the other paint removers will leave the putty alone? It's mostly Evercoat Euro-Soft but the last thin coats are Evercoat Ever-Glaze spot putty.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Foxer

[E St. Kruiser50]

Yeah .. don't know what I was thinking. I've always brushed the headliners. I really appreciate the comment about using acrylics for that .. something I have never considered. The headliner needed a shade of the paint I sprayed o n the interior so I sprayed it since it was already thinned for airbrushing.

I appreciate all the comments and I'm sure it's gonna need a dip in the pond. It's only polished with the Novus #2 and no wax yet. I am toying with just dipping the roof and making a blend attempt. Nothing to lose at this point.. except the body putty! I know the purple pond will affect the putty. Does anyone know if any of the other paint removers will leave the putty alone? It's mostly Evercoat Euro-Soft but the last thin coats are Evercoat Ever-Glaze spot putty.

Brake fluid attacks it too - been there - done it too .

[Zoom Zoom]

Sounds like you are in one of those "rock and a hard place" situations. Considering the putty work on the rest of the model, you could face plenty of issues of any stripper attacking your bodywork in other areas. I would avoid "spot stripping" as any stripper left over could cause problems.

If this were mine, I'd be getting my sandpapers and small sanding blocks ready and repair the damage that way, and then spot prime the repairs, scuff the remaining silver, and reshoot the silver over the entire car (you won't need much to cover what's on there now, you'll be doing more of a blend). When block sanding you may find you need a couple spots of putty (like the area down to the primer at the base of the C pillar, to make it smooth/blend w/the rest of the work). It may take some time, but likely less time than starting from scratch from stripping all your paint/primer and damaging the putty.

Very recently I've had to do spot repairs, they are frustrating, and one instance I had to give up and start w/a fresh body (new model, no loss of custom bodywork). I try to do everything to avoid stripping paint, and even though your model looks a bit messy, it might work out okay. You'll find out quickly if the sanding is going to work or not. Just remember all the time you spent on the main part of the body...you'll have to do a ton of work there again if you have to strip everything.

[Foxer]

Sounds like you are in one of those "rock and a hard place" situations. Considering the putty work on the rest of the model, you could face plenty of issues of any stripper attacking your bodywork in other areas. I would avoid "spot stripping" as any stripper left over could cause problems.

If this were mine, I'd be getting my sandpapers and small sanding blocks ready and repair the damage that way, and then spot prime the repairs, scuff the remaining silver, and reshoot the silver over the entire car (you won't need much to cover what's on there now, you'll be doing more of a blend). When block sanding you may find you need a couple spots of putty (like the area down to the primer at the base of the C pillar, to make it smooth/blend w/the rest of the work). It may take some time, but likely less time than starting from scratch from stripping all your paint/primer and damaging the putty.

Very recently I've had to do spot repairs, they are frustrating, and one instance I had to give up and start w/a fresh body (new model, no loss of custom bodywork). I try to do everything to avoid stripping paint, and even though your model looks a bit messy, it might work out okay. You'll find out quickly if the sanding is going to work or not. Just remember all the time you spent on the main part of the body...you'll have to do a ton of work there again if you have to strip everything.

This sounds like a plan I can live with, Bob. (Dave LOVES painting WAY too much ... he'll strip and repaint at the drop of a hair!! ) Despite my kidding, just know I GREATLY respect all your opinions on this and have considered all with much thought. I cleaned around the windows after the photo.. that white looks much worst than it was and it cleaned up fine, including the blue enamel that came right off the lacquer without a stain. I think worst case is how Bob outlines, just spray the silver again and go from there without stripping. There isn't any molded in logos and such where the additional paint will hide anything, so I'm safe there.

Thanks Dave... brake fluid was the one I was really wondering about . all the others I've used I know they don't like putty.

And off the the LHS to find some acrylic for the headliner!! (at least my sense of humor is back)

[Abell82]

CA Debonder, on a superfine Microbrush, makes a VERY good spot stripper. CA debonder also evaporates, so while it probably harms the environment, it won't harm the paint touch up.

[sak]

Perhaps I don't fully understand the situation but it doesn"t seem like the end of the world. Don't make it more complicated than you have to. Sand only that panel down to bare plastic, prime and paint it again. Actually no need to go bare plastic at all, just feather the area that is already. Mebbe add some putty if you have to. If the paint is cured, apply primer right over the whole panel and then color. No need to paint the entire thing again, unless you mixed a custom color. Just use some thin masking tape along the red line I drew on the picture.

Edited August 19, 2009 by sak

[E St. Kruiser50]

(Dave LOVES painting WAY too much ... he'll strip and repaint at the drop of a hair!! )

(at least my sense of humor is back)

Yeah, we gotta keep our sense of humor - IT'S JUST PLASTIC .

I've had problems in the past with paint attacking itself on a re-spray after it had dried a few days, hense the suggestion to strip.

A re-paint over the existing problem would be much easier, once you get the problem fixed and prepped properly, but if it was me I'd re-shoot the whole car body with primer and then a re-paint - JUST ME.

GOOD LUCK ON WHATEVER YOU DO - dave

[Zoom Zoom]

Perhaps I don't fully understand the situation but it doesn"t seem like the end of the world. Don't make it more complicated than you have to. Sand only that panel down to bare plastic, prime and paint it again. Actually no need to go bare plastic at all, just feather the area that is already. Mebbe add some putty if you have to. If the paint is cured, apply primer right over the whole panel and then color. No need to paint the entire thing again, unless you mixed a custom color. Just use some thin masking tape along the red line I drew on the picture.

Your approach is simpler, however just like a real car, the repaired/repainted panel would not match the others. Especially on a silver car...even using the same paint is no guarantee. There's a reason painters blend panels so your eye doesn't see the color change so easily right on a panel line. Saw a brand new Infiniti G37 coupe yesterday in silver...and the poor car had a passenger door that was a shade darker than the front/rear fenders. Stood out like a sore thumb, especially on such a new car.

[Foxer]

Your approach is simpler, however just like a real car, the repaired/repainted panel would not match the others. Especially on a silver car...even using the same paint is no guarantee. There's a reason painters blend panels so your eye doesn't see the color change so easily right on a panel line. Saw a brand new Infiniti G37 coupe yesterday in silver...and the poor car had a passenger door that was a shade darker than the front/rear fenders. Stood out like a sore thumb, especially on such a new car.

I fully understand what you're saying, Bob. It's a tough spot to try doing just a panel. It's still swimming in my head.

And for that G37 .. groan.. I have a Black 6-speed G37 Coupe in the garage ... it has a SUV door crease in the rear fender and been terrified of the panel painting it needs.

[Ddms]

I love patching, mainly because it seems like a small miracle. You can get great results by doing it carefully - but only you're painting with synthetic lacquers like Tamiya TS and MM Lacquer System. With these paints, new coats melt into old coats. Enamels and acrylics don't do that, so patching them is a much more difficult proposition. That's one reason I like the syn lacquers. (Actually, patching seems to work pretty well with automotive urethanes, too. But I haven't done it enough times to be sure.)

I've tried masking along panel lines, and it never works for me. I always manage to either fill the panel gap or to create a new and unsightly edge along the seam.

So I now do what I call "soft patching." Here's the drill:

Prep the damaged area, making sure that there are no unwanted gouges, nicks or paint edges. Mask off the rest of the car about 1/4" back from the repair. Then comes the magic: lift the edge of the masking tape about 1/8" inch all around the area to be sprayed. When you spray, avoid spraying under that lifted tape edge. That way, the new paint won't build up a hard, visible edge. Multiple coats might be necessary, since repairs often have dark and light areas that will show through.

When the masking tape is removed, the boundary between new and old paint should be invisible. If there's a change in texture, a little light wet-sanding with 1500 grit will disappear it forever.

Ddms

Edited August 20, 2009 by Ddms

[Foxer]

I love patching, mainly because it seems like a small miracle. You can get great results by doing it carefully - but only you're painting with synthetic lacquers like Tamiya TS and MM Lacquer System. With these paints, new coats melt into old coats. Enamels and acrylics don't do that, so patching them is a much more difficult proposition. That's one reason I like the syn lacquers. (Actually, patching seems to work pretty well with automotive urethanes, too. But I haven't done it enough times to be sure.)

I've tried masking along panel lines, and it never works for me. I always manage to either fill the panel gap or to create a new and unsightly edge along the seam.

So I now do what I call "soft patching." Here's the drill:

Prep the damaged area, making sure that there are no unwanted gouges, nicks or paint edges. Mask off the rest of the car about 1/4" back from the repair. Then comes the magic: lift the edge of the masking tape about 1/8" inch all around the area to be sprayed. When you spray, avoid spraying under that lifted tape edge. That way, the new paint won't build up a hard, visible edge. Multiple coats might be necessary, since repairs often have dark and light areas that will show through.

When the masking tape is removed, the boundary between new and old paint should be invisible. If there's a change in texture, a little light wet-sanding with 1500 grit will disappear it forever.

Ddms

Interesting technique ... will file away for thought on this.. I have a clear already down on this one so might hamper me on this repair.

[Ddms]

I have a clear already down on this one so might hamper me on this repair.

If the clear is a synthetic lacquer like Tam TS13, you can spray a color coat over it and more clear on top of that, EVEN if the color coat is automotive urethane. Works like a charm, but don't let a lifted inner tape edge accidentally drop down and stick to the model. If that happens, you'll have a ridge to sand down.

Edited August 22, 2009 by Ddms

[charlie8575]

Mike, after reading through this, I'm wondering if you might want to try another stripping method besides immersion.

If you decide to go the immersion route, you might want to try Whestly's whitewall cleaner. It's a lot less aggressive than Super Clean and still works pretty well. I've also used ammonia before with some success.

My thoughts, though, after reading what happened and the body work issues, is to consider oven cleaner. While highly caustic, it does not bother the plastic, and will remove 99% of the paint very handily. It's also VERY fast (about 15-20 minutes,) so it might not have a chance to make a mess of your body-work. Also, as the body has sat for a very long time, that putty will have hardened very nicely, and would probably be less-susceptible to damage anyway.

Give it some thought.

Charlie Larkin

[Foxer]

Also, as the body has sat for a very long time, that putty will have hardened very nicely, and would probably be less-susceptible to damage anyway.

haha, I like that thought Charlie! Procrastination DOES have it's advantages!

I'm going to go ahead and try a spot repair on the roof. I'm feeling I can blend it in pretty well without stripping the whole thing. What might cause a problem is the clear. I have sanded it at the interface but it could create a "line" that would show. There's nothing to lose doing it and it will be the Berkshire Purple Pond if it all shows.

Thanks for the ideas about what might not hurt the bodywork .. I do have all that stuff here and may try.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Foxer

[Scale-Master]

I don't know if this will help you or not, but it does explain how to blend the edges making a spot repair possible. I posted this mini how-to several months ago:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12193&st=0&p=94820&hl=Paint%20repair&fromsearch=1&#entry94820

Edited May 2, 2010 by Scale-Master

[Foxer]

This sure does look like just what the doctor ordered, Mark. Thanks for the post, but I do have one question if you touch back here. In your statement "The idea here is to blend the “aura†or over spray haze with a little reducer, or even better, some blender as I used.", what is a "blender". I don't use urethane, so maybe that's why I've never seen this used as a product term.

[Scale-Master]

This sure does look like just what the doctor ordered, Mark. Thanks for the post, but I do have one question if you touch back here. In your statement "The idea here is to blend the “aura†or over spray haze with a little reducer, or even better, some blender as I used.", what is a "blender". I don't use urethane, so maybe that's why I've never seen this used as a product term.

Blender is a chemical painting product, (just like Reducer is a chemical painting product). You will likely have to go to an automotive paint supplier. It works on enamels, lacquers and urethanes. I prefer the Dupont brand, but the 4 digit code/part number escapes me at this moment and I am not at my shop.

The info and description I provided is enough for a paint shop to identify the product for you. They’ll know what it is…

[Foxer]

Very interesting. A quart of PPG is a bit much for what I need, but I see some in spray cans that should work decanted into my airbrush for some control.

[Scale-Master]

A quart is a near lifetime supply for a modeler. Be careful about two things besides the regular heath precautions:

1-It evaporates almost as fast as liquid cement. Keep the lid on tight.

2-It wants to run like a little girl. Use one or two dry passes. Wait a minute. If it needs more make one or two more passes. Be patient. If you make it look good and shiny while you are spraying, I guarantee it will run. Let it do its job. It may take 10 passes, it may take one. But never more than two between flash times.