71drolds Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) having returned from this model contest today, i have to say i am disgusted with the parameters that the models were judged by. this is not a reflection on the judges in particular, but the way the judging was done. i was told that the models would not be picked up to see the level of detail on the chassis. while i understand that they are afraid of handling the models and breaking them, how can you possibly judge a model without taking into account the entire model! by this standard i could of left the bottom of the car unpainted and had glue slopped all over the place and it wouldnt have mattered. i spent alot of time making sure i had as much detail under the car as on top and it was never even seen. i was told the only way they would be judged was on the least amount of mistakes. so having scratchbuilt many parts and gone through hours of detailing it would have been simpler to just leave all that out because it wouldnt factor in on the judging. they actually told the judges to look for more errors on the kits with more non box stock parts. secondly, the classes were a joke. a large scale model has no business being in a class of smaller scale kits. no disrespect to large scale builders, but you can cram a heck of alot more detail into these kits much easier. there were plenty of classes based on scale for all the planes, why not the cars? also, there should of been a seperate class for non-commercial trucks. there were enough trucks on hand for this class. i know that may not have been the case in the past, but it was today. i also saw at least four cars in the stock class that clearly were not stock. lastly, i watched a "regular", come in and enter his models 10 mins. past the end of registration. how is this fair to the builders that showed up in the allotted amount of time or sat around for 5 hours waiting for registration to close and judging to begin. i would have felt this way had i won or not and this is not me gripping about not winning. im sure alot of people put much effort into hosting and planning this show and its a shame it was handled the way it was. this was the first and last time i will attend an IPMS show. Edited September 11, 2011 by 71drolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale-Master Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Is IMPS a typo? I know of IPMS and have some opinions and observations myself, but I want to be sure we would be discussing the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71drolds Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 my bad. it is IPMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshaver Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Matt, here locally, ( Richmond Virginia ) I have personally fought long and hard as to a decent class break down concerning cars . Is especially evident when my FORMER I P M S club was about to host it's first Old Dominion Open back in the l;ate 1980's . Look, this club made no bones about what it stood for at that time , W W II Aircraft ! Meanwhile , Gasoline pump model builders such as myself had no where to go but to N N L's and a paltry few automobile themed events . While the Richmond Virginia chapter has made great strides in automobile judging, they still need to vastly improve upon several other NON -W W II Classes . Hopefully now , they will cause I'm sure my comments will come back upon me as they usually do ! Ed Shaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Even more information that makes my decision to never enter a contest look better and better to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71drolds Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) i wouldnt go that far harry. the last one i entered in kirkwood mo was great! i dont have a single bad word to say about it other than the awards could of been a little better. but im not paying for them so i shouldnt complain. ed, this show definetly catered to military builders. i think there were five classes for automobiles(excluding the junior classes) and there must have been 20 or more for the military stuff. Edited September 11, 2011 by 71drolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffs396 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) Matt, I just got back from a small IPMS show in Sharon, PA. I've never been to this one in particular, but I will go next year again. I didn't have anything completed to enter, but put the '64 pickup on the table as "display only" per the organizer's instruction. None of the IPMS shows I've been to really tailor to automotive builds all that much, but this one had a pretty impressive (compared to other IPMS shows) car and truck (civilian) turnout. As you say, it seems that they normally cater to the military/armor/aircraft builders. I know your Blazer is already a show winner, and your recently completed Olds looks to be also, so don't be discouraged by this one show... To those that may know, isn't this the main reason the NNL was formed back in the 80s??? Edited September 11, 2011 by jeffs396 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71drolds Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 thanks jeff. im not discouraged at all, just disappointed in the contest. but like i say to everyone else, "if you dont like it, dont take part in it", and thats just what im going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romell R Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I have been attending model contest for 20+ years and what I have learned is that no two contest are judged the same , you can always find out ahead of time (before you put your car on the table) what the judges will be looking for. Then you can make a conscious decision on weather or not you still want to enter. If you go to the contest expecting to win more often than not you could end up disappointed. All model shows/contest should be viewed with having a good time in mind, go to see what the other guys are doing. make it a point to learn something from someone. If you do win then that will be an extra bonus to top off an already good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71drolds Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 romell i agree with you on all accounts. i just dont understand their thinking on judging these cars in a fair manner. i'll admit, i did have a good feeling about taking a place in my class and it was a let down not to. i dont mind being beat by a better builder. lord knows im not the best and their are modelers out there with far greater talent than i will ever have. it just ticks me off when its not a level playing field and all aspects of the entry are not taken into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 "if you dont like it, dont take part in it", and thats just what im going to do. That's how I feel about contests of all kinds. Don't 'get' them, don't attend them, don't want any part of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 That's how I feel about contests of all kinds. Don't 'get' them, don't attend them, don't want any part of them. You and me both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffs396 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 That's how I feel about contests of all kinds. Don't 'get' them, don't attend them, don't want any part of them. You're missing out on the swapmeet/vendor portion of these shows Chuck...I bought two different older out-of-production kits (sealed) today for $6 each! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) As a former member of an IPMS club I'll address some of these issues. Below in BOLD. i was told that the models would not be picked up to see the level of detail on the chassis. Standard IPMS practice. If you want your underside seen, buy a reflective base. i was told the only way they would be judged was on the least amount of mistakes. Also standard. If you make simple mistakes like unsanded seams and mold lines, glue spots then how many scratched parts you have don't matter at all. Also you can ask the judges what they didn't like about your models, after the judging. In most case, they are happy to tell you what you can improve on. secondly, the classes were a joke. a large scale model has no business being in a class of smaller scale kits. no disrespect to large scale builders, but you can cram a heck of alot more detail into these kits much easier. there were plenty of classes based on scale for all the planes, why not the cars? also, there should of been a seperate class for non-commercial trucks. there were enough trucks on hand for this class. i know that may not have been the case in the past, but it was today. i also saw at least four cars in the stock class that clearly were not stock. More classes. Everyone wants these. However you have to realize, the clubs are NOT making money here. Every cent they make goes into the facility and awards. More classes equals more awards need to be bought. That means they have to charge more. Most would like to keep the cost down for the participant. lastly, i watched a "regular", come in and enter his models 10 mins. past the end of registration. how is this fair to the builders that showed up in the allotted amount of time or sat around for 5 hours waiting for registration to close and judging to begin. Modeling is supposed ot be fun and a relief from the stupidity of every day life. Some poor guy gets delayed due to an accident on the freeway, and you want to tell him to get out? i would have felt this way had i won or not and this is not me gripping about not winning. im sure alot of people put much effort into hosting and planning this show and its a shame it was handled the way it was. this was the first and last time i will attend an IPMS show. Sorry you feel this way. Your loss though. It's not necessarily about the contest. It's about spending a few hours kicking it with like minded folks, face to face, discussing our hobby. Edited September 11, 2011 by Jantrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 You're missing out on the swapmeet/vendor portion of these shows Chuck...I bought two different older out-of-production kits (sealed) today for $6 each! That's what Dean's, the local hole in the wall shops, and the internet is for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71drolds Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) well rob, i dont feel ive lost anything. i did spent time talking to fellow builders, got some tips and gave some. i enjoyed my time there but, standard practices or not, i dont agree with them and will not take part in ipms events in the future. to all who do or are part of the ipms, by all means continue and take part in our hobby as much as you can. i dont expect to change opinions or rules by this rant. its just a way to express my feelings of an unfair and disappointing experience. by the way, ive already order a mirrored base. however, i was told the underside of the model doesnt matter and isnt judged unless its a tie breaker senerio. so if thats true at these shows, why even have a reflective base? once again it goes back to judging the model as a whole not just what you can see from above with your little flashlight. as far as the late entry, dont wait till the last darn minute to get to an event you most likely knew about for months before. you dont know why he was delayed and niether do i, but if it were me i would expect to be turned away in order to assure the rules are upheld. if not why have them? how about i show up when the awards are being handed out and demand to be judged? i suppose at your show that would be ok. Edited September 11, 2011 by 71drolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320wayne Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I have been attending model contest for 20+ years and what I have learned is that no two contest are judged the same , you can always find out ahead of time (before you put your car on the table) what the judges will be looking for. Then you can make a conscious decision on weather or not you still want to enter. If you go to the contest expecting to win more often than not you could end up disappointed. All model shows/contest should be viewed with having a good time in mind, go to see what the other guys are doing. make it a point to learn something from someone. If you do win then that will be an extra bonus to top off an already good day. Probably the best response to this so far. Model contests are a great happening (in my opinion) and should be taken for what they are worth. If you go expecting it to be a certain way, when you are obviously not knowledgable about the IPMS process with this being your first one attended, then you are almost certain to have some of these feelings. Nobody can tell you how you should act in regards to attending contests. They can say "have fun", but if you're ultra competitive it's hard to put that concept on the back burner. But you do need to understand that all shows are run differently. IPMS creates a basic set of guidelines for their chapters to use, or not use, for any show put on. It's the chapters choice to decide to go with this or create their own format. Unfortunately, IPMS does cater more to the military modeler than that of the automotive one. You can't complain if the show only had four or five categories for automotive models because that's a fact that is part of their advertising and you should know this going in. From my experience I have found quite a few shows across the country put on by IMPS chapters that do expand the auto classes to more readily match that of most of the military classes. IPMS also teaches the practice of not handling models during judging. Not so much on the automotive side of things but some of the military styles of building consist of projects with many fragile parts and the last thing anyone wants to do is break someones model. That's the basic reason for this and they have to be consistent across all categories. It's a shame that you did not have a better experience at this show. I would suggest though, that you don't fully condem the entire IPMS organization just because your one and only experience at an IPMS show was unfavorable. Yeah, I've been to some shows that appearred that they were being run by monkeys, but I still had a good time because I was able to be around a hobby that I love, see some great models and meet some great people and builders. To me that's what it's all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71drolds Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) wayne i agree with you. my ignorance of ipms practices is obvious. true, i am a very competitive person, but i didnt mind not taking a place in the show. i just didnt like the judging practices so i will take myself out of the problem by not attending. if you or anyone else agrees with them, by all means go to every show they put on and enjoy yourself. i have nothing against the judges, the organizers or the ipms members. im sure they worked hard to pull off the event and provide an atmosphere for those in the hobby to come together. Edited September 11, 2011 by 71drolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) well rob, i dont feel ive lost anything. i did spent time talking to fellow builders, got some tips and gave some. i enjoyed my time there but, standard practices or not, i dont agree with them and will not take part in ipms events in the future. Not all IPMS shows are judged the same way. to all who do or are part of the ipms, by all means continue and take part in our hobby as much as you can. i dont expect to change opinions or rules by this rant. its just a way to express my feelings of an unfair (in your opinion) and disappointing experience. by the way, ive already order a mirrored base. however, i was told the underside of the model doesnt matter and isnt judged unless its a tie breaker senerio. That's a new one on me. At my clubs events, you are judged on everything the judge can see without picking up the model. so if thats true at these shows, why even have a reflective base? once again it goes back to judging the model as a whole not just what you can see from above with your little flashlight. as far as the late entry, dont wait till the last darn minute to get to an event you most likely knew about for months before. you dont know why he was delayed and niether do i, but if it were me i would expect to be turned away in order to assure the rules are upheld. if not why have them? Again, these shows/contests are about having a good time. If you want rigidly enforced rules find something else to compete at. how about i show up when the awards are being handed out and demand to be judged? i suppose at your show that would be ok. No need to get beligerant just because I have a different opinion. If you feel like ranting, you'd better expect people to call you on it. Edited September 11, 2011 by Jantrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71drolds Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 No need to get beligerant just because I have a different opinion. If you feel like ranting, you'd better expect people to call you on it. by all means, call me on it. i just returned the attitude i felt you were giving me by your comments about the late arrival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 ... its just a way to express my feelings of an unfair and disappointing experience... This statement (not the first time you mentioned "unfair") stands out. Disappointed, I can understand, but other than someone being 10 minutes late, I haven't heard you state that the other contestants were judged any differently than you, so where did the "unfair" part come in? Unfair because they didn't run there show the way you want? My experience at several IPMS shows over the last couple of years is that they encourage automotive entrants and invite positive input on how to make this happen. Not knowing how many car guys will show up, it is difficult to determine what classes to support. I think it's great that the IPMS judging puts such an emphasis on basic building skills. My understanding is that this is the first thing they look for. Models that that don't achieve this baseline of basic standard build practices don't make the final cut. What better way to encourage basic building skills. I entered my 29 Ford pickup and gokart in the light commercial class at a recent IPMS show. After looking over the competition, I felt my chances were pretty good. Unfortunately, at some time during the show (and before the judging), I took the kart off the back of the truck to show off the wood pickup bed floor and set it next to the truck on my display. This made the kart a part of the display platform rather than part of the light commercial truck entry. Consequently, I think the trunk was judged on it's own without taking into consideration the highly detailed and scratch built kart. In IPMS judging, only the model is judged, not the display unless it is a diorama. This is not unfair, it is the way any entrant would have been judged. Don't walk away in defeat. I would encourage you to go to the IPMS USA website and read up on the judging criteria and categories. Rob's comments really hit the nail on the head. Give it another shot next year and show 'em what you got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XJ6 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) Well me and a friend drove all the way to Reno,NV from Sacramento,Ca (145miles) to the IPMS Show, Today...and although the theme was Aircraft and Tanks..with just a "few" cars...it was a lot of Fun..Talked to some Good People..And noticed when the judging was being done they paid attention to the underside of the planes and what hav'ya with little Mag Lites....For most of the Models were sitting on Glass Mirrors...Thought this was a great idea...it was a good event went home empty handed....which is fine all the vendors had were Planes & Tanks....well i build Car's...Cheers to All.. Edited September 11, 2011 by XJ6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteowl7710 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 What I am getting out of this is "I didn't win, and that's not fair". Perhaps that's not being fair to your overall experience at the show, but in reality your sorta talking out both sides of your mouth. On one hand you're saying you're not the best builder, and other may be better, but on the other your claiming the judging criteria was unfair because no one saw your chassis and your ultra-competitive. This is similar to claiming your sports team didn't win because of a bad call by the ref. If the difference between you placing and not, was all on the bottom of your model then the rest of your model was not up to snuff on this day. Yes all of the work and effort you placed into the chassis wasn't counted, but neither was anyone else's. If anything, basic standardized judging levels the playing field entirely. Especially at an IPMS event where there usually isn't a box stock/OOB class. All the bells, whistles and ge-gaws don't matter when it's all about how well you cover the basic building techniques. I attended the Sharon IPMS show referenced earlier in this thread for a number of years in the 1990's and placed and/or won my class on several occasions, and on more occasions I walked away with nothing but that sinking feeling when you name isn't called. Does that mean some years the judging wasn't as fair as it was in the years I placed? Just between you, me and the lamppost no matter how competitive you are, you can never, ever, under any circumstances enter a model contest with the expectation of winning anything. If you do, more often than not you're not going to be happy with the judging criteria and will burn out on the experience of going to shows at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Now I grant you, this was not a sponsored show like NNL or IPMS ( I...PMS, oh my god I just got that! Yeah- those last three letters make me have to bite my tongue every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whale392 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Funny, but most of the shows in this area are put on by IPMS chapters and we have NEVER had any problems with them. As a matter of fact, it has always been great fun when we have gone. The vendor area has always been good (not just chock-full-o-military), the show itself was well run/judged, and the techniques you can learn by talking with these builders is amazing. They take interest in how us 'Car' guys can lay down such flawlessly glossy paint, and we marvel at their realism in all areas. IPMS in its' genetic make-up IS Military modeling, but is open to all models. I will most certainly go to an IPMS show, and look forward to them. You had a bad experience ONCE, and are calling foul? I too am extremely competitive; the difference seems to be that I KNOW when I am out of my league and don't cry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.