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Testor's One Coat post mortem


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#1 MitchP

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:49 PM

I've received LOTS of good and interesting advice here on the most difficult part of taking up building models again after 45 years - painting bodies. However, my first kit has taken 4 bodies (bought from Ebay and given by modeling friends) . The chassis and interior are done and detailed with more fun than I could have ever imagined; as for the current body, I'm happy enough with the results that hopefully only a couple of things need addressing.

 

After initial prep and priming (3 mist coats), I have to this point, applied 3 mist coats (20 mins. drying in between) and one wet coat (after 20 mins.) of color.  It's now drying.  Here are my questions to finish the deal:

 1)  The paint used was Testors One Coat metallic. During painting, I've tried several different different colors from different shops. There has always been an issue with either the paint or the clear coat of the same brand.  I'd like some suggestions on a replacement laquer (even pearlescence), just not METALLIC!

 

2) At this time, the body is drying after only 1 wetcoat. The reason is because of the fisheye condition on a few hard to see spots and I'm afraid to push my luck without know how to resolve this. In addition, there are a few dust particles on the roof and trunk lid which would be nice fix. Should I attempt to wetsand the dust spots and maybe the fisheyes too before another basecoat? Should I shoot a clear coat or two and then sand down lightly to remove the basecoat imperfections? Or, shoot another wetcoat of the base color so the body has some substance before proceeding?

 

I've come to the conclusion that besides many more years of experience, I will NEVER use metallic, glittery paints anymore. There are simply too many variables involved with solvent, the flakes in the can, etc. I just want a good recommendation for a laquer (even a pearlescent finish) that doesn't have the issues of "one coat metallics" and a set number of time between coats, both primer, base and clear.

 

I know this was long winded, but I appreciate any help.



#2 935k3

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:38 PM

Airbrush.



#3 Mike Kucaba

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 02:44 AM

Practice, Patience, Practice   Possibly try Tamiya. Fish eyes usually mean foreign stuff on the surface.



#4 MitchP

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 03:02 AM

935k3 - :lol:   Seriously, I've already thought about that route. I can't afford an airbrush kit and a badly needed paint booth. I've seen E-bay auctions for self-contained little units; nothing like the ones with full-sized HVAC filters, decent air movers and a nice paint area. But auctions ones are only $50 or so and at least have some air venting from behind the paint stand and above using a piece of cheap dryer venting. Not sure where the fumes go or if I have to find another dryer hose and run it out the back door.

 

However, on the subject of airbrushing...  I've seen little starter kits containing some acrylic basic paint bottles, an aerosol can,  a clear paint feed bottle (some kits have 2) and several types of sprayer tops. The acrylic colors have a good selection, I think there is a "cut" or mixer to thin the paint too; however, I've also been led to understand it's a hard learn as far as mixing to get the right thickness and tackiness, etc.



#5 MitchP

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 03:38 AM

Mike: you may be right. I washed and dried the body right out of the kit. Then I sprayed Tamiya mist coats of primer, a total of 3, and let them dry. At that point I worked on mold issues, etc. and shot a final mist coat of primer. After that, I used 2000 grit to slightly roughen the body and give the 1st mist coat of base color a grip. I shot a total of 3 mist coats of base, 20 mins. in between each. All was well at this point. After 20 minutes, I shot my 1st wet coat, doing everything possible to keep an even distance and sweep. Everything looked great until I took the model up to show my wife, who noticed the fisheyes.

 

I'll try Tamiya next since I use their primers. I hope they have a good selection of colors!



#6 randx0

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:57 AM

Fix the problem areas before continuing, One coat usually dries pretty fast so sanding it next day should be fine unless the paint was sprayed way too heavy. I usually use duplicolor or plasticote primers from the autoparts store . the one coat clear I think is just fine but again the automotive clear lacquers are usually fine over dry hobby lacquers.



#7 Erik Smith

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:01 AM

You can get very good - if not excellent - results with rattle cans. Surface prep is paramount to a good finish.
Fish eyes are generally caused by contaminant on the surface which causes the paint to "avoid" the area.
I am not a big fan if the Testors paints - try Tamiya or Duplicolor paints.

Edited by Erik Smith, 26 September 2013 - 06:02 AM.


#8 MitchP

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 11:31 AM

Thank you all for your help. I've isolated one or two things right away - I have never worn cheap rubber gloves and most likely gotten oils from my skin on the body which caused problems with adhering. I also stopped by our local body shop and was recommended a rattle can clear I can obtain nearby. Advice from a professional painter is pretty cool. Especially if they build models from time to time ;)  I'm also laying off Testors for a kit or two and using only Duplicolor for the base. I still find the Tamiya fine white great for primer. I didn't take the time to document my build correctly with pictures; however, once the body is completely painted I will start my "finished" thread with pictures of the chassis, interior and body with choice of 2 hoods, wing, chutes, chrome and some BMF waiting to be done. This project has been on hold for months while I've fought over the body mess!



#9 charlie8575

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:26 AM

Hi, Mitch. Welcome back.

 

I've never had any problems with the Testors lacquers. They do, however require you to actively practice a phrase I learned in Latin I when I was a freshman in high school- two words that have stayed with me all these years since- cum diligentia. The direct translation is "with great care."

 

The One Coat lacquers (I'm assuming you're using the more custom colors as opposed to the factory-match product?) require very thin coats on a well-primed surface.

 

Primer- I  swear by Plati-Kote's primers and it's almost all I use. I find the solvents less problematic than Dupli-Color's solvents, especially with the newer, softer plastics we're seeing more of. I use the gray, white and oxide red, depending on the final color.

 

I always sand the parts with 600-grit wet-dry sanding film under either running water or in a tub of water (I like the 5-qt. Ziploc rectangular containers for all sorts of things), and then wash the part(s) in soapy water, rinse and allow to air-dry.

 

The One-Coat name is a little misleading. The product is a decent paint, but I've found two light coats gets better results with it. Allow the paint to dry completely (2-3 days) before top-coating. A light wet-sanding, followed by another soap-and-water bath/rinse and air-dry will help you out a lot. Clear can follow after that.

 

For other paints, I've used Plasti-Kote, Testors enamels and lacquers and both old and new Dupli-Color paints for sprays. For airbrush, I've used Testors enamels cut with lacquer thinner, MCW and have a bottle of Scale Finishes enamel I'll be trying soon. I also have a project that will have me cutting a vile of Dupli-Color touch up paint with lacquer thinner, and will see how  that works.

 

I'm not too crazy about the new formula Dupli-Color paints. They don't seem to work as well as they should, and on one car, I've had a devil of a time getting a good paint job, and this is with repeated cleaning, sanding, etc. I'm going to try decanting the paint and airbrushing it to see if that works as an experiment to see if it's more the paint or more the nozzle (their nozzles are AWFUL).

 

I've also used Krylon products for certain things. You must prime very thoroughly, but the results are good if you're careful and use light coats, as the solvents are strong, which is why it dries so fast.

 

As to airbrushing I highly recommend giving it a shot. I have a Paasche H, which is a nice, all-metal, American-made airbrush that works well. Make sure to get at least two bottles (1 and 3 oz) for big jobs. Harbor Freight usually has a decent deal on small "pancake" compressors with regulators that will provide plenty of air.

 

Seriously, if you can use a rattle-can, you can airbrush. Use some of the extra bodies and other stuff you have to practice on.

 

Good luck!

 

Charlie Larkin



#10 Marc @ MPC Motorsports

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:39 AM

Hi, Mitch. Welcome back.

 

I've never had any problems with the Testors lacquers. They do, however require you to actively practice a phrase I learned in Latin I when I was a freshman in high school- two words that have stayed with me all these years since- cum diligentia. The direct translation is "with great care."

 

The One Coat lacquers (I'm assuming you're using the more custom colors as opposed to the factory-match product?) require very thin coats on a well-primed surface.

 

Primer- I  swear by Plati-Kote's primers and it's almost all I use. I find the solvents less problematic than Dupli-Color's solvents, especially with the newer, softer plastics we're seeing more of. I use the gray, white and oxide red, depending on the final color.

 

I always sand the parts with 600-grit wet-dry sanding film under either running water or in a tub of water (I like the 5-qt. Ziploc rectangular containers for all sorts of things), and then wash the part(s) in soapy water, rinse and allow to air-dry.

 

The One-Coat name is a little misleading. The product is a decent paint, but I've found two light coats gets better results with it. Allow the paint to dry completely (2-3 days) before top-coating. A light wet-sanding, followed by another soap-and-water bath/rinse and air-dry will help you out a lot. Clear can follow after that.

 

For other paints, I've used Plasti-Kote, Testors enamels and lacquers and both old and new Dupli-Color paints for sprays. For airbrush, I've used Testors enamels cut with lacquer thinner, MCW and have a bottle of Scale Finishes enamel I'll be trying soon. I also have a project that will have me cutting a vile of Dupli-Color touch up paint with lacquer thinner, and will see how  that works.

 

I'm not too crazy about the new formula Dupli-Color paints. They don't seem to work as well as they should, and on one car, I've had a devil of a time getting a good paint job, and this is with repeated cleaning, sanding, etc. I'm going to try decanting the paint and airbrushing it to see if that works as an experiment to see if it's more the paint or more the nozzle (their nozzles are AWFUL).

 

I've also used Krylon products for certain things. You must prime very thoroughly, but the results are good if you're careful and use light coats, as the solvents are strong, which is why it dries so fast.

 

As to airbrushing I highly recommend giving it a shot. I have a Paasche H, which is a nice, all-metal, American-made airbrush that works well. Make sure to get at least two bottles (1 and 3 oz) for big jobs. Harbor Freight usually has a decent deal on small "pancake" compressors with regulators that will provide plenty of air.

 

Seriously, if you can use a rattle-can, you can airbrush. Use some of the extra bodies and other stuff you have to practice on.

 

Good luck!

 

Charlie Larkin

Good post, Charlie.

 

I have found it nearly impossible to spray light, mist coats straight from a can of Testors lacquers.  The problem is their paint is too thick, which requires lots of pressure to be expelled from the can.  Goes on thick, with lots of orange peel and the occasional trapped air bubbles from propellant.  Decanted, thinned and airbrushed, its a whole new ball game.  I thin this paint with Gunze Mr. Color thinner, which is more "styrene friendly" than hardware store or automotive lacquer thinners.  I'm thinning it approximately 2:1 thinner to paint and applying it at 20psi with a Paasche H with the largest (#5?) nozzle.  My 1971 Chevelle pictured below was painted with Testors Citrus Yellow Metallic lacquer and Wet Look Clear from the One Coat line.  Very little polishing was required to achieve this look.

DSCN1937-vi.jpg



#11 MitchP

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 01:53 PM

Hi Charlie & Marc:

 

I'm printing this thread to add to a 3 ring binder of material  for whom folks (Marcos Cruz, Donn Yost, etc) have conversed with me to help forge forward in the right direction. I've got about 8 kits stored up to hone my efforts on right now. My desires were so creatively expressed when I started looking at other folk's detailing. My 1st actual model was a JJ Vega flopper that I quickly added a homemade fuel system and a mag/ignition wire setup to win a blue ribbon at our local fair (yea, we're really rural). The paint was actually not bad as it was summer and I started with Tamiya fine white and one of those Testors "hot" metalflake One Shot colors. I was able to shoot everything outside as it was summer.

 

As the weather has gotten sporadically rainy and cooler over the past 2 months, I've struggled with this Nova. Due to disabilities, I only get about a quarter of my salary from 5 years ago when I was a systems analyst. As you can imagine, that leaves little for a sprayer setup, much less the necessary paint booth for safetie's sake. So sadly, for now I must use rattle cans and yes I have been using those large flaked, custom colors.

 

I'm more than happy to switch to any stable primer resembling Tamiya's properties since it's a bit expensive. As for the base paint, again whatever either of you could recommend which would be an easy rattle can product. It doesn't even have to be metallic as long as I can either clear or polish it to a nice shine. Marc - you say you shot your Cjhevelle with a Testor's metallic laquer? Did you also spray an extra coat of dull to cut some of the flakes down? Mine are HUGE  compared to yours! I'[m going to try to insert 3 pics of my body in this post.

 

P.S. - I was able to take the plunge this afternoon and wet sand the dust specs and the fisheye areas after some advice from a fellow hobbyist. After washing and drying, I shot a light coat, just enough to cover the few areas of primer that were revealed and prepare for the 2nd and final wetcoat. The mistcoat went on fine, I waited 20 mins. and then shot the final wetcoat. I actually got brave and shot it a little closer and heavier than the 1st wetcoat as I saw it appeared to be covering the fisheye areas which I didn't think it would. It's now drying for the next 5-6 days and after that, I intend to use a polishing system on it. I don't believe at this point I can safely shoot any clear because of how long it's been between coats.

 

TMI!!! Thanks to everyone who helped me get this far. I'd really like a basic, fairly predictable system for a few kits so I can concentrate on my true passion in this hobby which is detailing!

 

Attached File  nova driver side.jpg   79.46KB   0 downloads

Attached File  nova passenger side.jpg   99.45KB   0 downloads

Attached File  nova rear image.jpg   89.48KB   0 downloads

 

 

 



#12 Marc @ MPC Motorsports

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:03 PM

Hi Charlie & Marc:

 

I'm printing this thread to add to a 3 ring binder of material  for whom folks (Marcos Cruz, Donn Yost, etc) have conversed with me to help forge forward in the right direction. I've got about 8 kits stored up to hone my efforts on right now. My desires were so creatively expressed when I started looking at other folk's detailing. My 1st actual model was a JJ Vega flopper that I quickly added a homemade fuel system and a mag/ignition wire setup to win a blue ribbon at our local fair (yea, we're really rural). The paint was actually not bad as it was summer and I started with Tamiya fine white and one of those Testors "hot" metalflake One Shot colors. I was able to shoot everything outside as it was summer.

 

As the weather has gotten sporadically rainy and cooler over the past 2 months, I've struggled with this Nova. Due to disabilities, I only get about a quarter of my salary from 5 years ago when I was a systems analyst. As you can imagine, that leaves little for a sprayer setup, much less the necessary paint booth for safetie's sake. So sadly, for now I must use rattle cans and yes I have been using those large flaked, custom colors.

 

I'm more than happy to switch to any stable primer resembling Tamiya's properties since it's a bit expensive. As for the base paint, again whatever either of you could recommend which would be an easy rattle can product. It doesn't even have to be metallic as long as I can either clear or polish it to a nice shine. Marc - you say you shot your Cjhevelle with a Testor's metallic laquer? Did you also spray an extra coat of dull to cut some of the flakes down? Mine are HUGE  compared to yours! I'[m going to try to insert 3 pics of my body in this post.

 

P.S. - I was able to take the plunge this afternoon and wet sand the dust specs and the fisheye areas after some advice from a fellow hobbyist. After washing and drying, I shot a light coat, just enough to cover the few areas of primer that were revealed and prepare for the 2nd and final wetcoat. The mistcoat went on fine, I waited 20 mins. and then shot the final wetcoat. I actually got brave and shot it a little closer and heavier than the 1st wetcoat as I saw it appeared to be covering the fisheye areas which I didn't think it would. It's now drying for the next 5-6 days and after that, I intend to use a polishing system on it. I don't believe at this point I can safely shoot any clear because of how long it's been between coats.

 

TMI!!! Thanks to everyone who helped me get this far. I'd really like a basic, fairly predictable system for a few kits so I can concentrate on my true passion in this hobby which is detailing!

 

 

 

 

Mitch, I have found that clear coat and polishing helps to diminish the heaviness of the flake in the Testors paints.  If you aren't doing so already, I recommend pre-heating the cans in hot tap water before you spray.  I run hot tap water, hold the can under the water for a few seconds.  Shake the can, feel the can cool from the paint inside.  Repeat until you don't feel the can cool as you shake it.  This helps the paint flow better from the can.  Good luck with your paint work!



#13 charlie8575

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:48 PM

Mark did remind me of that....warmed cans make a huge difference, and that's for any type of paint. You'll notice you'll get a lot smoother paint job, and because of the increased pressure in the can, you'll actually get more of the paint itself out of the can, helping stretch your budget for paint a little.

 

I also hear you loud and clear about being on a limited budget. A basic airbrush, however, doesn't have to be expensive. Even a Badger 250 (about $25) is a great starting point and for most of the work car modelers do, is actually a pretty decent choice. I would recommend a compressor, however (seriously the Harbor Freight product is a good idea- useful for inflating tires, blowing out gutters, etc.), and the appropriate coupling. Essentially, for about $80, you're up and running. The HF airbrushes aren't that great, spend the extra ten bucks for the Badger.

 

For a spray booth, use either a cardboard box or a big plastic tub, like a Sterilite or similar product. If you can, try to attach a ducting to the box to vent the fumes. Worst case, point a box-fan so that it blows out a door or window. Some ventilation is better than none.

 

Basically, for a small upfront investment, you'll have many years of enjoyment from your tools.

 

I think you're on the right track, Mitch, and it'll improve as you get back into things.

 

Charlie Larkin



#14 Skydime

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:21 PM

I absolutely swear by Testors One Coat.  The metallic may be a little big but, lets be honest, what are you gonna get in a metallic that isn't on a model kit.  There honestly isn't much I can say here that hasn't been told.  I just get far back enough so as to dust coat and go really fast with it.  But I make sure not to go so far back as to leave that overspray film instead of a dusting of paint.  I do that for about three layers within 10 minutes of each other, out in the sun.  Then I wait about 20 and spray just enough of a SLIGHTLY wet coat to cover it.  Afterward, I proceed with wet look clear.

 

The decanting and airbrush method are viable as well.  I haven't had time to assemble everything and try it but, I think my wife caught my air compressor on sale for $50 at Harbor Freight and I caught my airbrush there for like $9.  So, all in all, a very cheap purchase.

 

Testors also makes some Model Master paints (correct me if I am wrong on the line guys) that are lacquor and have no metallic.  I used the Mango on a body dropped F250 with tons of body mods and gray Duplicolor primer with no issues.  I just took this picture while working on it but, you get the idea.  (actually decaling, hence the two raised spots)

Attached Files


Edited by Skydime, 01 October 2013 - 07:23 PM.


#15 cchapman195

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

I have heard a few people mention mixing the different mixtures has caused the same problem. From what I have understood if you use one coat lacquer wet look clear it needs to be over a wet coat color. Wet coat over a lacquer color for some reason have caused this effect you are dealing with. Again a few people have mentioned it and I have yet to try any of the testors rattle can paints since I use an airbrush. May be something to look at and research.



#16 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 11:44 AM

Maybe I've just been very very lucky...but I just don't seem to have any issues with Testors One Coat lacquers, other than the huge bass-boat flake.

 

I've put this model up a bazillion times to illustrate what Testors rattle-can paint can look like, with no colorsanding (clear-sanding actually) or polishing done when these photos were shot.

 

DSCN5579.jpg

 

After the top-chop and bodywork were completed, I scrubbed the model with Comet, hot water and an old toothbrush. The model was then primered with Duplicolor High-Build gray primer, 3 coats, allowed to dry THOROUGHLY, wetsanded with 600 or 800 grit to level the surface and block out any orange peel or panel waviness. Primered again the same way, wetsanded again the same way. Final-primered with Duplicolor Sandable white, two medium wet coats to encourage flow. Wetsanded with 1000 or 1200, than cleaned with 70% isopropyl alcohol (which removes any surface contaminants that might cause fisheyes).

 

Color was applied in one medium wet coat, allowed to flash off (when I checked the surface carefully for any bodywork flaws, scratches, etc.) followed by 3 coats shot full wet, allowed to flash in between coats. MINOR surface trash was sanded out wet with 1500 grit, then a final full wet flow coat was shot to even out the flake over the lightly sanded areas. 5 coats total to get full hiding and color depth (the "One Coat" name is bull).

 

Testors Wet Look clear was shot about 2 hours after the last color coat. Again, one medium wet coat, and two full-wet coats, being VERY careful to get it wet enough to flow, but not to run. This is the as-sprayed finish...you can see a very small amount of orange peel if you look closely.

 

PS. This was also painted in my breakfast room, with no fancy booth. Lacquers make a dry dust over everything when sprayed, so I put old sheets on the furniture. That's it. I held the body of the car in one gloved hand and rotated it, while spraying with the other.


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 31 October 2013 - 12:35 PM.


#17 scalenut

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

one trick to these paints is to back off with the can ...way off ... they can not be sprayed as close as most spray can paints .. once I figured this out the  results improved  considerably... 



#18 shucky

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:26 AM

Lots of good info here. I've had no issues either with the one coat stuff, spraying it in a similar fashion as Bill mentions above. I do not do "mist" coats with this stuff, its too thick for that. I also always use DC high build primer sanded with no more than 1000 grit. For the one coat stuff, I just go for it laying down nice medium wet coats to get good coverage. I literally wait a matter of minutes to re-coat, not 10 or 20. Maybe 2-3 minutes your good to go. No fish eyes, no runs, and no orange peel.  I also like laying down dupli color clear in 5-6 coats followed by "one coat" wet look clear. I have had no issue laying one coat "wet look" clear over dupli color clear. It also rubs out to a glass like finish this way. 



#19 sjordan2

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:45 AM

Has anyone tried rattle can clear pearl over color? If so, what are the results?

#20 randx0

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:46 AM

Has anyone tried rattle can clear pearl over color? If so, what are the results?

I used it to go over some flat military colors trying to get a more realistic "factory" looking color but it comes out a little to pearly . Think frosted.