Testors MM Custom Lacquer System, chipping/durability???

[crowe-t]

Yesterday I sprayed Testors MM Custom Lacquer System(color coat) paint on some chassis parts and under a hood.  I'll finish the body in a few days.

I decanted it and sprayed it with my airbrush.  Today I noticed it chipped easily.  

Could this be happening since the clear coat isn't applied yet or since it isn't fully cured?  

I know this is a 2 part system.

Edited January 30, 2016 by crowe-t

[Snake45]

I've never had any such problems with it. I suspect you either had some kind of contamination on your plastic, or something about your decanting/airbrushing procedure didn't agree with it.

[fseva]

Yesterday I sprayed Testors MM Custom Lacquer System(color coat) paint on some chassis parts and under a hood.  I'll finish the body in a few days.

I decanted it and sprayed it with my airbrush.  Today I noticed it chipped easily.  

Could this be happening since the clear coat isn't applied yet or since it isn't fully cured?  

I know this is a 2 part system.

How did you know it was "chipping"?

[crowe-t]

When I grabbed the chassis my nail grabbed an edge and the paint scrapped off.  

Could it be that it needs to cure longer and the clear coat needs to be applied?

I sprayed the paint into a spare bottle after shaking the can and poured it into my airbrush cup.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Did you shoot it over bare plastic? That's possibly part of the problem.

If so, did you thoroughly scuff the plastic (with something like Comet and a toothbrush) to get good adhesion?

If you didn't, that's also part of your problem.

And like ANY two-stage paint system (like we use on real cars) the full performance of the product isn't achieved UNLESS you use the clear topcoat.

These basecoats are simply more fragile than paints designed to be topcoats. Period.

[crowe-t]

I sprayed it over Tamiya Fine Surface Primer that was sanded before applying the Testors Lacquer.

I did decant it and spray it through my airbrush.  Its sprayed on very thin.  

Could it be I overcompensated with the airbrush and it needs a few more coats?

The funny thing is I have a small sample I had sprayed a while ago onto a piece of scrap plastic thats pretty durable.  I had sprayed (the color) right out of the spray can onto bare plastic to make a quick color chip.  I never sprayed any clear coat on top and it's very durable. 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Well then. All those things taken into consideration, the logical conclusions would seem to be:

1) Any paint is going to be more apt to chip on a sharp edge, as you mentioned it did in the fourth post above.

2) As you suspect, you may not have applied enough paint on the frame for it to develop full "film strength".

3) As you also already suspect, it may simply need to dry longer to develop the "toughness" you've seen previously.

Pretty much impossible to draw any other conclusions.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[crowe-t]

Thanks Bill for the advice!  I guess I'll spray some more on and see how it is with the clear coat applied.  

I'm using the airbrush to keep it thinner but I might have overcompensated.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I have noticed the propensity for the Testors lacquers to be more easily chipped than other lacquers.

I've had examples where after the kit is finished and has sat for a few weeks, a tight fitting hood or the like would pull a chip from the adjacent fender edge or from the hood itself.

I attributed it to the fact that the Testors lacquers seem to cure much slower than other automotive type lacquers & if the parts are touching before completely cured, they can actually "stick" together & pull paint off one of the edges when separated.

I'm not entirely sure how long these lacquers take to cure, but I've had strange things happen to them weeks after application like cracking or dulling much later after a satisfactory polish was already achieved.

Testors lacquers are a very different paint than an automotive lacquer, (not as hot) so I've concluded that one of the properties of it is a much slower cure time.

It's probably not a bad idea to finish all coats, including clear, & then let it cure for a month or so before proceeding with any polishing or assembly of the body parts.

Just my observation of course.

 

Steve

[crowe-t]

Thanks for that information Steve!

I have some decals to apply and will be spraying the clear Testors Ultra Gloss Coat over the decals.

Should I spray the clear on before applying the decals and then spray some more clear on top of the decals?

Or will the decals be OK to apply to the color coat(before decals are applied)?

Mike.

[crowe-t]

I sprayed the body today with the Testors Custom Lacquer using an airbrush.  It has a slight texture.

Is the texture OK?

After I spray on the Testors Ultra Gloss Clear I will be polishing the body.

Should I not polish the color coat?

Will the clear coat smooth it out?

Mike.

[fseva]

I sprayed the body today with the Testors Custom Lacquer using an airbrush.  It has a slight texture.

Is the texture OK?

After I spray on the Testors Ultra Gloss Clear I will be polishing the body.

Should I not polish the color coat?

Will the clear coat smooth it out?

Mike.

Mike, there are no "solids" in custom lacquer that could give a factory-planned texture to the paint. I suspect that you may have applied too much paint and perhaps got some "orange peel" in the finish. If so, sand it out and try again. Any additional thoughts about this will be based on your explanation of the "texture" you're seeing...

[StevenGuthmiller]

Thanks for that information Steve!

I have some decals to apply and will be spraying the clear Testors Ultra Gloss Coat over the decals.

Should I spray the clear on before applying the decals and then spray some more clear on top of the decals?

Or will the decals be OK to apply to the color coat(before decals are applied)?

Mike.

You should be able to do it either way Mike.

 

Steve

[crowe-t]

Mike, there are no "solids" in custom lacquer that could give a factory-planned texture to the paint. I suspect that you may have applied too much paint and perhaps got some "orange peel" in the finish. If so, sand it out and try again. Any additional thoughts about this will be based on your explanation of the "texture" you're seeing...

It's not exactly an orange peel texture.  It has a rough look to it.

Is this how the Testors Lacquer color coat looks?

I know I have to spray the Ultra Gloss Clear Coat on top and I'll be polishing that with Micro Mesh cloths. 

This is my first time using the Testor Custom Lacquer System.  I used an airbrush to spray on the color coat and will most likely just spray the Ultra Gloss Clear straight from the can.  It was too much trouble decanting and using the airbrush in my apartment.  I'll spray the clear outside.

Edited January 30, 2016 by crowe-t

[StevenGuthmiller]

I sprayed the body today with the Testors Custom Lacquer using an airbrush.  It has a slight texture.

Is the texture OK?

After I spray on the Testors Ultra Gloss Clear I will be polishing the body.

Should I not polish the color coat?

Will the clear coat smooth it out?

Mike.

If your paint is a metallic color, I wouldn't polish the color coats.

Polishing metallic paints can actually "smear" the metal flakes around causing inconsistencies in the finish.

If your orange peel is very fine, clear coats may level that out depending on how many coats you apply.

I almost always have some orange peel in my color coats but by the time I'm finished clearcoating, it usually smooths things out pretty well.

Mind you, I usually use as many as 4 or 5 clear coats.

Each consecutive coat will level it out a little more.

The rest can be polished out.

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

It's not exactly an orange peel texture.  It has a rough look to it.

Is this how the Testors Lacquer color coat looks?

I know I have to spray the Ultra Gloss Clear Coat on top and I'll be polishing that with Micro Mesh cloths. 

That "roughness" was most likely caused by spraying too light or too far from the body.

A little closer & a little wetter coats will most likely yield a smoother result.

 

Steve

[crowe-t]

Steve,  It's a slight rough texture.  I though using the airbrush would have made the paint lay down smooth but that wasn't the case.  

I used a non-metallic.  Maybe in a week I'll polish it with the Micromesh cloths a bit before applying the clear.

[crowe-t]

That "roughness" was most likely caused by spraying too light or too far from the body.

A little closer & a little wetter coats will most likely yield a smoother result.

 

Steve

You live and you learn, saying goes.  Overall the finish isn't too bad.  The clear will hopefully fix it.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Mike, there are no "solids" in custom lacquer...

Well, actually, there are. All paints are made up of finely-ground solids suspended in a liquid binder-carrier.

Even clear. Observe...          http://us.ppgrefinish.com/getmedia/E0A138DC-DC72-42C5-B523-6B9F1F9277E5/04/ob02_mc161-high_solids_urethane_clear-9-12.pdf

[StevenGuthmiller]

You live and you learn, saying goes.  Overall the finish isn't too bad.  The clear will hopefully fix it.

Actually Mike, it's much easier to get that "sand paper" finish with an airbrush than a spray can.

Rattle cans will generally spray a larger volume of paint than an airbrush diminishing the tendency to get that grainy texture.

I've had the same problem on occasion & the remedy for me was just to open the paint flow a little bit & get the brush a little closer to the body when spraying.

Remember, the clear is just a colorless lacquer.

It will do the same thing as the color if you spray it the same way.

I have found that the clear will shrink up & level out a little better than the paint, but it can still do the same sort of thing.

Just to put your mind at ease, I have had paint jobs start with a little of that "graininess" that still turned out well with clear coats & polishing.

I remember having some of that happen on the hood & trunk lid of my '60 Fury, but in the end, it turned out fine.

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

You can trust Steve Guthmiller's advice. He consistently turns out knockout builds like the one above. The proof, as they say, is in the finished product...

[crowe-t]

Thanks so much for all the great advice Steve and Bill.  I was under the assumption that using an airbrush was the better way to go.  I did take another look at the body and the sand paper finish isn't as bad as I had thought.  It's there but I'm sure with a few coats of clear, from the spray can this time, and polishing should fix the graininess.  

Steve, you really did put my mind at ease.  Your '60 Fury is beautiful!

Thanks,

Mike.

Edited January 31, 2016 by crowe-t

[fseva]

It's not exactly an orange peel texture.  It has a rough look to it.

Is this how the Testors Lacquer color coat looks?

I know I have to spray the Ultra Gloss Clear Coat on top and I'll be polishing that with Micro Mesh cloths. 

This is my first time using the Testor Custom Lacquer System.  I used an airbrush to spray on the color coat and will most likely just spray the Ultra Gloss Clear straight from the can.  It was too much trouble decanting and using the airbrush in my apartment.  I'll spray the clear outside.

No, this is not the way custom lacquers work. You should identify and fix before clearing. Is it possible that you sprayed in one area too long? Or perhaps got premature drying by being too far away? Either way, you will want to get it off before continuing!

[crowe-t]

This is my first time using the Testors Custom Lacquer System and I thought by airbrushing it would lay down nicer.  I sprayed even coats over the whole body and didn't stay on one area longer then any other.  I may have been spraying a bit too far for some of the earlier mist coats but I did move in closer with the airbrush for the wet coats.  It did airbrush nice and thin which is good.  The texture isn't too bad.  I might try polishing it a bit with the Micromesh cloths before applying the clear.  

Edited January 31, 2016 by crowe-t

[fseva]

Well, actually, there are. All paints are made up of finely-ground solids suspended in a liquid binder-carrier.

Even clear. Observe...          http://us.ppgrefinish.com/getmedia/E0A138DC-DC72-42C5-B523-6B9F1F9277E5/04/ob02_mc161-high_solids_urethane_clear-9-12.pdf

You didn't read all of my comment, Ace... I said that there are no solids... that are there for making a factory-planned texture!