Round2 reissues the '74 Road Runner kit for the umteenth time, SNUBS 71-72 Road Runner Kit once again!!! BOO!!!

[drksd4848]

Dearest Round2Corp,

I don't understand this... I mean I REALLY don't understand this.  Another '74 Road Runner retread?  COME ON!  Tooling, demand, cost, blah blah blah.  I don't buy it.  Somebody over there has it in for these kits.  *IF* they feel there is demand for the '74 kit, then why would they feel is ISN'T demand for the 71-72 kit?  I call bull...

Again, I don't get or buy their reasoning (more appropriately, I think they're full of BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH). Here's why:

- Tooling?  Or lack there of?  Revel has been selling the '71 GTX 1/24 kit for years.  They own Revel don't they?  Autoworld seems to have no problem constantly reissuing there 1:18 scale model '71 RR and GTX kit.  THEY HAVE THE TOOLING!!  Wrong scale? Make it a 1:24 kit! 

- Or how about this: BUY A <BLEEPING> 3D PRINTER!!!  Scale it down.  If regular people are able to make resin replicas of the Body, grille inserts and bumper/tail lights for the '72, how can they say they can't do it or don't have the tooling?!  Now-a-days, making things like this is a heck of a lot cheaper than it use to be.  Don't give me the cost excuse.

- Also, THEY HAVE three quarters of the kit ALREADY TO GO!!!  The interior pieces/engine/chassis from the '74 Road Runner or '71 Charger fit PERFECTLY!!  COST should NOT be an issue!!

NO MORE EXCUSES ROUND2!!  If you say, cost, tooling demand is an issue, but you can also reissue this kit out of the blue  you're lying to us.  Don't give us some boiler play lame response about "no plans at the present time"  PUT IT IN YOUR PLANS!! 

DO IT!  NOW!

Thank you for your time...  Enjoy your day.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by drksd4848

[Rob Hall]

2 minutes ago, drksd4848 said:

Here comes the rant:

I don't understand this... I mean I REALLY don't understand this.  Another '74 Road Runner retread?  COME ON!  Tooling, demand, cost, blah blah blah.  I don't buy it.  Somebody over there has it in for these kits.  *IF* they feel there is demand for the '74 kit, then why would they feel is ISN'T demand for the 71-72 kit?  I call bull...

Again, I don't get or buy their reasoning (more appropriately, I think they're full of BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH). Here's why:

- Tooling?  Or lack there of?  Revel has been selling the '71 GTX 1/24 kit for years.  They own Revel don't they?  Autoworld seems to have no problem constantly reissuing there 1:18 scale model '71 RR and GTX kit.  THEY HAVE THE TOOLING!!  Wrong scale? Make it a 1:24 kit!  

Huh?  Round 2 doesn't own Revell...presumably, the tooling for the MPC '71 is damaged or lost since it hasn't been reissued in over 30 years. 

[drksd4848]

You are correct, they own AMT, not Revell.  My mistake. I get the two confused. 

They do however, own Autoworld and Autoworld releases 71 B-bodies all the time.  I don't buy the damaged tooling excuse.  Again, if they have to retool stuff, the amount of retooling they'd have to do is minimal.  Hood, Body, Bumpers.  They have everything else.  If guys can produce resin versions on their own... 

Fix the tooling.  The demand is there.  I mean, seriously... where did the tooling for this kit come from?

Edited October 9, 2019 by drksd4848

[Jantrix]

2 hours ago, drksd4848 said:

- Tooling?  Or lack there of?  Revel has been selling the '71 GTX 1/24 kit for years.  They own Revel don't they?  Autoworld seems to have no problem constantly reissuing there 1:18 scale model '71 RR and GTX kit.  THEY HAVE THE TOOLING!!  Wrong scale? Make it a 1:24 kit! 

-COST should NOT be an issue!!

A rant from clear ignorance of the industry just makes you look bad. Not Round2. We have several members who have worked in the industry. Talking to them about the logistics of mold making would have been a good start for you. Cost is always THE issue. In ANY industry. It drives EVERY single detail. I cannot imagine that you don't comprehend that.

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Jantrix

[Rob Hall]

6 minutes ago, drksd4848 said:

You are correct, they own AMT, not Revell.  My mistake. I get the two confused. 

They do however, own Autoworld and Autoworld releases 71 B-bodies all the time.  I 

Those are Autoworld/ERTL 1/18th diecast.  Not 1/25th scale styrene kits.  Different reality. 

[Rob Hall]

7 minutes ago, drksd4848 said:

 Fix the tooling.  The demand is there.  I mean, seriously... where did the tooling for this kit come from?

That's the old MPC '80 Volare Road Runner tooling, which still exists like the MPC '74 Road Runner tooling.   The '71-72 tooling apparently is not in usable condition. 

[drksd4848]

4 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

That's the old MPC '80 Volare Road Runner tooling, which still exists like the MPC '74 Road Runner tooling.   The '71-72 tooling apparently is not in usable condition. 

OK, I won't flame throw this time... I'm just going to ask a question:

Are ALL of the kits they release based on tooling that has already existed?  They don't make/create (or in this case, repair) original tooling?

Edited October 9, 2019 by drksd4848

[Rob Hall]

1 hour ago, drksd4848 said:

OK, I won't flame throw this time... I'm just going to ask a question:

Are ALL of the kits they release based on tooling that has already existed?  They don't make/create (or in this case, repair) original tooling?

With Round 2 that is pretty much the case.  Occasionally they tool up a new kit, like the 2016 Camaro a few years ago.    But by and large, Round 2's business model is reissuing old kits in new box art, with new decals, sometimes new pad-printed tires, and occasionally new parts (like the surf racks in the '65 Chevelle 'Surf Wagon' kit).   They do sometimes retool missing parts, like with the '63 Impala firewall, etc.    Apparently, bringing back the '71 Road Runner kit is not cost-effective...I'm sure they know the cost involved. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Rob Hall

[Dave Van]

I did a lot of work, and continue to, for Model King. This meant we work with the old RC2, previous owner of the AMT tooling, and with the current R2. 

HOW I wish it was as easy as just getting buckets of cash from the back room and tooling a 71-72 Road Runner kit.  We covered this in general about a week ago about how the market has changed so much that the fact we get anything is amazing. I used Charlotte NC as an example as we had a hobby shop there. Charlotte had 5 hobby shops that carried plastic model cars. At the time K Mart, WalMart and a number of other chains did so also. On a weekly basis we order model kits in CASE quantities. So in 1990 There were around TEN outlets in Charlotte that sold plastic. Today they have ZERO in Mecklenburg county....ZERO. The city with the forth fastest growing economy in the USA can not support a hobby shop! And this is happening in every state and all over the world. How can anyone expect the same output from a company who's market has changed so radically?? 

One way to prove them wrong. Get the cash and manufacture the kit!!! I have friends that can do the design work, molders and packaging guys!! I'll even give all graphics design work for FREE!!! Thanks

[drksd4848]

31 minutes ago, Dave Van said:

One way to prove them wrong. Get the cash and manufacture the kit!!! I have friends that can do the design work, molders and packaging guys!! I'll even give all graphics design work for FREE!!! Thanks

Ya know....  Since you mention it...  Call me crazy - and everyone here certainly has a right to -  but if someone from Round2Corp  could chime in with a figure of much it would actually cost to repair the tooling for that kit...

I swear I'll put up a gofundme page for it.  No joke. Businesses do it all the time, but I'll do it for them.  Hey, If the gofundme page flounders, they they were right.  Mia culpa.  I just don't think it will though.  My hunch.

I've wanted that '72 kit since I was five years old.  And it's a crime that it hasn;t been reissued.

In fact, I WILL BUY an original (which go for hundreds of dollars) and DONATE IT TO THEM, to help get it done.  (Obviously, they'll need more than just a donor kit)

Edited October 9, 2019 by drksd4848

[Dave Van]

That has been done in the past. Model King paid to repair a number of kits. He even cloned the complete chrome tree for the 59 Imperial kit. 

But when the group headed by Tom Lowe took over they ended all private involvement in the company. This was JUST A BUSINESS decision and not a slam on them. So I kinda figure your offer will not go far....but contact them with it ....I never say never when it comes to plastic! 

[wku88]

Both stock and the Petty NASCAR version? I'd be in for some.

[StevenGuthmiller]

51 minutes ago, drksd4848 said:

Are ALL of the kits they release based on tooling that has already existed?

That's pretty much why the company is called "Round 2".

They acquired what was left of the molds from AMT, MPC, Lindberg, etc, and basically are making a living off of re-popping old kits.

As far as I know, there have been no entirely new molds produced by Round 2 to date, except for the occasional added or revamped parts.

 

I see these arguments about how simple it should be to resurrect old kits and produce brand new ones all of the time.

You need to understand that it's not that simple.

Producing new molds is exorbitantly expensive and if you are planning on generating one, you had better have your ducks in a row and have a very good indication of what is going to sell, and in today's market, it better be able to be offered in several variants, or you're gonna lose your *ss!!

 

Reviving old kits if the molds are still intact is much easier, but some people seem to think that every mold ever made is just laying around somewhere waiting to be implemented again.

We could only wish!

The vast majority of these old molds were changed with each successive model year, so when you are looking at the Round 2 1974 Road Runner kit, you are undoubtedly looking at what became of the '71, '72 and '73 molds.

They are one in the same modified over time to become the '74.

You should consider yourself lucky to have the '74 as a lot of these old kits eventually took the next step of being converted into a modified stocker or funny car losing a good majority of the original stock parts completely.

 

Likewise, a lot of these molds have either been lost or destroyed over the years.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Rob Hall]

4 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

That's pretty much why the company is called "Round 2".

They acquired what was left of the molds from AMT, MPC, Lindberg, etc, and basically are making a living off of re-popping old kits.

As far as I know, there have been no entirely new molds produced by Round 2 to date, except for the occasional added or revamped parts.

 

The 2016 Camaro and its variations was a new tool.    I believe the name 'Round 2' is a reference to it being Tom Lowe's second hobby venture after Playing Mantis (which resurrected the Johnny Lightning diecast brand in the early 90s). 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Rob Hall

[drksd4848]

27 minutes ago, Dave Van said:

That has been done in the past. Model King paid to repair a number of kits. He even cloned the complete chrome tree for the 59 Imperial kit. 

But when the group headed by Tom Lowe took over they ended all private involvement in the company.

That is deflating.  I'd contact them, the challenge would be figuring out a way to get around the corporate stonewall boiler plate, cut and paste answer "not in our plans, etc but we will consider it"...

Do Round2Corp people read this forum?

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 minute ago, Rob Hall said:

The 2015 Camaro and its variations was a new tool.

Okay, I stand corrected.

Apparently they have the ability to produce new kits.

At least one!

 

3 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

I believe the name 'Round 2' is a reference to Tom Lowe's second hobby venture after Playing Mantis (which resurrected the Johnny Lightning diecast brand in the early 90s).

Makes perfect sense.

It always made sense to me that the Round 2 name could just as easily refer to the fact that the kits that they are offering are re-popped originals.

 

 

Regardless, for the sake of this discussion, I think it's pretty unlikely that there are going to be any re-pops of the original MPC '71-'73 Road Runners.

I would be extremely surprised if those molds are not pumping out '74s as we speak.

 

 

Steve

[stavanzer]

Walt, Dave Van can answer your last question better than I, but everything Dave, Tim Boyd, Mark B. and others have said indicate that while the Companies seldom (if ever) comment, they are aware of and sometime read directly comments, on these modeling forums. But all Model Companies are 'Market Driven' and "Model Forum Commenters", do not represent much of the market sadly. So, While they may be aware of us(collectively) we don't pack much influence.

So What to do? I'd recommend just saving up and buying an original kit. Glue-bombs can be had at less than nose-bleed prices, and you can save up all year and by a mint(ish) kit for X-mas. I have now done that for a couple of kits, and will be starting a Fund for my Monogram Landrover next year. $20.00 bucks a month, and I'll have the $80.00 to $100.00 for the kit by Thanks Giving. A worthy goal.

Edited October 9, 2019 by alexis
grammar

[drksd4848]

32 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

The 2015 Camaro and its variations was a new tool.    I believe the name 'Round 2' is a reference to Tom Lowe's second hobby venture after Playing Mantis (which resurrected the Johnny Lightning diecast brand in the early 90s). 

See, now that proves my point. 

They *COULD* do it, if they wanted to.  If they could tool that kit from scratch, they would certainly have the resources to - if not fix the damaged tooling - create new tooling to for a handful of parts. They don't even need to do the rest of the kit.  Everything else could be borrowed.  You can't tell me there is no demand. Nope.  Won't buy it.  If they are willing to reissue multiple Road Runners, then they obviously know there is a demand for the kits, or else, why bother?

I'm not an industry insider, but common sense tells me it would be far LESS expensive to make tooling for a few body parts, than it is to make a brand new Camaro kit. (bleh).  I'd bet the 71/72 RR kit would sell better.  A LOT better.

So, you can't tell me demand isn't there. It is. Again, cost?  If they are willing to make new kits, they have the money to make just FOUR TO FIVE body parts.  Hood, bumpers, grille inserts, body.  That's it. 

So, tooling, money, demand etc.  I aint buying it.  It's something else that goes beyond logistics/finances and common sense.

Edited October 9, 2019 by drksd4848

[StevenGuthmiller]

11 minutes ago, drksd4848 said:

That is deflating.  I'd contact them, the challenge would be figuring out a way to get around the corporate stonewall boiler plate, cut and paste answer "not in our plans, etc but we will consider it"...

Do Round2Corp people read this forum?

Let's put it this way.

You are going to be much more likely seeing a '71 Road Runner from Revell than from Round 2.......and I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

I'm not an aficionado of '71 Plymouths, but how much difference is there between the '71 Satellite and Road Runner?

The Monogram Satellite is not easy to find, but it is out there, and there are likely decals and PE sets available.

 

 

Steve

[Rob Hall]

I'd like to see the MPC '71 come back, but am not holding my breath.  I've bought a few on eBay over the last 15 years--the original MPC '71 Road Runner, the '87 reissue, the original MPC '71 GTX, and the original MPC '72 Road Runner..they are out there. 

[larman]

Not to be a wise a$$, but the last reissue of the MPC 1971 Roadrunner is not that hard to find, nor that expensive is it? I think they are around in the $30 to $50 range on line and probably a lot cheaper at shows. That translates to a little more than retail. There are tons of aftermarket parts, donor kits and decals for mopar stuff to make them better too. It sounds like you love the car and I get it, but it may just be easier to find what is out there. 

[drksd4848]

5 minutes ago, alexis said:

So What to do? I'd recommend just saving up and buying an original kit. Glue-bombs can be had at less than nose-bleed prices, and you can save up all year and by a mint(ish) kit for X-mas. I have now done that for a couple of kits, and will be starting a Fund for my Monogram Landrover next year. $20.00 bucks a month, and I'll have the $80.00 to $100.00 for the kit by Thanks Giving. A worthy goal.

Alan, it's not about me though.  It's the greater good (if that makes sense).  If it was about me, then sure, I'd just buy a kit. But I don't believe that. I want it out there. For everyone.   The corporate misinformation about why they're not just doesn't add up.  Someone in the company doesn't like the car and doesn't want it out there.  They could fix the issues if they wanted to, but they won't for reasons beyond...   

[drksd4848]

2 minutes ago, larman said:

Not to be a wise a$$, but the last reissue of the MPC 1971 Roadrunner is not that hard to find, nor that expensive is it? I think they are around in the $30 to $50 range on line and probably a lot cheaper at shows. That translates to a little more than retail. There are tons of aftermarket parts, donor kits and decals for mopar stuff to make them better too. It sounds like you love the car and I get it, but it may just be easier to find what is out there. 

Trust me Iarman, if it was about me, I'd buy it and be done with it.

[StevenGuthmiller]

Just now, larman said:

Not to be a wise a$$, but the last reissue of the MPC 1971 Roadrunner is not that hard to find, nor that expensive is it? I think they are around in the $30 to $50 range on line and probably a lot cheaper at shows. That translates to a little more than retail. There are tons of aftermarket parts, donor kits and decals for mopar stuff to make them better too. It sounds like you love the car and I get it, but it may just be easier to find what is out there. 

There are several on ebay right now.

Not cheap.

Looks like between $80.00 and $200.00!

 

 

Steve

 

[Dave Van]

31 minutes ago, drksd4848 said:

That is deflating.  I'd contact them, the challenge would be figuring out a way to get around the corporate stonewall boiler plate, cut and paste answer "not in our plans, etc but we will consider it"...

Do Round2Corp people read this forum?

Not sure about how much they read here......but there are not many folks at R2 and they tend to read and reply to e-mails. But if you make a offer to restore and you get a CORP answer it's there way of saying no in a polite way.....never know.