StevenGuthmiller

I've seen this kit, but forget the year. What year is it? Steve

I have my eye on about a dozen of these gauge sets. It's great that he produces some for some long gone vintage kits as well. I buy all of my license plates from him. They are the nicest I have seen! Steve

Hard to argue with Cragars! Steve

They do look good. I just really worry about long term. Especially when dealing with vintage kits. I really have no desire to redo any of them a few years down the road. I have far too many other ones to do. Keep us posted on how well they hold up. Steve

Such vitriol. Not trying to save face. Just stating a fact that I don't hate you, I don't know you and I don't remember any previous conversations with you. You seem to have a major issue with me though. But I can live with that. I'm happy that I can go through life without hating people. Steve

Ok, here comes the locking! Quote, "I'm actually an artist who was born with talent". Quote, "If you don't understand what this topic is about, then why are you here?" Quote, "Seems to me you think you know everything......EXCEPT art". Quote, "Must be nice being you.....treat yourself to a cookie" From your post yesterday at 12:59 PM. Maybe I took it wrong, but that all sounds a bit confrontational to me. Did I take a jab at our mods? I don't see it, but If so, I digress. Steve

I just want to let you know Dann that I have absolutely no animosity towards you whatsoever & never have. I don't even recall the previous discussion that you pointed out here. I have many discussions on this forum & have had countless disagreements with many members whom I consider good friends & they are friendly to me as well. I do not come here looking to make enemies & I cannot think of a single member here who I dislike, you included. Just because I may have disagreements with others in certain topics does not translate into me "disliking" anybody. If that were the case, I would hate every relative I have. Steve

Ok folks, I take complete responsibility for the thread in question being locked, but I will not apologize for it. When I joined the discussion, I was a little confused as to what we were supposed to be discussing. I am always under the impression that if a person starts a thread of this nature, he is looking for an "actual discussion" with apposing views & thoughts. Otherwise, what were we to expect? Six pages of "yeah, that's really bad box art, but this one's worse". That is exactly what was transpiring. When I originally joined the discussion, I merely stated that I didn't care what the box art looked like, it was the contents that mattered. It was the OP who responded with, "My posting was originally about good art, versus bad art", so it was the he who took the discussion in this direction & away from the box in question. Shouldn't the OP have the discretion to take "his" thread in the direction that he chooses? In response to his statement, I next declared that there could not be a resolution to that question as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and then legitimately questioned what direction the discussion was supposed to be heading. With that, I was basically told that I was talking to a "talented artist" & that my opinion was unwanted because, I guess I am unqualified to interject my thoughts? Furthermore, I was told that apparently "I think that I know everything" and that I should "treat myself to a cookie". I'm not sure about how others would deal with this aggression. Maybe just suck it up, put your tail between your legs & head for the exit? No, I will defend myself. I took that charge as a challenge to anyone who is not a "talented artist" to have any opinion as to what is art & what is not. I then proceeded to voice my opinion on the subject of art and artists in general without calling anybody any names and without questioning their intelligence to speak on the matter. You may also be interested to know that I ended that post with the statement that "maybe we should lighten up a little". "It's just a box". From there, the discussion seemed to begin to calm back down a bit, and while there was still discussion about art in general, the artwork in question was still the basis of the conversation. So, I guess that you could say that I'm still a little perplexed about why it needed to be locked. But that is not my call. That duty belongs to the moderators, and I guess I need to respect their efforts to keep things around here squeaky clean. I will conclude by saying that I frequent forums such as this one, not only for the camaraderie, the tips and tricks & the wonderful builds that I get to view, but also for some occasional mental stimulation. If every thread is going to be a nothing more than a statement followed by endless affirmations, I have little interest in conversing here. If there is to be no spirited exchanges, I might as well just pop in occasionally, look at a few pictures & go about my day. Let me reiterate, I will not apologize for my role in the locking of that thread, but I would like to offer in advance my wholehearted apology to Joe for getting this one locked! Steve

It's becoming that way with everything. I sent 2 emails in the past few months to George at Kustom Krome & have never received a response. Luckily I was able to find the information that I needed from him through other avenues because I don't even have a Facebook account. Steve

I didn't start this thread, but my guess is the subject is the "Bad Box Art" topic. Steve

I had this exact same discussion on another forum a few weeks ago. The argument was that the the thread had gone off topic! So I guess that we are supposed to be only be capable of dealing with one thought at a time? Have any of us ever been to a party where we sat drinking beer until the wee hours of the morning discussing one topic the entire time? It's only natural that a conversation will morph into other subjects. In this particular instance, the threads were not locked, they were being eliminated entirely! Excuse me, but eliminating an entire thread because the admin feels that it's not going in the correct direction is absolutely idiotic! It will interest me to see how long it takes for this "heretical" thread to be locked. Steve

I appreciate your definition of what art is, but who is to say that the person who did these kit box "illustrations" did not feel the same reverence for the what he was doing as what you feel for your art? He also may have been trying to "incite emotion" or "evoke a response". I don't think that any of us know who the "artist" was or what his thought patterns were when he designed these boxes. Did he fail? Possibly, but that doesn't mean that his attempt is any less worthy of being described as an artistic endeavor, just like the 32 million dollar painting above. For the record, I wouldn't give a plug nickle for either one, but I might be interested in spending a few bucks on one of the Flower Power kits for the contents. Steve

Maybe this one is better. It sold for 32.1 million dollars! Willem de Koonig's "Untitled VIII". I wonder why it's untitled? Steve

It is funny, but at the same time, it illustrates my point that virtually anything can be considered a "work of art". Galleries across the world are filled with this sort of garbage so that a bunch of self aggrandizing boobs can stand around sipping champagne & oohing and aahing and acting like they know something that the rest of the "troglodytes" do not. So this is respectable art, but the box art that this thread is about cannot be? I don't particularly care for this box art either, but to pretend that it's the worst thing I have ever seen is facetious at best. I'll admit that I'm no art critic & I don't even much care for what constitutes a work of art these days, but I don't much care whether a model kit comes in a Rembrandt influenced Fabrigege egg, or a plastic grocery bag. I purchase them to build them, not to put them on a shelf in a hermetically sealed room & analyze them. I think it's evident by the nature of the prices that these kits command these days that the box art holds little sway with the people who are buying them. Steve

I rest my case! Steve

Wow! I guess differing opinions are not acceptable in this topic! Sorry, I guess that I did not know that I was talking to a "talented artist", so I guess that means that us lowly dregs should have no opinion. Did I say I knew everything? I don't recall that. I likewise don't recall hurling insults at anyone. I only offer my opinions, which is what a forum is supposed to be for. The world is full of trash that masquerades as art & people sell it every day. Just because you consider yourself an artist does not make you the premiere authority on what constitutes a piece of art. Is this art? Or this? Maybe this one? I'll bet that all of these people think that they were "born with talent" as well! Do you know who I consider a talented artist? A Doctor who performs a triple bypass & saves a life. A master carpenter that can build a beautiful home that will last for generations. A scientist who makes daily advancements in cancer treatments. Maybe we should just lighten up a little. It's a model kit box for crying out loud! Thank you. I will wait patiently for the next barrage of denigration & disparagement. Steve

OK well, if this is "really" a discussion about "good art" versus "bad art", there will never be any consensus whatsoever. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder & one man's trash is another man's treasure. I believe that the general agreement is that this is considered pretty cool box art, but would this score much higher on the "good art" meter? Does it instill any more confidence as to what the vehicle is "supposed to be" or what the contents of the box are? I don't know what the purpose of the discussion is. Steve

I concur! Screw the box art! The contents are what matters! Do any of us really think that if Round 2 had the tooling for the '60 Mercury hardtop or the '60 Bonneville from this series, that nobody would buy them because of the box art? I can't count how many kits I have in my stash with photos of pretty badly built models on the box art. I would rather have something at least somewhat creative rather than just plain lazy! Steve

And the guy who ultimately pays $40.00 for that bumper may not necessarily feel as if he has overpaid, depending upon his needs. I personally will rarely pay more that $10.00 or $15.00 for a needed vintage part. For some, that may be overpaying. Another individual's threshold might be twice that. So, I guess my point is, criticizing a seller for being overpriced is really very objective. Steve

I have come out on the sweet end of some transactions on the forum as well! They say what goes around, comes around, and that works for the better as well on occasion. I have sent complete kits on a whim, and have received the same periodically. Steve

Maybe I should have been a little less flippant, but my point is that there seems to be this inherent hostility towards sellers because some feel that they are trying gouge them. But what is overpaying to a seller? Obviously there is no such thing for him. He is looking for top dollar, & there is no way that any of us can begrudge him that, regardless of whether he's selling model cars or real ones. I understand that every one of us has their threshold for what they are willing to pay, but what the part or kit is worth to someone who is willing to go higher is going to be the worth in the end. If a front bumper for a '66 Bonneville routinely goes for $20.00 & I feel that $10.00 is fair, I'm going to be going without a front bumper. So, if I decide that my only avenue is to suck it up & pay the $20.00, am I overpaying, or am I paying fair market price? Steve

I do exactly the same thing. I have given away just as many, or more, parts than I have traded for. If I'm not going to use something eventually, I see no point in not "paying it forward" to someone who can use it. I need someone to explain to me what "overpaying" is when it comes to vintage parts & kits. It's not exactly like there is a "Vintage Model Car Parts Walmart" to use for price comparison. Steve

That is the nice thing about auction sites like ebay. The item will sell for what someone will give for it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of Bozo's out there that somehow believe that they have some sort of say on what your items are worth. Something that might be worth $25.00 to you, might be worth $225.00 to the next guy. Guess which one determines what that item was worth. The guy who pays the most for it! If you believe that it's only worth $25.00..........you lose! Steve

Possibly, but those "ravaged" pieces are going towards completing another kit that would probably have never been built or enjoyed due to missing parts. So you could say it's pretty much a wash. The way that I see it, every one of those old rare vintage kits that were cut up and customized over the years are a total loss. Much more so than a kit that has been parted out. A great number of them will never be salvaged again. Steve

I don't know anything about this particular individual, but for those of us who build vintage kits, guys like this are a god send, especially in the "post Modelhaus" age! In some instances, price may be of little importance if you're in need of that all important part for a rare kit. $25.00-$30.00 for a body is not at all out of the realm of possibility depending on what you need. $20.00 for chrome parts or an interior is not out of line either. I would happily pay $30.00 for a clean AMT 1967 Ford Galaxie body or $20.00 for the bumpers from the same kit if I needed them. What are the options? Now, if your talking about prices like this for currently available kits, then all I can say is..........well, you've heard the whole fool and his money thing. I guess I just figure that they're his property. Who am I to tell him what he can or cannot do with them. Steve