Ace-Garageguy

Whoa baby. I recently finished the research to build one of these. Really looking forward to seeing yours come together.

It's rare. They've been trading for around $60-$100+. I'll take one.

Might suggest they call the Buick an Invicta instead of "Invocation" for a start...

I assume you're referring to the '39 Chebby chop. I'd caution against cutting the top lengthwise. Though some guys seem to feel it's necessary, I disagree for a couple of reasons. 1) It makes it a whole hell of a lot harder to get all the parts lined up. 2) It's far easier to bend the pillars out a little on the top section, and in a little on the bottom section. 3) Widening the top to align the pillars often spoils the subtle lines and proportions, resulting in a "flattop" looking car with a too-big turret section. Whatever you do, go slow, and really look at your work as you progress. I've found it to be VERY helpful to photograph modifications and look at them blown up on my monitor before making anything too final. You'll see things you might miss otherwise.

It's good to refer to what the real stuff looks like...and it does indeed look different depending on whether the magnesium substrate is a casting or machined from a forged billet...and how old and worn it is...and it's NOT sparkly like metallic paint... In the shots below, you can easily see how Dow7 looks very different when applied to a machined surface, and an as-cast surface right next to it.

That's exactly what I used for the orange '70 Chevelle above.

For what it's worth, a set of larger diameter wheels of the same design is available in this kit and its derivatives...

One of my top 10 favorite hot-rod models to date. They just don't often get it as right as this. Sweet.

What it really comes down to in the end is: how much do you care if your model could be easily done in the real world? A very cool model can be made in several different ways, just as a real car can. I built a "Beyond-Pro-Touring" Chevelle several years back, on a stretched C5-R frame, but using the Chevelle unibody floor to tie it all together (though the stock '70 Chevelle uses a full-frame, it depends heavily on the welded body structure to provide rigidity; though just the floor wouldn't provide much, the contest rules this was built for specified a minimum percentage of original kit content. so I had to use a big chunk of the Chevelle to qualify). What this represents is a road-racing car with what looks like a Chevelle body, and even this could be done in the real world.

This is a "full frame" chassis for the GEN II Camaro...basically a bolt-in front subframe (that replaces the factory subframe) with a bolt-in rear subframe that essentially doubles the rear hat-section frame rails that are integral with the stock unibody, both ends held together by integral "frame connectors" that clear the underside of the unibody floor. The Roadster Shop at the link provided by astroracer (pix are copy-protected) makes something similar for the GEN I Camaro. http://roadstershop.com/product/full-chassis/1967-69-camaro-spec-chassis/

Yeah, lotsa those "pro-built weathered" works of art on the popular auction site...

PS. I've been making louvered almost-scale-thickness panels based on kit parts for a while. Need to do some for '34 Fords now.

I wish I had a scale '69 Camaro here to look at, 'cause this is an interesting problem and has captured my interest. I suspect the front subframe under the model could be cleaned up to represent an aftermarket unit by removing all the stock suspension, filing the rails nice and smooth, and installing the front suspension arms and spindles from something like the AMT Phantom Vickie. Then back-half it with the section from the Nova, as Snake suggested.

The subframe shown above also just happens to fit '68-'74 Novas too. This is the Morrison "back half" that uses coil springs and a Ford 9" axle housing. "3-link", with a Watts link Same idea, but a triangulated 4-bar setup... And a further refinement, the ultimate independent setup...

I have no problem with "back halfing" on the Camaro. On the real car, it's not that terribly hard to cut a big gaping hole in the center of the rear of the car and re-frame the structure with rectangular tubing...and swapping in the tubbed Nova rear chassis on a model would fairly closely approximate the finished look. But remember to measure many times, cut once...just like doing it for real. Swapping an entire Nova chassis into a Camaro (in real life) is another thing entirely. Being a unibody, the rockers, floors, trans tunnel, rear quarters and firewall are all part of the "frame" and contribute a significant (like all of it) part of the structure to these cars. Cut the "frame" out, and you have a floppy mess trying to go every-which-way, and nothing lines up with anything else when you try to mate the "frame" to the body. It takes a huge amount of very highly skilled fabrication to swap a body from one unibody car to another. Is it possible? Yes. But a practical solution? No. On the other hand, saying you're going to hang a replica fiberglass Camaro body on a C5 or C6 frame (or something full-frame aftermarket like what Art Morrison builds) is well within the realm of real-world feasibility. It's not a job for the vast majority of builders, but it's easier than trying to restore structural integrity and correct panel fit to a cobbled-up unibody The most likely way somebody would build a real serious pro-touring Camaro would be a combination of "back-halfing" and a bolt-in front subframe with all trick suspension, again from Morrison.

This is a '36 Ford 5-window, which has a similar roofline, in the process of getting chopped. The basic procedure is outlined in this thread...

Thanks Bob. That adjustable front suicide mount is an idea I picked up from one incarnation of the old Cagle-Sanchez Bonneville Studebaker. They put a solid axle under the front to make it easily adjustable. You can just see the top of the mount sticking up in front of the blower in this shot.

Actually, because the Corvette is still a full-frame car, you could swap a '69 Camaro body on to it in the real-world. Lotsa work in 1:1, but entirely doable...and a lot easier on a model than modifying the stock Camaro chassis to take all the Corvette mechanicals. Late model Corvette kits (C5, C6) can be found pretty cheap too.

Actually, both AMT (on their truly ancient '32 Ford kits) and Revell did their homework reasonably well. When they measured things like length, wheel-well radius, and width, they got the same numbers. Remarkable. What this means is that the AMT bodies will also swap on to the Revell frames and vise-versa...with some work. AMT kinda dropped the ball on the cowl height for some reason, but with the above-mentioned work, the Victoria and Phaeton bodies from AMT (neither of these are available from Revell) will be compatible with Revell underpinnings.

I agree. The thing on that Fiat comp coupe is exactly what it'll be.

The frame I'm using is the tubular unit from the Revell Henry J. It's under a couple other Revell race cars, fits the body well, but is set up for entirely different suspension than what I want. I spent most of my life building full scale cars, so I try to get the engineering and period details right. The rear axle in place is to help locate new spring hangers and springs, which will be scratchbuilt. Lower axle is GM, probably a Chevy truck unit from a Willys gasser glue bomb. It's getting its housing widened ('cause the axle ends were buggered) and new spring pads scratchbuilt as well. All the crossmembers will be reworked to carry the engine and suspension correctly.. The shot below is several dropped tube front axles with varying amounts of drop. I'll do test mockups with each until I get the same stance as in the original mockup at the top, will locate the new front crossmember and spring perch, also to be scratchbuilt. Just like building full scale. Bottom axle is '37 Ford V8 60 that's getting pose-able steering for another build. I take a lot of time to get the stance and overall proportions I want in the beginning, then build backwards to get the final look I'm after. The shot below shows the chassis upside-down, with progress on the scratch-built leaf springs, crossmembers, push-bar, bracketry, etc. All that's left of the Henry J frame is the rails and engine mounts, and the mounts are going away. With the rear spring leaves tacked in, the spring perches for the axle can get put in the right place, and pinion angle gets ballparked.... Photo below shows the rear axle with new spring mounts...and front of frame is pinched to get width same as grille / hood, new front crossmember and adjustable suicide-style front spring mount. This is a dual purpose dry-lakes and drag car, so the ability to make major adjustments to ride height and angle-of-attack is necessary. Rear height adjusts with shackles. Below, suspension is tacked in place to check stance again. Engine mounts are in, setback of engine requires stock firewall removed, new one to be scratch built. DeSoto hemi just barely clears extremely pinched frame rails, starter housing is only real problem, and just misses right rail. LaSalle transmission from Revell Miss Deal Studebaker is just visible behind engine.

The body is from either of these AMT kits...

I've always wondered...if the site has to use ads to help support it financially (which I block), why aren't they specifically targeted to modelers (which I wouldn't block)? I understand it's harder to develop a targeted advertising market setup on a website, but I wouldn't mind seeing new-release info and product listings HERE directly from the manufacturers (instead of through the back-channels that disseminate the same info anyway).

If you were building a real car, because the Camaro is a unibody, a full chassis swap isn't a very realistic option. Typically, a real car built in this genre would get front suspension swapped out with something tubular to replace the stamped control arms, and big disc brakes. Upgraded rear suspension could be as simple as a Ford 9" with more sophisticated locating (a Panhard bar, some kind of traction bars to limit spring windup, and a big anti-roll bar) all the way to a complete IRS and transaxle swap from something like a late-model Corvette.

This man has some very valid points.