GMC C6500

[Chuck Most]

If you want to use the warped parts to your advantage and do it as a very high-mileage beater, here are a few pics I took of one at a demolition site a few years ago-

http://public.fotki.com/ChuckMost/truck-photos/gmc-box-van/

[Arnd]

Hi guys

thanks alot for all of your answears. It isgrate to read that you like this littel ugly duck. As for the engine I did some resarch but I think that the Cat engine was only used in the Top Kick versions were the cab was a bit higher and the hood was of a different shape. The most offen engine I found searching the internet is the 8.2, it is a DD but not two stroke. I do not know if I will really want to start scratch building a complete engine.

But just as an idea, beeing repowered with an DD 6v-71 would this be realistic?

so long

Arnd

[Superpeterbilt]

But just as an idea, beeing repowered with an DD 6v-71 would this be realistic?

so long

Arnd

Anything can happen. As in the 1:1 world, if it fits, itll work! I know the GMC 9500 had the 6-71, and I know the Briggaderes had them, so why not a 6500 repower?

[gatorincebu]

Arnd,

You are building a really good model. here. And I understand and appreciate you desire to build anaccurate replica.

But I will say this. First I agree with Terry. In the real world anything can happen! So even though this truck was not offered

with a particular motor. It is entirely possible. That the truck had a different motor installed, either when new or repowered later on.

But I also know this.Whatever motor you deicde to go with. It will be a work of art in and of itself.

Be Well

Gator

[Arnd]

Hallo guys

Tanks a lot for all your answears.

I decided to power this littel girl with an DD 6-92t which is as I read a quite offen used engine in trucks loader and powerunits. I have a mold from my 6v-71which I used for my mack. I will cast that engine and rework the valve covers and add a turbo kit. I think there are no mote difference between this two engines. If I am wrong please correct me. I think to use the first transmission from the alaskan hauler. It has this doble transmission with the short drive shaft between it. What type of transmission is this exactly? 5 or 8 speed?

So long

Arnd

[guitarsam326]

Hallo guys

Tanks a lot for all your answears.

I decided to power this littel girl with an DD 6-92t which is as I read a quite offen used engine in trucks loader and powerunits. I have a mold from my 6v-71which I used for my mack. I will cast that engine and rework the valve covers and add a turbo kit. I think there are no mote difference between this two engines. If I am wrong please correct me. I think to use the first transmission from the alaskan hauler. It has this doble transmission with the short drive shaft between it. What type of transmission is this exactly? 5 or 8 speed?

So long

Arnd

Someone can correct me if im wrong but i believe it is a spicer 5 speed.

[DRIPTROIT 71]

I'm very interested in seeing your work on the valve covers. I have a resin 6v-92T myself, but it has 71 style valve covers. I was hoping to rework them. Since you're crossing this bridge first, maybe I can pick up some pointers from you. As far as your build, here in North Carolina, when the old 8.2 Diesel died it often got replaced by something different.The 6v-92 would be a logical choice for a road tractor. I personally think that your project is spot on!

[olsbooks]

A most impressive build! Take the following for what it is worth and tell rivet counting fools like myself to go buzz off.

So with that preface, just a bit of 1:1 history info if you want "as built when new" regarding the C60.

GMC mediums of this style with a 3208 were built as "Top Kicks" with a few exceptions. They had a unique tilt hood well through the mid 1980's. Pretty cool look I always thought with 4 headlights below the grille. That engine was a very BIG $ option. GM was very reluctant to even offer the 3208. They were years behind Ford in offering it trying to promote the ill fated 8.2 and losing market share. It was largely knee jerk/panic move to get the Top Kick out and offer something diesel besides the 8.2. It was available in a couple of natural aspirated and turbo versions with just a bit more HP than the 8.2. With Ford already pushing the 3208 and IH having the best diesel of the lot by far at the time, the DT466, GM and the dealers were getting their clock cleaned surviving on gassers. Had IH not dropped gassers, it would have been worse than it was. The S series was far superior in most every way. But if you did not want an IH diesel and were shopping price, it was GM or Ford.

There were alligator hoods 8.2's early on. In the early 80's, a one piece fiberglass tilt hood that looked just like the alligator hood finally became available on gassers or with the 8.2. Most opted for it and it became standard with the 8.2. If the truth be known, probably in an effort to cut warranty costs in labor hours when the 8.2 had to be changed and worked on at factory expense so much but also to combat the hugely popular IH S series.

In the mid 70's, when this body style came out, it seems a 4-53 and perhaps 6V53 series Detroit may have been available early on but that would be rare. The transition from the body style of the mid 60's to mid 70's to what was referred to within GM as the 96.75 (the BBC dimension) was chaotic at first with powertrains and drivelines. House cleaning perhaps. It was not long after the change to the 96.75 that the 8.2 came along with all sorts of hype and hopes of offering more fuel economy and power than the 53 which was indeed a reliable but very thirsty, underpowered, and noisy little monster. Well, the 8.2 was late in coming and was a fiasco. It was available in natural aspirated or turbo. For some reason 190 and 210hp for NA and 235 and 265 hp turbo come to mind but that was a LONG time ago. Typical of GM 4 stroke diesels of the day, it was a disaster. The 71 and 92 were NOT offered from the factory in the 96.75.

Now dealers generically called the 96.75 the C60/6500. There was a 50/5500 (rare) and a 70/7500 with the biggest drivelines including a 6x4 with Hendrickson walking beam rears in the 70/7500. All are externally identical. But transmissions and driveshafts capable of handling the torque of 71 or 92 were never engineered in/offered. The 71 was on borrowed time and the 92 was reserved for dealers with the GM "heavy duty" franchise offering the "J series" 80/8500, 90/9500, Brigadier/Bruin and up. And to muddy the water, what was known internally as the "J's" also offered 3208's, 6-71's, 6V92's and along later the L10 Cummins. The "J's" were not subjected to the shame of the 8.2 and by this time, gassers gone with a 427 being the last to disappear for the truly heavy duty line.

Back then "light GM truck" dealers had the rights to sell the medium duties like the 96.75 but not class 7 or 8 rigs like the "J's" and bigger. It was a common source of friction trying to keep the heavy dealers at peace and unique compared to the local "chevy car dealer" who seldom stocked anything, had no suitable facilities, and no "truck" technicians and yet would bid on big fleet contracts like states and feds who looked only at price. Family squabbles.... Ford was the same way with the big F series and the "baby" Louisville's. "Car dealers" could get all the F series but no L's.

And to really show OCD and go down amnesia alley, the interior door panels and dash you have selected for your fine work date it to earlier production version (pre 1981).

If you go with a gasser, a 366 was standard with a 427 offered. A step down to a 350 and believe it or not, even the 292L6 was available for a CREDIT at one point.

A couple of other rare quirks were a Viking T bar suspension drivers seat, Sierra Classic/Silverado interior trim packages like the pickups, and a lower torque rated (66 series) Fuller 10 or 13 speed (non overdrives). Most were built with Clark 5 speeds of those most with a 2 speed rear axle. Allison automatics were available. A main/aux trans setup was not offered. Last thing. GM never offered FACTORY installed aluminum tanks or aluminum wheels though they crept into some publicity shots and brochures. "Pretty" exterior options were limited to a chrome bumper, chrome grille, chrome mirrors.

So blame the lawyers and family infighting for not having a factory 92 or 71 but back then, heavy GMC/Chevy dealers would have screamed bloody murder if a "car dealer" started peddling C7500's dressed out, set up for, and adequately powered to enter into their turf. And today it is all gone. Bad drama.....

Flashbacks....time to go take some meds..... Some facts probably butchered but the truth as best as I can remember it.

You build it how YOU want it and that will be best!

Heck of great build. Thanks for all the posts!

Peace.

Edited June 7, 2015 by olsbooks

[Arnd]

Hallo Guys

First of all I want to say THANKS A LOT Jesse for this grate story and all that information. That is exactly that way I like this forum and all you guys so much all this history just grate.

As I decided to use a DD 6v92t I started to cast all the parts I need for the engine. The cylinder valve covers were reworked and casted. There are not perfect, I think the proportions do not match but it is like it is. I am not so good in reworking things by just using a photo as an example.

And that casting and casting and casting

The nest step was the engine assembly. All the parts were cleaned up and glued together. I used the transmission from the alskan hauler, as it is Spicer 5 speed it should be ok for that engine. Perhaps I will rework the rear axel to a two speed unit. The power train was fixed to the frame with some self made brackets. It was a bit tricky to find the right place between the firewall and the radiator. The engine is quite long. But it works. The think that the air compressor and the steering pump will be placed on the back of the engine and the alternator on the right side of the engine. The belt pulleys were reworked and installed to the engine.

[Arnd]

And some shots with the cab on the frame

That’s all for now folks. There is lot more work to be done and many many little ideas to be turned in to reality.

So long

Arnd

[Superpeterbilt]

Excellent, Excellent work. I love watching builds of this caliber.

[guitarsam326]

Absolutely fantastic! I really do admire your craftsmanship! Makes me want to build one of these myself!

Edited June 10, 2015 by guitarsam326

[olsbooks]

VERY COOL! A 6V92 turbo in a 6500. Now that will get the job done and then some! Burnouts and drifting galore!

Curious how you will pull off the exhaust. Again, going back to prototype (not that it matters) of those that opted for seldom seen and high cost vertical exhaust, a single "tailpipe" coming up on the passenger side was available that had a pretty nice slotted "chrome" heat shield. The muffler was underslung below the frame rails. Far from the stove pipes everyone likes today or more traditional semi, but actually looked pretty classy and "fit" well. Most of the times I remember it was ordered on those being set up for in town tractors such as beverage delivery. Beer distributors were far more inclined to go for a bit of external glitz far more than most customers.

You have done a fantastic job and certainly planted some ideas for future builds on this end.

Again, most impressive work! A treat to follow and neat to have the cobwebs shaken loose from decades gone by.

Peace.

Edited June 12, 2015 by olsbooks

[Arnd]

Hi guys

I went on with the work on the GMC. I not sure if I need a transmission holder or not? I have in the shop an International school bus, we work on ant it has an Allison automatic transmission with out a transmission holder to the frame. The transmission is just fixed to the engine, and the engine is fixed to the frame. Is this normal? Is this a special think for automatic transmissions? Thanks for your help.

So long

Arnd

[guitarsam326]

Hi guys

I went on with the work on the GMC. I not sure if I need a transmission holder or not? I have in the shop an International school bus, we work on ant it has an Allison automatic transmission with out a transmission holder to the frame. The transmission is just fixed to the engine, and the engine is fixed to the frame. Is this normal? Is this a special think for automatic transmissions? Thanks for your help.

So long

Arnd

Arnd, in my experiences with heavy duty trucks, this is correct, there is no transmission mount.

[Arnd]

Hi all

I worked a bit on the engine. I did some plumbing and detailing. The turbo is on its place and the exhaust tubing for the turbo is done. The belts for the pulleys are ready, too. Need some paint to look like real ones.

The exhaust pipe will be the next challenge but we will see. A Jesse about the exhaust pipes, I am not sure in the moment how it will look like and what type it will be. I thought to use a in frame muffler and to leave the exit under the truck. Let us see what will happen.

I made the mirrors ready with some from the spare part box. This type looks much more correct the other which I tried.

And some shots from under the hood and inside the cab.

Thanks Sam for that info with the transmission.

So long

Arnd

Edited June 14, 2015 by Arnd

[Superpeterbilt]

Excellent work. This is a great build.

[72 Charger]

Fantastic work . Those hood hinges are great . Keep it up your doing great

[Old Albion]

Excellent work so far, the detail on this is incredible.

[DRIPTROIT 71]

Excellent work!!! Your precision in detail amazes me. You have peeked my curiosity. Is that a waste gate control on the turbo? If so, what year models were those used. I considering putting one of these in a Titan myself. Again, Awesome work!!!! Can't wait to see it finished.

[jay1968]

Outstanding work especially with all the detail you've put into it! Keep up the great work!

[Arnd]

Hallo driptroit

I think I have a mistake with that waste gate valve. I was so deep in my work that I did not pay attention absut this. Ihad the turbo from the International I have in the shop and this one looks leike the one I used. I had a look at my reference pictures I have but I am not sure how the turbo presure is gouverned. Perhaps someone knows more and can gives us helping hand about this.

So long

Arnd

[Tesla]

Your level of detailing is incredible!

[DRIPTROIT 71]

Most "old school" turbos (that I've had experience with)did not have waste gate pressure control. The turbo was designed to only produce a certain amount of boost, and on a Detroit the turbo and blower had to be matched. In the mid seventies, my dad added a turbo to a non-turbo 8v-71 in a Road Commander project, but he had to change the blower when he did this. He told me that it would over boost with the original non-turbo blower once the turbo was added. I though that maybe you had found a late version 6v-92 that used a waste gate control like many modern engines (wasn't being critical by no means) your work is incredible.

[olsbooks]

Again, fantastic work.

Gonna 2nd Brians comments above. Due to the very nature of 2 stroke Detroits, there is not a waste gate. 2 stroke Detroits want all the airbox pressure they can get as it is vital to blow out the exhaust gasses in the cylinders. They have tweaked airbox pressure up to nearly 50 psi in some specialty applications today. (Straight blowers are less than 10 psi). In addition to more HP, the increase in airbox pressure helps with the venturi effect used to create crankcase vacuum which in a round about way, can be used to reduce emissions. There is a wonderful cute old cartoon made by GM in the 50's on 2 stroke diesels that until I got out, always used when teaching classes on them. It is on youtube and well worth watching. Just remember, 2 stroke Detroits don't suck. They blow. That fact radically changes common understanding of things like boost, waste gates, charge coolers, etc.

About the only "weird" add on thing on 2 stroke Detroit turbo's is a "trap door". Common mostly in marine applications, it is a solid steel door that would "drop" right in front of the turbo inlet to shut off air intake in the event of a runaway engine condition. It pretty much looks and operates like a guillotine. One of those things you hope never gets used. It is the last resort "panic button".

Now, all that said, I would never go so far as to say no one has tinkered around with a waste gate but simply put, other than as some sort of safety device, the cost/benefit is not there.

Peace.

Hmmmmm.

Edited June 15, 2015 by olsbooks