Oldsmobile 215ci Aluminum V8

[afx]

Wondering if anyone might have a source suggestion for the Olds 215ci V8 in 1/24 scale.  Not concerned about the headers or the induction system just the main engine components, block, water pump, cylinder heads and valve covers.  If I can't come up with anything better I am thinking I can fudge it using a Ford 289.

 

[dublin boy]

Is this the same as the old Buick 215 all aluminium engine they sold to Rover back in the day JC that went on to power all sorts of things like TVRs etc.?

There was a company in the UK producing white metal  kits of it in 1/24 or 1/25 as far as I remember.

[afx]

Is this the same as the old Buick 215 all aluminium engine they sold to Rover back in the day JC that went on to power all sorts of things like TVRs etc.?

There was a company in the UK producing white metal  kits of it in 1/24 or 1/25 as far as I remember.

I understand Shay that the Olds and Buick 215s are very similar and they where used by Rover, MG etc.   The aluminum Olds 215 powered several different race cars in the 60's; sportscars, F1, Indy,

Edited July 20, 2015 by afx

[dublin boy]

The valve covers on the 'Rover' V8 aren't at an angle like that though, that's why I ask.

I'll have a look for that site on the Buick/Rover 3.5 litre engine. I'm not sure if it's still available, the pics I saw looked very nice for white metal.

[Art Anderson]

I believe the Olds 215cid V8 went to Australia (Holden perhaps?).  I do remember that it became the starting point for the Australian Repco racing V8, which powered Jack Brabham's Indianapolis 500 entries in 1969.

 

Art

[Force]

As far as I know it was Rover that bought the Buick/Pontiac/Oldsmobile aluminum 215 from GM back in 1963 and I believe it was in production until 2006.
Holden uses Chevy engines, but of course can the 215 have been the starting point fo the Brabham engines anyway.
I don't have the kit so I can't look but the old Jo-Han Olds F-85 kit can have one, in that case it should be the Olds version with slightly different heads and valve covers.

[afx]

I believe the Olds 215cid V8 went to Australia (Holden perhaps?).  I do remember that it became the starting point for the Australian Repco racing V8, which powered Jack Brabham's Indianapolis 500 entries in 1969.

 

Art

I understand this car built by Mickey Thompson for the '62 Indy 500 and driven by Dan Gurney was powered by the aluminum Olds 215.

As far as I know it was Rover that bought the Buick/Pontiac/Oldsmobile aluminum 215 from GM back in 1963 and I believe it was in production until 2006.
Holden uses Chevy engines, but of course can the 215 have been the starting point fo the Brabham engines anyway.
I don't have the kit so I can't look but the old Jo-Han Olds F-85 kit can have one, in that case it should be the Olds version with slightly different heads and valve covers.

Yea I don't have a Johan Olds F85 either but the pictures I have found of the engine from that kit don't look very promising.

[Ace-Garageguy]

The Buick / Rover 215 differs significantly from the Olds 215 V8 block that the Australian Repco Formula 1 engine is based on (though they're closely related).

The Olds / Repco block had 18 studs per head (six around each chamber, some shared) because of Oldsmobile's intention to use the engine in a turbocharged application. The Buick / Rover block won't take the 18-hole heads of the Olds version, having only 14 studs.

The Buick 215 has more vertical-looking valve covers, reminiscent of the old nailhead, like this...

 

...while the Oldsmobile version has entirely different heads, with more splayed valve covers, like this...

Repco replaced the pushrod heads and valvetrain with much more exotic (at the time) single-overhead-cam heads (SOHC, or one overhead cam per cylinder bank), ultimately evolving into a 4 valves-per-cylinder DOHC that met with very little success and was canceled. Supposedly 6 of the 3-liter SOHC engines were assembled on Olds bottom ends (but using a single-plane crankshaft) and the later Repco SOHC V8 engines, though still based on the Oldsmobile block architecture, used specially cast and reinforced non-GM blocks.

The SOHC Repco engine was quite successful.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Force]

After what I have read about these engines the Buick/Pontiac and the Olds are based on the same basic design but Olds took their own way on some things so they differ in the head/valve cover area.
Olds added one head bolt per cylinder on the intake side but otherwise the pattern are the same, so if you don't use that bolt hole you can use Olds heads on the Buick block but the other way around is not recomended.
But as I haven't really worked on them I can't know for sure.

The Jo-Han Olds F-85 is the only kit I can think of that can have this engine.
 

Edited July 21, 2015 by Force

[Ace-Garageguy]

The Buick blocks have cast-in bosses that appear as though  they would accommodate the additional row of 4 head studs in the inside of the V, but I've never tried to make this work either. The Buick ports are tiny, so I've always used the Olds engines for 215 applications. It's difficult for me to grasp why Buick would leave the top row of stud holes blank if a simple machining operation would have provided much improved cylinder sealing over time and heavy use.

Olds...       

                                                          Buick...           

I have a 1/25 Johan '62 Olds F-85 which definitely has a 215 in it. Though it's got a big ol' hole in the engine for a wire axle, it's a decent starting point. 

Starting with a 1/25 289 Ford to get a 1/24 215 probably is a pretty good idea, as long as you change the shapes of the heads, valve covers, and exhaust port spacing. Few people have ever seen an Olds 215, so with some gentle massaging, you ought to be able to do a believable one from the 289 Ford.

[Art Anderson]

I believe the Olds 215cid V8 went to Australia (Holden perhaps?).  I do remember that it became the starting point for the Australian Repco racing V8, which powered Jack Brabham's Indianapolis 500 entries in 1969.

 

Art

I understand this car built by Mickey Thompson for the '62 Indy 500 and driven by Dan Gurney was powered by the aluminum Olds 215.

As far as I know it was Rover that bought the Buick/Pontiac/Oldsmobile aluminum 215 from GM back in 1963 and I believe it was in production until 2006.
Holden uses Chevy engines, but of course can the 215 have been the starting point fo the Brabham engines anyway.
I don't have the kit so I can't look but the old Jo-Han Olds F-85 kit can have one, in that case it should be the Olds version with slightly different heads and valve covers.

Yea I don't have a Johan Olds F85 either but the pictures I have found of the engine from that kit don't look very promising.

Mickey Thompson's 1962 Indianapolis 500 entry you have pictured used the small Buick V8, not the Olds  (Even Hot Rod Magazine noted that with their August 1962 Issue, which covered that year's Indianapolis 500 Mile Race:  "32 Offies & One Buick".

Art

[Force]

 

I have a 1/25 Johan '62 Olds F-85 which definitely has a 215 in it. Though it's got a big ol' hole in the engine for a wire axle, it's a decent starting point. 

Starting with a 1/25 289 Ford to get a 1/24 215 probably is a pretty good idea, as long as you change the shapes of the heads, valve covers, and exhaust port spacing. Few people have ever seen an Olds 215, so with some gentle massaging, you ought to be able to do a believable one from the 289 Ford.

The exhaust side of a 221-302 Ford is not that wrong as the ports are evenly spaced, the two middle ones needs to be a bit further appart to be correct tho', the intake ports on the Ford are also evenly spaced and the middle ports are siamesed on the Olds so you probably have to do something about that as the intake is quite visible.

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

I have a 1/25 Johan '62 Olds F-85 which definitely has a 215 in it. Though it's got a big ol' hole in the engine for a wire axle, it's a decent starting point. 

Starting with a 1/25 289 Ford to get a 1/24 215 probably is a pretty good idea, as long as you change the shapes of the heads, valve covers, and exhaust port spacing. Few people have ever seen an Olds 215, so with some gentle massaging, you ought to be able to do a believable one from the 289 Ford.

The exhaust side of a 221-302 Ford is not that wrong as the ports are evenly spaced, the two middle ones needs to be a bit further appart to be correct tho', the intake ports on the Ford are also evenly spaced and the middle ports are siamesed on the Olds so you probably have to do something about that as the intake is quite visible.

Good point about the intake port spacing being very different on the little Ford from that of the 215.

However, though the two inboard intake ports on the 215 are paired and close together, they are not "siamesed". 

"Siamesed ports" (the term derives from the old "Siamese-twins" term that has been replaced by the PC term "conjoined twins") are present when two adjacent cylinders share a single port, or two adjacent ports have no dividing wall between them.

The Olds 215 intake port arrangement is shown below, third from left. You can see there's a dividing wall between the paired center ports.

These old AMC heads show the difference between siamesed ports and closely-paired ports. The upper head has siamesed inboard exhaust ports, while the lower head has closely-paired intake ports (the hole in the center is a heat riser passage).

[afx]

I really like the Revellogram Ford 289 in 1/24 scale.  I think massaging it to represent an Olds 215 is the way I'll go.  Thanks for all your help gentlemen!

 

Edited July 21, 2015 by afx

[dublin boy]

Good information too.

[afx]

For those so inclined here is a link to more information about the engine than you ever wanted to know.

[Force]

Yes you are right Bill, I used the wrong term but you knew what I meant anyway.
The inboard intake ports are paired like the middle exhaust ports on a Chevy SB. 

You are welcome JC, I wish you well on your project.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Force