STYRENE-SURFER Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 The first I have heard of this but apparently has been suspected for awhile. Now they finally busted someone for it. http://www.businessinsider.com/officials-have-finally-caught-a-cyclist-using-a-hidden-motor-in-competition-2016-1
Harry P. Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Wow! Those bicycle racers are sure a sneaky bunch! But that's so diabolically clever, you almost have to admire the ingenuity!My question would be... how in the world can such a tiny motor generate enough torque to actually propel a bike and rider?
mike 51 Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Electric or gas? Hard to imagine how it might work or how it could be concealed ( yes, I saw the scope they were using but..) Hope we learn more...I'd like to see this "motor" soon.
Bernard Kron Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) The motors are electric, housed in the seat tube of the frame, and connected to the axle shaft of the crankset by small gears. Output is fairly small, a couple of hundred watts at the very most, and often much less. in most cases and available in brief bursts. The point is that it provides a small marginal increase in power output at critical moments. Switches and controls are relatively easy to miniaturize and conceal. The challenge remains both the size/duration of batteries and the size/output/efficiency of the motor. A small company has recently had a breakthrough in these areas and seems to have been promoting the use of their products among athletes, which may prove to be a doubtful call on their part. With top male professionals peaking at close to 1,000 watts during competition most pros are still dubious about the small outputs of these motors relative to the additional weight which can run to a kilogram (2.2 lbs.) or more. But for everyday cyclists this weight is a small price to pay for the difference between a pleasant ride up hitherto difficult hills and an afternoon of suffering. Detecting the motors in the bikes is relatively easy using various scanning techniques. That's why up to now it has seemed to be a mythical beast, at least in the professional ranks. Hardly worth the risk since detection would almost certainly result in a lifetime ban. But, again, for pleasure riders or for bragging rights on a club run the appeal is there... Edited February 2, 2016 by Bernard Kron
Harry P. Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 What's the power source? How does the motor run?
Bernard Kron Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Harry, see my comment above. Electric batteries either housed externally if there's nothing to conceal, in which case they can be fairly large, or hidden in the frame tubes. The mass and density of the motor cartridge and the batteries is one reason why detection is quite easy.
Harry P. Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 I still can't wrap my head around how such a small motor can generate the torque needed to move a bike and rider. I mean, the thing is smaller than a Dremel! And obviously if you strapped a Dremel onto your bike and geared it up somehow, it would accomplish nothing....
Bernard Kron Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Think of it in terms of supplementary power, rather than as a substitute for the rider's muscles. For the young cyclo-cross competitor riding at the world champiosnips in Belgium referred to in the article it was the difference between dropping out and perhaps finishing. When Armstrong was using EPO it only ever increased his strength and endurance by a factor of perhaps 2%, but at the margin it can make the difference between victory and defeat.
Harry P. Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Yes, I can see that. A little added extra boost when you need it.
mike 51 Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Interesting...I can see the commercial use(unhidden)..I.still wonder if it was used in racing before yet unnoticed (?) I would think the bikes were weighed during inspection (maybe they didn't inspect them until now?) Thanks for the info Bernard... Edited February 2, 2016 by mike 51
STYRENE-SURFER Posted February 2, 2016 Author Posted February 2, 2016 Harry, you are spot on with your "diabolically clever" one would think after so much scrutiny of doping of the athletesthat they would forget about trying to cheat. So much attention to the athletes themselves they weren't lookingclosely at the equipment. An opportunity was taken.
Bernard Kron Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) For UCI (the world governing body) sanctioned competitive events there is a minimum weight for the bicycles of 6.8 kg (14.99 pounds) which has been in place for many years. It was first establish because bikes were getting too fragile and mechanical failures were a danger to the riders. With modern composites far lighter machines, weighing as little 5 kg can be built with no compromise to safety at all. So it's fairly simply to build an underweight bike and then add the motor and power pack to it. But there's no way to get around the mass and density of all the equipment. That's why, as soon as the rumours about "mechanical doping" began flying now more than 5 years ago the UCI moved quickly to scan bikes at the end of competitions. As I said, it's relatively easy and very quick to check. But again, for a young competitor, as in this example, the temptation can be huge and she may simply have been too naïve to resist. Chemical doping, on the o0ther hand, isn't so simple, and requires the cooperation of the athletes, the organizers and the sponsors to police it. For this reason in professional sports where the sanctioning body has chosen to look the other way chemical doping remains endemic, often to the detriment of the athlete's long-term health (i.e. American football, professional tennis, professional track and field, etc.). Edited February 3, 2016 by Bernard Kron
aurfalien Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Brilliant!They should give whomever was caught a medal, or at least a slice of pizza!
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I'm always amazed (and saddened, somehow) at the lengths people will go to to cheat.I'll take earned self respect over winning by cheating any day.
Bernard Kron Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) Commercially available system similar to what is suspected as being used in mechanical doping: See: http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/produkte/vivax-assist-4-0/vivax-assist_4-0.html From the Vivax Assist website: The vivax 2-in-1 principleOne Bike- two functionsThe lightest electric motor available anywhere means your bike can look just like a conventional bike. Here's why:Weight:A low total kit weight of 1.8 kg (including battery), means the bike can still be used as a “normal” bike. Position:The motor is elegantly hidden in the seat tube, so the centre of gravity remains where it should and the bike provides that authentic feeling ride. Size:A 220 mm length and a diameter choice of 30.9 or 31.6 means the perfect motor and controller size for seat tube fitting. The battery is hidden in the saddle bag. So the system is invisible, maintaining the overall look of an unpowered bike. Kit option:It’s possible to build the vivax assist into your own bike, transforming it into an e-bike that can be used like a normal bike, with virtually no motor resistance, thanks to the motor’s freewheel. (Please note bicycle frame requirements for fitting).Functionality: The basic function of the bike is not impaired: No other motor combines sports cycling with comfort and electronic support like the Vivax Assist 4.0. Press the button and the motor delivers 200 watts to the crankshaft; press the button again and the motor stops. Without motor power you can ride a Vivax-equipped bike as normal - without any kind of resistance. Edited February 3, 2016 by Bernard Kron
Harry P. Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I know it's cheating (in pro bike racing), but man, that is just brilliant.
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) Last line under Bernard's tech-specs post... "Press the button and the motor delivers 200 watts to the crankshaft"That's roughly equivalent to 1/4 of one horsepower (.25 horsepower).At maximum load, I'd guess the batteries could only deliver that for a matter of seconds.At maximum load, like climbing a hill, a human cyclist puts out 400-500 watts, or roughly .5 to .7 horsepower.A world-class cyclist can maintain around a 300-400 watt-output over an hour.There would definitely be an advantage to having a 50% power boost while you were hill-climbing, but it wouldn't last very long.To put this in some kind of perspective, think about how long your cordless drill will keep on running long deck screws into tough wood before the battery needs recharging. One-half horsepower is about average, and the motor in that case is almost at stall, and that's roughly equivalent to what you'd be asking the bicycle power-unit to do if you were climbing a long hill. Edited February 3, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy
Bernard Kron Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) Nice analysis Bill. All competitions are won at the margin, so 200 watts for a matter of seconds is huge if you have it and others don't. Recent live tracking of rider output in UCI World Tour competition, the top level, has shown peak outputs for as long as a minute, of as much as a full kilowatt (1,000 watts) when climbing grades of as much as 20% or more. For riders incapable of such peaks that extra 200 watts can be the difference between blowing up and going to the showers or being in on the finish. For those with the 1,000 watts on tap, well.....Most of this hype is being driven currently by an Italian journalist named Claudio Ghisalberti reporting for the Gazzetta dello Sport, the pink colored daily sports newspaper which sponsors the Giro d'Italia (the 3-week Tour of Italy, second only to the Tour de France among major professional bicycle races). and which can benefit from a little controversy. In 2010 Ghisalberti authored a series or articles claiming the dominant time trialist and TT World Champion at the time, the Swiss rider Fabian Cancellara, whose "superhuman" performances is the stuff of legend, was in fact using "mechanical doping" in lieu of chemical means. Ghisalberti even had a YouTube video showing "evidence" - a video which was quickly debunked by several sources - and the whole thing caused quite a sensation. Ghisalberti is now back with a series of new articles claiming a thriving underground among amateur cyclists wishing to prevail in various large international semi-competitive events, sometimes marketed as Gran Fondo, where small amounts of money and prizes, and a good deal of notoriety, are to be had. He claims about 1200 high-end bikes per year are being cut open and retrofitted with this technology - obviously a tiny number, but significant enough to trickle into the lower ranks of the pros and to possibly be used for an occasional critical "boost" by switching bikes, etc. In the end most observers say that the complexity and awkwardness at this point, combined with severely limited battery life, argues against it as much of a problem.Ghisalberti has just come out with a new article claiming a new technology, electromagnetic wheels, which offer 60 watts per wheel of boost, and are completely undetectable, all for a mere 200,000 Euros ($210.000) a set! The deal here is that you could arrange to have a "flat", switch wheels, get the tactical boost, "flat" again, and ride away clean! Ghisalberti is serious about his 15 minutes of fame!The young woman who got busted, 19 year old Belgian Femke Van den Driessche, turns out to be an interesting character. She claims the bike that got tested is not hers, but instead belongs to a friend, Nico Van Muylder,,who bought the bike from her last year. Van Muylder has come out to confirm the bike is his. Van den Driessche, in a fairly dubious story, claims the bike is identical in appearance to the bike she was to use in the Under-23 World Cyclo Cross Championships and was mistakenly prepared by her mechanic that morning for her use. Someone must have tipped officials off because they inspected her bikes before the race and she did not use it in the competition. Interestingly, although she was among the favorites, she did not finish.But wait! There's more. It seems the Van den Driessche family are a pretty unsavory bunch. Here brother Niels Van den Driessche, also a competitive cyclist, is currently under suspension for chemical doping. And her father Frank and dear brother Niels are currently under investigation for stealing some exotic and expensive parakeets from a pet shop last February! They were recorded on security cameras and face almost certain conviction, now that the shop owner has seen their mugs in the local papers and has been able to confirm it was them... Edited February 3, 2016 by Bernard Kron
Harry P. Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 All this, and now birdnapping too? Wow, these bike people are quite an unsavory bunch, aren't they?
Bernard Kron Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 The competitive drive can easily cloud the mind...It occurs to me that if the UCI wants to stop the specter of mechanical doping dead in its tracks, at least at the highest levels of the sport, they have simply to eliminate the minimum weight rule and substitute an F1 style equipment certification program. The 1-2 kilogram penalty of the motor and batteries would disqualify them from consideration instantly. The manufacturers have been clamoring for exactly that and the UCI is said to be seriously reviewing the change. With top-of-the-line bikes costing easily $10-12K or more such a program could be readily funded by certification fees. After all, genuine Team Issue bikes are no longer the state-of-art they once were!
STYRENE-SURFER Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 Bernard... thanks for additional information. The technology behind this is fascinating to me, the characters involved however are quite pathetic.There was a thread on the F1 technical forum with some info on hypothetical use of those electromagnetic wheels, and there possibilitiesin F1 racing sense they are trying to be more green.
Harry P. Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 The competitive drive can easily cloud the mind...It occurs to me that if the UCI wants to stop the specter of mechanical doping dead in its tracks, at least at the highest levels of the sport, they have simply to eliminate the minimum weight rule and substitute an F1 style equipment certification program. The 1-2 kilogram penalty of the motor and batteries would disqualify them from consideration instantly. The manufacturers have been clamoring for exactly that and the UCI is said to be seriously reviewing the change. With top-of-the-line bikes costing easily $10-12K or more such a program could be readily funded by certification fees. After all, genuine Team Issue bikes are no longer the state-of-art they once were!Or just X-ray the frame.
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 Or just X-ray the frame....which is probably the smartest approach, as carbon-fiber is almost completely transparent to X-rays, so even low-power equipment in the field should work.
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