Is this real?

[Nick F40]

Ferdinand Porsche designed the Beetle, and the KDF('Strength Through Joy') philosophy was his; the initial plan was to call the little car the KDF-wagen. The German government, with Hitler as chancellor, provided the financial backing that was needed to make Porsche's little car a reality. Hitler's government instituted a savings book plan, promising that everyone could afford their own car.....the "peoples' car," as they renamed it.....strangely enough, nobody ever received one.

oh great, you shouldn't have messed with the VW guy!

Dave,

Even my Pug "Oti-Wan Kenobi" would tell you "inappropriate is that to say".

Regards,

Dirk "but you know the swastika has been around way before the nazis adopted it for themselves... but yes this beetle is in direct reference of the nazi group, but hey let it be, why try to erase history whether it be bad or good."

is that Porsche for real? The Swastika meant power, it had NOTHING and I mean NOTHING to do with facism, racism, or dislike for certain groups, the Nazi party just inherited it and used it to a bad name. I just don't see why they would make a kit if it stood for all of that, and with Hitler's people car, didn't it also have an effect with the Autobahn? it was easier to campaign than his Mercedes. I think it's stupid that they would get rid of those decals that ARE PART OF HISTORY for those planes just because of politics, then I think the Geramn planes even without the Nazi party emblem is offending because they lost, why build them. You know? it's pitiful really.

[george 53]

Dirk,Dirk,Dirk, I don't really think people are trying to re-write history as much as objecting to symbols of out and out hatred used by certian regimes.Yes the swastika was around long before hitler used it, but under his dctatorship it lost whatever meaning it was created for and became a symbol for hatered and intolerance. he used it for a purpose totally unconected to what it meant. What was it originally? Who knows,but I and most people my age associate it with the nazi regime of WWII. It's against the law to show it In any way shape or form in most European countrys. Don't go walkin thru any Jewish neihborhoods wavin it around! It's like the white hooded robes the kkk wears. A symbol of hatred.Again I don't think anyone in their right mind would wear one thru Harlem.Some things are just NOT done.Displaying this particular symbol is one of them.Not trying to get in your as# about it just want to clarify why some folks find it offensive.

[lordairgtar]

Here's something I picked up off an Audi web site. There was a Mercedes that had a similar look.

volkswagen

Literally, the word "volkswagen" means "people's car." In Germany, the idea of a people's car wasn't exactly a new one. Before the 1930's, there had been many efforts to create simple cars that everyone could afford, but none met with profound success. Almost all cars before 1930, even if they were designed to be simple enough for the average person, ended up costing more than the average worker's yearly wage.

Ferdinand Porsche Meanwhile, the year is 1930, and Ferdinand Porsche had just set up an automotive design company, which became known as the Porsche Büro. The company patented a sophisticated independent front suspension system, which consisted of transversely mounted torsion bars connected to two trailing arms on each side. At the time, this was lighter than most other common types of suspension. In 1931, a German motorcycle company, Zündapp, asked Porsche if he could design a suitable car for them. Porsche came up with a streamlined 2 door sedan, which had lines similar to the Beetle. It was designated the Type 12. Zündapp wanted to put in a 1.2 liter radial engine from one of their motorcycles...this was the end of the line for this design, as it didn't make it any further.

Porsche then designed a car for NSU in 1933 that was known as the Type 32. This car looked even more similar to the upcoming KdF Wagen than the Type 12 did. This car looked similar to the Tatra V570, and shared many mechanical similarities. After World War II, the Volkswagen company paid Tatra for compensation, since Tatra believed its technology and design was pirated in development of the KdF Wagen. Eventaully, NSU dropped the Type 32 project.

Later in 1933, Adolf Hitler met with Ferdinand Porsche to discuss Hitler's idea of a volkswagen. Hitler proposed a people's car that could carry 5 people, cruise up to 62mph, return 33mpg, and cost only 1000 Reich Marks. This was an opportunity for Porsche to push his idea of a small car foward, as was it to help Hitler get a real people's car for the citizens of Germany.

Initially, Porsche designated this design the Type 60, but it was soon changed to the V1 (experimental 1). Hitler also proposed to have a convertible version produced: it was designated V2. Porsche was not able to make the deadline to finish the first two prototypes, as there was not enough time to physically design the cars and to built them. In any case, they were completed and driving by 1935. Soon, the V1 design was updated, and three cars were produced. This new design was the VW3. These cars were put through rigorous testing in 1936.

These cars looked very similar to the KdF Wagen, that was to appear later. Eventually, the VW3s had metal floors, swing axle rear transmissions, Porsche's front independed suspensions, and backbone floorpans. Several engines were tested, and eventually a flat four cylinder aircooled four stroke engine was chosen. Surprisingly, the engine that was chosen was cheaper and more reliable than some of the four cylinder two stroke engines that were tested. This 22.5 hp four cylinder "boxer" engine was roughly the same as the engines that would later be incorporated into Volkswagen Beetles that are still produced today.

VW30 in 1937 After data was collected from the tests of the VW3s, the next version, the VW30 was created, and in all, 30 were produced. Due to Hitler's regime, control of the company and testing of the VW30 was given to a government organization called the DAF. Now, members of the SS were required to drive the VW30s to confirm that all the problems of the V3s were fixed. For the most part, these tests showed that most of the problems in earlier cars had been fixed.

VW30

In 1938, construction began on the KdF Wagen factory, and on the town that was going to be next to the factory. In 1939, several VW38s (pre-production) and VW39s (demonstration cars) were produced just to show that the factory did work, and to show what the final version of the car would look like. These cars were different from their predecessors in that they had front hinged doors (all the VW designs before had "suicide" doors), split windows in the rear, larger hoods, and many other minor differences. This edition of the car was the basis of the Beetle after the war was over.

Introduction of VW38s When the V38s were introduced, Hitler abruptly changed the name of the car to KdF Wagen. KdF stood for "Kraft durch Freude" which meant "Strength through Joy." This upset Porsche, as he was not a member of the Nazi party, and he didn't support Hitler's use of propaganda when advertising the car.

Edited April 30, 2008 by lordairgtar

[lordairgtar]

http://www.elomnibus.com/images/carsbig/20...es_hs170big.jpg

Look at this. Could this be the birth of the KdF wagen?

[Darrell Gwinn]

Dirk,Dirk,Dirk, I don't really think people are trying to re-write history as much as objecting to symbols of out and out hatred used by certian regimes.Yes the swastika was around long before hitler used it, but under his dctatorship it lost whatever meaning it was created for and became a symbol for hatered and intolerance. he used it for a purpose totally unconected to what it meant. What was it originally? Who knows,but I and most people my age associate it with the nazi regime of WWII. It's against the law to show it In any way shape or form in most European countrys. Don't go walkin thru any Jewish neihborhoods wavin it around! It's like the white hooded robes the kkk wears. A symbol of hatred.Again I don't think anyone in their right mind would wear one thru Harlem.Some things are just NOT done.Displaying this particular symbol is one of them.Not trying to get in your as# about it just want to clarify why some folks find it offensive.

You're right and I know that people will find it offensive, but it is pretty dumb that one man can ruin a symbol, I mean in my opinion the swastika looks cool for how simple it is and its sad that it will probably only be known for its use by the nazis. Its kind of like a cover song... lol kids now listen to a band that covers an old song and think that theyre the ones who wrote it and give them the credit and absolutely have no idea of the original composer. just thought id throw that in there. lol

[Olle F]

What was it originally? Who knows

I'm not an expert on swastikas, but I have heard that it's original use was as a symbol of the sun. Ironically, it has often been considered to bring good luck.

In the case of this kit, I'd say that it's in extremely bad taste but as someone already said, you shouldn't try to erase history. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, so sweeping the past under the rug is of no help at all. As a matter of fact, I really believe that hiding parts of history can make it even more interesting and attractive, as it's too easy for it to turn into that "forbidden fruit" you absolutely have to taste. I would rather leave the swastikas alone and inform my kids about what it is and what it symbolizes.

Before you flame me for this I better make it clear that I'm not talking about flying the nazi banner in public, it just irks me that some people think that it needs to be totally erased from the face of the earth, regardless of context. Personally, I find some of this "revisionism" quite ridiculous, like the WWII airplanes I mentioned in my previous post. I mean, do people really think that you'll turn into a nazi by building one? And if your kid builds one, wouldn't it be a great opportunity for a history lesson?

[Nick F40]

I'm not an expert on swastikas, but I have heard that it's original use was as a symbol of the sun. Ironically, it has often been considered to bring good luck.

In the case of this kit, I'd say that it's in extremely bad taste but as someone already said, you shouldn't try to erase history. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, so sweeping the past under the rug is of no help at all. As a matter of fact, I really believe that hiding parts of history can make it even more interesting and attractive, as it's too easy for it to turn into that "forbidden fruit" you absolutely have to taste. I would rather leave the swastikas alone and inform my kids about what it is and what it symbolizes.

Before you flame me for this I better make it clear that I'm not talking about flying the nazi banner in public, it just irks me that some people think that it needs to be totally erased from the face of the earth, regardless of context. Personally, I find some of this "revisionism" quite ridiculous, like the WWII airplanes I mentioned in my previous post. I mean, do people really think that you'll turn into a nazi by building one? And if your kid builds one, wouldn't it be a great opportunity for a history lesson?

ding ding THANK YOU sir! thank you

I see some pictures in my WWII book that shows it was a good luck charm they gave to soldiers and airbourne units in WWI as a good luck charm and people were estatic if they got it.

[kk916]

Wow, I really wasn't expecting this type of response, I was honestly just curious if it was real or not. I googled IMAI and searched for them on ebay to find some very cool and different kits. I've never seen them in stores before so I'll have to keep an eye online to get some of there stuff I guess. I'd love to get my hands a few of the kit I posted just for the wide array of options available in it.

[bob paeth]

Back in the middle 60's Revell offered a WW II german fighter plane model with the proper swastika design in the decal sheet. They were immediately flooded with letters complaining about the use of the swastika. Revell, bowing to the public's concern, changed the decal sheet to eliminate the swastika. That done, Revell received even more letters of complaint about the model not being authentic because of the deletion of the swastika. The letters in favor, out numbered those who were against and once more the decal was changed to be correct. DAMNED IF YOU DO AND DAMNED IF YOU

DON'T. You can't change history. If a decal has something you don't like,..................don't buy the kit or at the very least, throw the dacal in the waste basket.

bob

[evilone]

ok now all they need to do is offer that kit with a vodca company logo then all will be fogottin or will it

[Nick F40]

Back in the middle 60's Revell offered a WW II german fighter plane model with the proper swastika design in the decal sheet. They were immediately flooded with letters complaining about the use of the swastika. Revell, bowing to the public's concern, changed the decal sheet to eliminate the swastika. That done, Revell received even more letters of complaint about the model not being authentic because of the deletion of the swastika. The letters in favor, out numbered those who were against and once more the decal was changed to be correct. DAMNED IF YOU DO AND DAMNED IF YOU

DON'T. You can't change history. If a decal has something you don't like,..................don't buy the kit or at the very least, throw the dacal in the waste basket.

bob

why don't people realize and do that, honestly?

[Ken]

Actually, the Nazi symbols are outlawed in Germany for sure and maybe most of Europe. The model companies do not show the swastika on the boxes so that they do not have to print different copies of the art work and the box tops. The swastikas are usually included on the decal sheets, but they are cut apart in pieces. That way they get around the law, since it is not an actual swastika on the decal sheet. The model is then left with the decision to either piece together the swastika or leave them off. The model companies can offer an authentic replica and not offend anyone's feelings. Most aftermarket decal sheets offer complete swastikas for those too lazy to piece the kit ones together. Yes, the swastika was around before the Nazis. Many early people used the symbol to represent hope and eternity. It was the Nazis that corrupted it into something bad.

[Harry P.]

The swastika symbol is one of the oldest known symbols, even older than the ancient Egyptian "Ankh". The swastika has been used by many groups of people, Indian tribes, organizations, etc. for over 3,000 years!

You would be surprised at how many different groups or organizations used the swastika as their symbol at one time or another, including the United States Army 45th Infantry Division!!! (yes, it's true!)

[Aaronw]

Finland used a blue reversed swastika as their national symbol on aircraft prior to and through WW2. They changed it after the war, since they had fought on the side of the Germans against the USSR (the USSR had attacked Finland in 1940), so they probably felt it wasn't worth the bad feeling of keeping their symbol being on shakey ground already.

[mageckman]

As VWDave posted earlier"I was going to say you really need to do your homework before posting, but why change your M.O. now?" The swastika, aka: fylfot,mundilfari,sunwheel, or hammer, is an ANCIENT religious symbol known and used in just about all religions at one time or another. Just because one group used a symbol to promote hate, death, and conformity does not mean we need to ban or burn it. If we were to take that stance on all symbols that were used by groups doing the same thing, there would be very few symbols left that anyone would be allowed to use anywhere. Take the Christian Cross for example( the only reason I am using this as an example is it is a very prominent symbol). The cross has been around as long if not longer than the swastika. It was probably a symbol of the sun or the directions. It was also used as a symbol of punishment and death. The Romans, among others, used a cross as a punishment for crimes commited. As the Romans, and much of Europe , became Christianized, it became a symbol of Christianity.It became a rallying symbol to Christians across the planet as they strove to "convert"(read torture, kill, maim, and destroy anything and anyone who was different than they were and believed differently than they did). Look at what the European Christians did during the "Crusades". Is this really all that different than what the Nazis did under Hitler? The only difference I see is that the Christians won.

Oh, and by the way, you can flame me all you want. I DON'T CARE!!!! Life is too short to hate someone else for their beliefs. Mageckman

[evilone]

As VWDave posted earlier"I was going to say you really need to do your homework before posting, but why change your M.O. now?" The swastika, aka: fylfot,mundilfari,sunwheel, or hammer, is an ANCIENT religious symbol known and used in just about all religions at one time or another. Just because one group used a symbol to promote hate, death, and conformity does not mean we need to ban or burn it. If we were to take that stance on all symbols that were used by groups doing the same thing, there would be very few symbols left that anyone would be allowed to use anywhere. Take the Christian Cross for example( the only reason I am using this as an example is it is a very prominent symbol). The cross has been around as long if not longer than the swastika. It was probably a symbol of the sun or the directions. It was also used as a symbol of punishment and death. The Romans, among others, used a cross as a punishment for crimes commited. As the Romans, and much of Europe , became Christianized, it became a symbol of Christianity.It became a rallying symbol to Christians across the planet as they strove to "convert"(read torture, kill, maim, and destroy anything and anyone who was different than they were and believed differently than they did). Look at what the European Christians did during the "Crusades". Is this really all that different than what the Nazis did under Hitler? The only difference I see is that the Christians won.

Oh, and by the way, you can flame me all you want. I DON'T CARE!!!! Life is too short to hate someone else for their beliefs. Mageckman

well said

as for the symbol

i recently herd that the aztec indians used it as a sign of peace

since hitler F!@#ED it up for everyone it is no longer used as it was initally ment

now its used for hate and racism which in my eyes is way to stupid in its own right

life is to short to hate another person due to skin color

it happens to me as well as everyone else in this world

and there is no logical explination for it

if you ask a racist person the question WHY enough times you will get the answer BECAUSE

and BECAUSE is not a valid answer

so i say to the company that made that kit good job for breaking the mold

[lordairgtar]

It became a rallying symbol to Christians across the planet as they strove to "convert"(read torture, kill, maim, and destroy anything and anyone who was different than they were and believed differently than they did). Look at what the European Christians did during the "Crusades". Is this really all that different than what the Nazis did under Hitler? The only difference I see is that the Christians won.

Oh, and by the way, you can flame me all you want. I DON'T CARE!!!! Life is too short to hate someone else for their beliefs. Mageckman

Not flaming anyone here, but your synopsis of the crusades are a bit off and leaves a lot out. The original intent of the crusading knights were to protect pilgrims going to the holy land from bandits ( the Church asked countries to provide men for this) and then the Muslim raiders who were increasing their territory throughout northern Africa and into Spain. The part of your paragraph (which is true, BTW) deals with what happened when greed and avarice entered the picture and they started to go after who they perceived as heretics and enemies of the Church. Does the Spanish Inquisition ring a bell? This is where

Torquemada came from. (You couldn't Torquemada anything )

Edited May 1, 2008 by lordairgtar

[samdiego]

To The Hopi Tribe of Native Americans this was a sacred symbol of Sun and Earth. The rays are symbolic of the spiritual journey, moving out in the four directions, the right angles represent the physical migration of the Hopi people.

[evilone]

Not flaming anyone here, but your synopsis of the crusades are a bit off and leaves a lot out. The original intent of the crusading knights were to protect pilgrims going to the holy land from bandits ( the Church asked countries to provide men for this) and then the Muslim raiders who were increasing their territory throughout northern Africa and into Spain. The part of your paragraph (which is true, BTW) deals with what happened when greed and avarice entered the picture and they started to go after who they perceived as heretics and enemies of the Church. Does the Spanish Inquisition ring a bell? This is where

Torquemada came from. (You couldn't Torquemada anything )

well heres another subject to compare to

the chinese are torturing and thinking of genocide on the people living in tebet

as well as the genocide happening in africa as i speak

and to think that people say germans are the bad guys when it comes to genocide

[Rich]

A friend of mine just sent me this and I cant find any more info on it. I'm honestly more interested in the tow truck option on the side but I thought I was losing my mind for a second when I saw the Beetle on the main cover.

Burn it.

[evilone]

Burn it.

why should he its a friggin kit

looks like a good one with all those options on the side too

[Nick F40]

Before you do, can I have the wheels/tires, engine, and body?

[evilone]

Before you do, can I have the wheels/tires, engine, and body?

ill take the whole kit if thats going to happen to it

[Rich]

Six million, now go to bed.

[Nick F40]

Personally, I find some of this "revisionism" quite ridiculous, like the WWII airplanes I mentioned in my previous post. I mean, do people really think that you'll turn into a nazi by building one? And if your kid builds one, wouldn't it be a great opportunity for a history lesson?

yes, don't you follow politics???

It was the Nazis that corrupted it into something bad.

kind of like the KKK and the BATTLE flag, no one used the REAL confederate states (confederacy) flag, noooooooo