AMT Beechcraft Staggerwing

[cobraman]

1/48 scale kit. Don't do planes too often but this one just is so cool I have to give it a try. I want to build it with wheels up and in the air. I feel it looks best with the wheels up. Problem is the prop. What to do to have it look like it's spinning. My last effort using a clear disc and trying to paint some blurs on it just did not look good. I will see what I can come up with.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1/48 scale kit. Problem is the prop. What to do to have it look like it's spinning. My last effort using a clear disc and trying to paint some blurs on it just did not look good. I will see what I can come up with.

Here's a thought. They have 'em in 1/48, and if you look at the bottom of the page, it says they'll send you one free sample.  

http://www.propblur.com/

[unclescott58]

A great kit, of my all time favorite airplane. I have a couple in my collection. Including one from Round 2s must recent release. A very cool looking and very fast plane in its day.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by unclescott58

[cobraman]

Thanks ! I have seen those prop blurs last time I built a plane for my bil. Didn't care much for them but they would be a far sight better than anything I could come up with so...... I need to look into it again.

[Snake45]

Blurred prop blades is a photographic effect and is not seen in real life. All attempts to "model" it look stupid for that reason.

Either use a clear disk (chuck it in a Dremel and hit it with 0000 steel wool) or just cut the blades off completely. Either looks infinitely better than "blurred blades" of any kind.

The best solution, of course, would be to motorize the prop. (Reverse the blades and you can use your model for a cool desk fan.)

[Ace-Garageguy]

Blurred prop blades is a photographic effect and is not seen in real life. All attempts to "model" it look stupid for that reason.

While that's generally true, due to the image-sampling rate of the human eye / brain system (contrary to popular belief, we don't see in a continuous 'stream') and variations in what's known as "persistence of vision" (the effect that makes moving cinema images appear to run together smoothly), some individuals CAN see the "prop blur" effect in reality, depending on conditions and prop RPM.

It's also true that most people today have never seen a prop-driven airplane in anything other than a photograph anyway, so if your intent is to play to a typical audience (or even an aviation enthusiast who's seen a LOT of photos), some of the prop-blur effects for models look pretty good.

There's plenty of info on the web as to how to model various effects, and the propblur.com people will even send you ONE FREE in the scale of your choice to experiment with.

PS. This is a 1/48 photo-etched "propblur.com" prop on a Spirit of St. Louis model. I think it looks pretty good too.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

Sorry, we're going to disagree on this.

The only way you can see "prop blur" in real life is if it's turning fairly slowly and you blink your eyes real fast (you can "stop" the wheels on the car next to you in the fast lane doing this, too, as I found out as a kid).

That F7F pic you posted has about the best "model prop blur" I've ever seen and it still looks awful. To me, anyway. Once you understand what "prop blur" is, it's completely illogical to try to model it (or even paint it on canvas IMHO).

BTW, the Tigercat never flew in the Gull Gray/White scheme, so that model's a phantom or as they say in Model Airplane World, a "whiffer." Looks VERY cool that way, though. If there's any documentation that such an airplane ever actually existed, please let me know, and I'll build one myself!

[cobraman]

To my eye the ones on the twin engine plane look pretty good.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Sorry, we're going to disagree on this.

The only way you can see "prop blur" in real life is if it's turning fairly slowly and you blink your eyes real fast (you can "stop" the wheels on the car next to you in the fast lane doing this, too, as I found out as a kid).

Well, you can read the science and do the math (it's provable, and particularly noticeable at dusk or dark, where a source of illumination is operating at close to the same frequency as the sampling rate of the human eye / brain system...and I DON'T mean a strobe) but if you'd prefer to stick to your opinion, s'OK by me. But I've SEEN it....without blinking fast. I've seen the spokes on car wheels in the lane next to me appear to stop as well. Frankly, I had a hard time believing I was actually seeing what I was seeing...which is what got me going down the research rabbit-hole many years ago as to the 'sampling rate' of human optical processing. But hey...maybe I'm wired differently than you... 

Far as your statement that "Once you understand what "prop blur" is, it's completely illogical to try to model it (or even paint it on canvas IMHO)", I have to disagree with that on purely aesthetic grounds. To me, these aircraft would look pretty ridiculous with stopped prop blades, or nothing there at all. But that's just my totally subjective personal opinion, no science about it. 

                                                                                                 

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

To my eye the ones on the twin engine plane look pretty good.

They look pretty good to me too, but some of the ones using clear plastic discs, as Snake recommends, look very good too.

A google image search for "model prop blur" brings up a lot of pictures of various attempts at getting the effect, with varying degrees of success.

I think this is about the best of the best I've seen so far...and here's how to do it...   http://gregers.fr.yuku.com/topic/11537/Prop-blur-tutorial-Picture-heavy#.WCti1C0rKM8

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

BTW, the Tigercat never flew in the Gull Gray/White scheme, so that model's a phantom or as they say in Model Airplane World, a "whiffer." Looks VERY cool that way, though. If there's any documentation that such an airplane ever actually existed, please let me know, and I'll build one myself!

No argument there sir. Definitely NOT within my sphere of knowledge.  

Anyway, I hadn't intended to get on a big digression thing that takes away from Ray's Staggerwing build, but just to show some possibilities for doing a "spinning" prop.

Snake's idea of putting a little electric motor in the thing to REALLY spin it would be pretty cool too. There are lots of tiny DC motors available now for things like miniature helos and drones, so it's entirely do-able.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[cobraman]

Time being a factor I think I will try the clear disc version.

[Snake45]

Here's a good photo of what your eye will really see. It's all a matter of shutter speed. It's not uncommon to see sunlight glinting off the blades as they come through one particular spot, but you won't be able to count blades when this is happening. I defy you to tell me how many blades are on the prop of this homebuilt mini-Mustang. Two? Three? Four? Impossible to say from this pic.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Snake45

[Snake45]

Well, you can read the science and do the math (it's provable, and particularly noticeable at dusk or dark, where a source of illumination is operating at close to the same frequency as the sampling rate of the human eye / brain system...and I DON'T mean a strobe) but if you'd prefer to stick to your opinion, s'OK by me. But I've SEEN it....without blinking fast. I've seen the spokes on car wheels in the lane next to me appear to stop as well. Frankly, I had a hard time believing I was actually seeing what I was seeing...which is what got me going down the research rabbit-hole many years ago as to the 'sampling rate' of human optical processing. But hey...maybe I'm wired differently than you... 

Far as your statement that "Once you understand what "prop blur" is, it's completely illogical to try to model it (or even paint it on canvas IMHO)", I have to disagree with that on purely aesthetic grounds. To me, these aircraft would look pretty ridiculous with stopped prop blades, or nothing there at all. But that's just my totally subjective personal opinion, no science about it. 

                                                                                                 

 

To me, these paintings are just one step up from bad '50s model airplane box art (or comic books) with "speed lines" coming off the wingtips and tail.

This is a case where a good artist can actually paint something MORE realistic than a camera can capture.

[cobraman]

Question for the aircraft builders. Painting the fuselage. Most I have ever built are two halves. Which is better, Paint the 2 halves and then assemble and touch up seam or assemble the two halves and mask off interior best I can and spray as a unit. Thanks.

[Snake45]

Question for the aircraft builders. Painting the fuselage. Most I have ever built are two halves. Which is better, Paint the 2 halves and then assemble and touch up seam or assemble the two halves and mask off interior best I can and spray as a unit. Thanks.

Paint and build interior, build fuselage, mask off windows, paint fuselage. That's the way it's done. (In most cases you build the complete airframe before painting, but with biplanes, you usually leave one wing off for painting.)

[cobraman]

That's what I will do , thanks !

[cobraman]

I have the sub assemblies painted. Used Krylon Short Cuts Sun Yellow. Next I will apply decals and then shoot some clear. The two halves fit together great until I installed the interior. Try as I might I could not not get it to fit right. I was going to grind down the sides of the interior but decided I am going to "punk" out and just black out the windows.

[Flynlo]

They look pretty good to me too, but some of the ones using clear plastic discs, as Snake recommends, look very good too.

A google image search for "model prop blur" brings up a lot of pictures of various attempts at getting the effect, with varying degrees of success.

I think this is about the best of the best I've seen so far...and here's how to do it...   http://gregers.fr.yuku.com/topic/11537/Prop-blur-tutorial-Picture-heavy#.WCti1C0rKM8

 

Nice work so far on the staggerwing!
I used this technique quite convincingly on a 1/48 scale P-51that I built for a friend. I also airprushed the yellow for the warning tip on the prop for added realism effect. Remember, the only opinion that matters is yours so experiment to find a method that you are pleased with...it is YOUR canvas afterall.

By the way, this prop with one white blade was quite visible to the naked eye even at speed where it looked like it was turning entirely too slow...even with the R4360 at maximum grunt (allowing for today's fuel anyways)

Now for a real challenge, try to model this:

Also quite visible to the naked eye and it extended almost to the tail by liftoff.

This is a funtion of relative humidity and the speed of localized airflow over a surface. This same effect can be seen as the "speed Lines" Snake scoffs at in modern jets AND at least some WW II fifghters (I have personally seen this on Spitfires and Corsairs)

 

 

[Snake45]

This is a funtion of relative humidity and the speed of localized airflow over a surface. This same effect can be seen as the "speed Lines" Snake scoffs at in modern jets AND at least some WW II fifghters (I have personally seen this on Spitfires and Corsairs)

 

 

I've seen that too, in both pics, film, vids, and real life. It's fairly rare, and not what I was talking about with the '50s box art "speed lines." As you probably know.

[Ace-Garageguy]

By the way, this prop with one white blade was quite visible to the naked eye even at speed where it looked like it was turning entirely too slow...

And THAT, boys and girls, is also the effect of the image sampling-rate of the human optic system that I began explaining above.

The effect is exactly the same as the one that makes moving-pictures of rotating prop blades sometimes appear to stop or reverse or even distort oddly.

Ain't science fun?  

Edited November 19, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[cobraman]

Here is where we are to day.

[Flynlo]

Looking good Ray!

[unclescott58]

I agree. It's looking pretty good.

R. Scott Aho

 

[bamadon]

That is coming along really well. I used to do a lot of aircraft models and enjoy seeing them here.