The French Ford Flathead

[rel14]

 Ran across a site about flatheads,, And the French Ford flathead, made only in france, was us in there military up to the mid 80's ( easy to repair and lasted forever) Its 30 pounds heavier,  BUT it can be bore to over 334 c.i.  Its a far better flathead to build Horsepower out of

then the America made one,,   Thought it was pretty interesting to read about and know...

 

P.S.

 some other Fords, my cousins dog groomer gave me...

              51-66 consul 4  UK

             61-77 Essex V4  UK

             62-81 cologne V4  Germany

             59-02 Kent     UK

             67-80 crossflow

            83-95  CHT     brazil

            02-16 ford Australia barra  I6

           99-current   Aston Marlin 6.0L   V12

              some other fords you don't see or hear about...

Edited December 7, 2017 by rel14

[Art Anderson]

51 minutes ago, rel14 said:

 Ran across a site about flatheads,, And the French Ford flathead, made only in france, was us in there military up to the mid 80's ( easy to repair and lasted forever) Its 30 pounds heavier,  BUT it can be bore to over 334 c.i.  Its a far better flathead to build Horsepower out of

then the America made one,,   Thought it was pretty interesting to read about and know...

I believe that French flathead mentioned, was pretty much the same as Ford's heavy duty truck V8 (which also went on to power the 1949-51 Lincolns.   Ford of France and later, Simca also produced a variant of the diminuitive V8-60, and that engine out into the 1960's.

Art

[espo]

I remember reading in one of the enthusiast magazines about a big stash of these engines being offered by the French Army like a War Surplus Sale or something. As I recall H & H Flatheads was going to get some to rework and offer for sale. I don't know if that ever happened as I have never seen them offered, but that was part of the information in the article. One of the reasons for the additional engine weight was supposed to be because of the different alloy makeup of the engine blocks and that would make since with the extreme longevity of the engines in sever service.  

[Flat32]

18 hours ago, Art Anderson said:

I believe that French flathead mentioned, was pretty much the same as Ford's heavy duty truck V8 (which also went on to power the 1949-51 Lincolns. 

Was more or less an 8ba with the early style integral bell housing. They were 239 cu. in., however there may have been a 255" version with 4" stroke.  They were not the big block like was in the Lincoln and F-8 ford trucks.

[rel14]

from what I read, the French block were heavier with extre metal in all the right places, and they had 30% more nickel in the casting.  its amazing they used them up in the 80's and early 90's.    Old flatheads never die.  Never used in USA, until france changed over to newer vechiles in the 80's 90'. 

[1930fordpickup]

Didn't they use them for portable air compressors and generators over their also?  Maybe just urban legend about that.  With better modern casting techniques  I bet they are a better product. 

[Art Anderson]

4 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

Didn't they use them for portable air compressors and generators over their also?  Maybe just urban legend about that.  With better modern casting techniques  I bet they are a better product.   This could make a fascinating model project!  #1 and #7 cylinder on this side of the engine, along with  #3 and #5 cylinders on the left side powered the thing while cylinders 2, 3, 5 and 8 functioned as the air compressor.

Don't know about the French, but the US air compressor manufacturer  Schramm built large aircompressors out of US-produced Ford flathead V8's!    

Edited December 6, 2017 by Art Anderson

[1930fordpickup]

That is interesting Art.  Next door neighbor when I was a kid told me about how gas powered air compressors they had at Teledyne were like this.  After a while as an adult I was thinking he was pulling my leg. They do exist.  He was never in service so he had to see them there. They did build Jet Engine parts for the Government there. 

[Junkman]

The French built three Ford Flathead V8s. One of them was smaller than the smallest US version, another one was bigger.

Let me explain.

In the immediate post war years, Ford USA unloaded its small car project onto Ford SAF, who produced it from 1948 as the Ford Vedette,
with the pre war 2,158 cc (132 CI) 'Aquilon' V8, a locally built member of the Flathead family, which was a carried over from the pre war Matford V8.

They also produced a truck range, called Cargo, with locally produced 3,923 cc (239 CI) and 4,184 cc (255 CI) V8s, also members of the Flathead family.
Some of the 3.9 litre engines were also fitted to luxury versions of the Vedette as the 'Mistral' V8.

All these engines follow the US design principles, but contrary to them are 100% metric and there are numerous other differences to make them
sustain 'European driving habits' according to then Ford France director François Lehideux.

In 1954, Simca took over the Poissy plant of Ford SAF, where the Vedette and Cargo V8s were built.
The Poissy plant was integrated into the Simca operations and the Vedettes and Cargos were now badged Simca.

The Vedette was also built in Brazil, where it lasted until 1969, as the Simca Esplanada, complete avec Aquilon V8, when it was finally replaced with
a version of the US Dodge Dart, after the Chrysler takeover of Simca. In France, the Aquillon was retired with the demise of the Vedette in 1961.

By this time, the Simca Cargo trucks were largely fitted with diesels, for obvious reasons.
Only one model, the Simca Marmon 4x4 truck, which was exclusively built for the French and some former colonial armies, soldiered on (oh, the pun!)
with the 4.2 litre Flathead V8 until production ended in 1973.
Some of these Marmons indeed remained in military service into the 90s and many decommissioned ones are still used or in preservation.
All the while these Marmons were phased out by the French army, I bought up crated 'surplus' engines, ultimately ending up with about 50 of them.
Pretty much all of them found their way into Flathead powered hot rods in BeNeLux, the UK and Scandinavia.
 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Junkman

[Junkman]

The Flathead V8 also was alive and well in Germany until 1961.
Ford Werke AG used a version of the 239 in their FK (Ford Köln) Series trucks.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Junkman

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Junkman said:

...Let me explain..

...I bought up crated 'surplus' engines, ultimately ending up with about 50 of them.
 

Good to hear the real deal from someone with first-hand experience. 

Sure beats "I heard it from my cousin's dog's groomer's mother's boyfriend's son-in-law, who thinks he remembers hearing a rumor about an article in a magazine".  

There's a company Stateside that handled a bunch of them too...

http://www.sfflatheads.com/about-us-truth-about-us-and-the-stuff/

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[Junkman]

The French "big block" flatty can be made to look like a wartime US Ford V8 by swapping over the cylinder heads and distributor,
which will fit with a bit of tweaking. You will also need a US camshaft to drive the US dizzy.
The German flatty looks like a pre war US Ford V8, because that's exactly what it is.

Another interesting (for those interested) story is what was done to some of the Aquilons in Brazil after Chrysler had taken control of Simca.
They developped an Ardunesque hemi head OHV upgrade, which was available as an option for the Esplanada.

Yeah, this is what you get if the Mopar guys tweak your Flathead.

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Junkman

[Dan Still]

Hot Rod Magazine 03-2023 has an article regarding a flattie with a French sourced block whose owner is Dick Raczuk of Kool Tools. Easily one of the finest looking engines I have ever seen. 204 hp 305 lb ft of torque at 2,700 rpm. for a respectable performance.

[Ace-Garageguy]

16 hours ago, Dan Still said:

Hot Rod Magazine 03-2023 has an article regarding a flattie with a French sourced block whose owner is Dick Raczuk of Kool Tools. Easily one of the finest looking engines I have ever seen. 204 hp 305 lb ft of torque at 2,700 rpm. for a respectable performance.

Good to know. Thanks.

[Richard Bartrop]

French Ford Vedette given the custom treatment.