Freightliner COE Questions

[TheSDTrucker]

I have a few questions about the AMT White Freightliner cabovers (DD with sleeper)

1. What year of Freightliner is the kit based off of? What confuses me is the steps. Most early 70s Freightliner cabovers I've seen just have a looped strap for a step under the door and behind the front wheels. It appears that 1975 the style of steps on the kit came out, but if I remember correctly White Freightliner split and just became Freightliner. 

2. How common was the Detroit 8v71T in Freightliner cabovers? I have a resin 8v71T/8v92 that has been sitting around for a while that I want to use in place of the stock Cummins.

If anyone can help, it will be greatly appreciated. 

Top picture is a 1975, bottom picture is a 1970. Notice the difference in the steps leading into the door.

Edited January 2, 2018 by TheSDTrucker
Miss spelled title

[Jim B]

The information that I have shows that the kit is a 1971-73 White-Freightliner WFT7564T.  As to the Detroit Diesel 8V71T, most heavy trucks could be spec'd out with whatever engine you wanted.  The kit's (I believe) is a Cummins NH250.

[TheSDTrucker]

1 hour ago, Jim B said:

The information that I have shows that the kit is a 1971-73 White-Freightliner WFT7564T.  As to the Detroit Diesel 8V71T, most heavy trucks could be spec'd out with whatever engine you wanted.  The kit's (I believe) is a Cummins NH250.

The kit comes with an NH250, but I wanted to make it a little more unique. Thank you for the information you shared, I really appreciate it.

[Jim B]

Good luck with your build.  Stuffing a 8V71T under there should be interesting.

[Muncie]

I will also go with 1971-73.  the AMT cab is a 61 series raised cab which was available say, ohhh... about 1969 thru the eaerly '80's.  other things in the kit were more specifically available on Freightliner 1971-73..  The loop step in the wheel well under the door was used on the 61 series cab (yellow cab above) until the 61 series "rasied" cab was introduced with the box step under the door.  Early box steps were fabricated assemblies until they were replaced in production with the formed step under the door like the silver cab above.  Raised cabs had the box step under the door and either loop cab entry steps or ladder steps - loop standard, ladder optional.  The fabricated ladder step like the AMT kit was the first version - fabricated box step and fabricated ladder.  Later versions have the formed step frame. 

In the 1970's, Freightliner was owned by Consolidated Freightways.  Way back in the '50's, CF didn't want to sell trucks so they set up a 25 year marketing agreement with White to handle the marketing and sales. The agreement expired in 1976 in the U.S. and a couple of years later in Canada.  That is when the nameplates changed on the cab.

The 1975 in the top picture is a 71 series "stretch" cab - 4"wider then the raised cab to accommodate the Super Cooling Power Package for larger engines.  Very generally speaking, for a certain time period in the 70's, fleets specced lower horsepower raised cabs and stretch cabs with more horsepower were the premium truck.

Hope this helps

 

 

 

[TheSDTrucker]

2 hours ago, Muncie said:

I will also go with 1971-73.  the AMT cab is a 61 series raised cab which was available say, ohhh... about 1969 thru the eaerly '80's.  other things in the kit were more specifically available on Freightliner 1971-73..  The loop step in the wheel well under the door was used on the 61 series cab (yellow cab above) until the 61 series "rasied" cab was introduced with the box step under the door.  Early box steps were fabricated assemblies until they were replaced in production with the formed step under the door like the silver cab above.  Raised cabs had the box step under the door and either loop cab entry steps or ladder steps - loop standard, ladder optional.  The fabricated ladder step like the AMT kit was the first version - fabricated box step and fabricated ladder.  Later versions have the formed step frame. 

In the 1970's, Freightliner was owned by Consolidated Freightways.  Way back in the '50's, CF didn't want to sell trucks so they set up a 25 year marketing agreement with White to handle the marketing and sales. The agreement expired in 1976 in the U.S. and a couple of years later in Canada.  That is when the nameplates changed on the cab.

The 1975 in the top picture is a 71 series "stretch" cab - 4"wider then the raised cab to accommodate the Super Cooling Power Package for larger engines.  Very generally speaking, for a certain time period in the 70's, fleets specced lower horsepower raised cabs and stretch cabs with more horsepower were the premium truck.

Hope this helps

 

 

 

Wow! That was a lot of useful information. I kind of had an idea that there was a few modifications for the same truck throughout an assembly line, but your explanation made it really clear. Thank you.

The picture below is a picture of the steps of the truck I am basing my build off of. From your information, it's a 61 series "raised cab" with the lower loop strap.

[TheSDTrucker]

2 hours ago, Jim B said:

Good luck with your build.  Stuffing a 8V71T under there should be interesting.

Haha, it will be a challenge because I need to make a custom mounting assembly for the engine, and I need to find a way to extend the driveshaft a little bit and a couple other things like a modified shifting linkage and a custom radiator. I am going to try my hardest though, because I figured, if the real thing can have one, I can stuff one in a model.

[Jim B]

The 8V71T is in the AMT Kenworth Aerodyne kit.

[TheSDTrucker]

27 minutes ago, Jim B said:

The 8V71T is in the AMT Kenworth Aerodyne kit.

I'll keep that in mind if I ever find myself looking for a donor kit. As far as the engine goes, I have a resin kit from Auslowe that I assembled a while back that I will be using.

[Muncie]

1 hour ago, TheSDTrucker said:

Wow! That was a lot of useful information. I kind of had an idea that there was a few modifications for the same truck throughout an assembly line, but your explanation made it really clear. Thank you.

The picture below is a picture of the steps of the truck I am basing my build off of. From your information, it's a 61 series "raised cab" with the lower loop strap.

That'll work - this would be the standard cab entry step for a Freightliner built at the time that the AMT kit represents.  The fabricated box step under the door is what is in the kit.   The loop step and cab skirt modifications are fairly straight forward.  The ends of the loop go all the way up and attach to the cab deck, there is a triangulated brace from the step (at the lower rivets on the skirt) to the deck about 12 inches inboard of the skirt.  

The  box step was changed to the formed step about 1973 (which is one feature that dates the kit).  The standard loop steps were available until 1982 (another memory cell kicked in) when the 61 series raised cab was phased out of production and new FMCSR regulations for COE cab entry made the ladder step standard.

Production changes at Freightliner were more evolutionary than based on model year.  New features went into production when they were ready for prime time. That's why you'll see things that don't fit a specific model year.

Looking forward to seeing you get this one together - interesting project.

[highway]

3 hours ago, TheSDTrucker said:

......and I need to find a way to extend the driveshaft a little bit and a couple other things like a modified shifting linkage and a custom radiator.

The easiest way to extend the driveshaft would be find a piece of plastic, brass, or aluminum tubing that would slide over the kit driveshaft and cut the tubing to the new length you need. You shouldn't really need to do anything to the radiator other than maybe to the shroud depending on how the fan fits or moving it just a bit.

[TheSDTrucker]

1 hour ago, highway said:

The easiest way to extend the driveshaft would be find a piece of plastic, brass, or aluminum tubing that would slide over the kit driveshaft and cut the tubing to the new length you need. You shouldn't really need to do anything to the radiator other than maybe to the shroud depending on how the fan fits or moving it just a bit.

Thank you for your suggestion, I will deffinatly try that as I have plenty of tube stock. As far as the radiator, it is just the shroud I have to modify. As far as I know, I just need to make the shroud diameter larger to fit the slightly bigger fan. I might make a custom shroud out of Evergreen strips.

[TheSDTrucker]

Even though i am a Freightliner fanatic, I feel like I could always learn more. Thank you to everyone who gave me tips. I do have another question, however this time it's a question about the trucks themselves. I noticed that the older Freightliner cabovers seem to have an access door in the grille, can anyone fill me in on what this piece may be?

[Muncie]

It is the door for  the oil check and fill.  Inside the door are two tubes with caps for the oil fill and check. The oil fill tube can be pulled out so it extends past the grill for access.

The tubes attach to the side of the radiator bracket and go back to the engine - varies by engine but it is usually a plate on the block... not sure where on the 8V71T.

Older Freightliners had oil check and fill on the engine so the cab had to be tilted to check the oil.  Another option was oil check and fill at the back of cab in the tunnel.

[highway]

16 minutes ago, TheSDTrucker said:

Even though i am a Freightliner fanatic, I feel like I could always learn more. Thank you to everyone who gave me tips. I do have another question, however this time it's a question about the trucks themselves. I noticed that the older Freightliner cabovers seem to have an access door in the grille, can anyone fill me in on what this piece may be?

My guess, and this is only a guess when it comes to Freightliner COEs because the only cabover I have ever driven was an International, but I would say it is probably an oil dipstick access door. Most cabovers have a door somewhere like that in various positions so you don't have to tilt the cab just to check the oil. 

 

[Fat Brian]

18 hours ago, Jim B said:

The 8V71T is in the AMT Kenworth Aerodyne kit.

Isn't the AMT engine an 8v92T in the Aerodyne kit?

[TheSDTrucker]

40 minutes ago, Fat Brian said:

Isn't the AMT engine an 8v92T in the Aerodyne kit?

I'll have to look, the only real difference in appearance is the valve covers.

[Jim B]

The debate on that continues.  Some people say 8V71T, others say 8V92T.

[TheSDTrucker]

20 minutes ago, Jim B said:

The debate on that continues.  Some people say 8V71T, others say 8V92T.

According to the box, it's an 8v92T. It isn't in English, but it says "8v92T". It's hard to tell for sure though because I just remembered that the early 8v92 valve covers were similar to the 8v71. So the only thing you really have to go off of is what the box says.

Edited January 3, 2018 by TheSDTrucker

[Jim B]

KJ from Double Take Replicas offers the correct 8V92 valve covers.  I have some, and they are quite nice.

http://kdhumphr.wixsite.com/double-take-replicas/product-page/detroit-diesel-8v92-valve-covers

[TheSDTrucker]

23 minutes ago, Jim B said:

KJ from Double Take Replicas offers the correct 8V92 valve covers.  I have some, and they are quite nice.

http://kdhumphr.wixsite.com/double-take-replicas/product-page/detroit-diesel-8v92-valve-covers

I frequent KJ's website quite often, I really like his items. I just recently got a breather tube from his website. I haven't seen those valve covers yet, they do look quite nice. So to me that pretty much says that the AMT Detroit V8 is an 8v92T.

[TheSDTrucker]

16 hours ago, Muncie said:

It is the door for  the oil check and fill.  Inside the door are two tubes with caps for the oil fill and check. The oil fill tube can be pulled out so it extends past the grill for access.

The tubes attach to the side of the radiator bracket and go back to the engine - varies by engine but it is usually a plate on the block... not sure where on the 8V71T.

Older Freightliners had oil check and fill on the engine so the cab had to be tilted to check the oil.  Another option was oil check and fill at the back of cab in the tunnel.

That does make sense now that you mention that. I would like to go to that truck some time to see where all of that is located on a Detroit 8v71. I also wanted to know something else, how many interior upholstery options did Frieghliner have at the time of the WFT7564T? The truck I'm basing mine off of appears to have a black interior, but I've seen red, blue, and beige as well.

Edited January 3, 2018 by TheSDTrucker

[DRIPTROIT 71]

8 minutes ago, TheSDTrucker said:

I frequent KJ's website quite often, I really like his items. I just recently got a breather tube from his website. I haven't seen those valve covers yet, they do look quite nice. So to me that pretty much says that the AMT Detroit V8 is an 8v92T.

Early 92 series engines used the old style valve covers. The AMT GMC General kit also has a 92 without turbo. AMT kits depict the early style valve covers. Later 71 series can be found with 92 style valve covers. Much like some of the variations of the small block Chevrolet, the inside is what is different. The 71 is 71 cubic inches per cylinder, the 92 is 92 cubic inches per cylinder. If you want it to be a 71 paint it Alpine green, (or any color for that matter) and it's a 71. If you want it to be a 92, it's a 92, but you can't paint it yellow and make it a Cat.

[TheSDTrucker]

34 minutes ago, DRIPTROIT 71 said:

Early 92 series engines used the old style valve covers. The AMT GMC General kit also has a 92 without turbo. AMT kits depict the early style valve covers. Later 71 series can be found with 92 style valve covers. Much like some of the variations of the small block Chevrolet, the inside is what is different. The 71 is 71 cubic inches per cylinder, the 92 is 92 cubic inches per cylinder. If you want it to be a 71 paint it Alpine green, (or any color for that matter) and it's a 71. If you want it to be a 92, it's a 92, but you can't paint it yellow and make it a Cat.

I always used to wander why some 71 series had 92 style valve covers, I guess that really makes sense now haha. As far as color goes, I couldn't find any model paints that I liked, so I decided to use alpine green engine enamel for my engine. I really like how sharp the alpine green looks on those old Detroits

[Muncie]

1 hour ago, TheSDTrucker said:

... I also wanted to know something else, how many interior upholstery options did Frieghliner have at the time of the WFT7564T? The truck I'm basing mine off of appears to have a black interior, but I've seen red, blue, and beige as well.

My Freightliner knowledge is based on what I saw in the later part of the 70's, but Freightliner didn't change the interior colors very often so I would say it was the same in 1971-73.

The diamond pattern upholstery in the AMT kit is the Brougham option.   Brougham colors available were blue, red (kind of a burgundy), saddle (tan), and  green (dark avocado - it was the 70's).  I don't remember black upholstery in Brougham but it may have been possible.  The dash and console on the tunnel were molded in black ABS (semi-gloss) with woodgrain instrument panels - black instrument rings.  There were custom shops that could stitch up interiors in other colors that were not offered by Freightliner.  Vintage Freightliner brochures on the internet are the best guide for detail colors.  The letter "C" stitched on the sleeper curtain is an option for a specific customer - it's a rare custom option so I wish AMT had left it plain diamonds.  Brougham came with a metalflake plastic steering wheel to match _i'm not making that up.

The Custom interior level had smooth pattern vinyl upholstery in black or tan. no diamonds.  The standard interior - only specced by a few fleets was able board - probably black in the early 70s - production changed in the mid/late 70's to turf tan.  Able board looked very similar to painted cardboard.  Custom level and standard interiors came with an ivory colored steering wheel.

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Muncie