Pontiac Conversion

[Anglia105E]

My next build is not yet on the workbench, because I am waiting for the resin kit to arrive from the USA and this could take one or two weeks to get to me here in England.

I was wondering if any fellow members have any experience or knowledge of this conversion that I am planning to carry out shortly. Basically, this is a '67 Pontiac Bonneville 4-door in 1:24 scale, and I shall be building a '68 Pontiac Parisienne 4-door ( RHD, Canada ). The issues that I am aware of, include changing the dashboard from LHD to RHD, also changing the double twin vertical headlamps to double twin horizontal headlamps, changing the standard wheels to Ro-Style wheels and adding a vinyl top to the existing roof.

The scale model car will have a paint finish that is Mayfair Maize, which is a pale yellow colour, Pontiac paint code ' Y ' and DuPont 4620L 93-96908, and so far I have not been able to source this paint colour here in UK. The vinyl top will be a brown colour that is sort of a dark tan or caramel and I seem to remember the interior upholstery being black leather. Here is a photo of the 1:1 car that I owned previously in 1977........ there is no engine in the resin kit, but it was a 327 cu in, ( 5.3 litre ) V8 with Auto transmission, graduated windshield tint ( green ) and what we called Ro-Style wheels in the '60's and '70's. This is the only reference photo that I have to work from, and I no longer have the actual car itself, which was registration number FCK 33

David

[Slick Shifter]

The entire tail panel is different from 1967 to 68. Front fenders, hood, bumper, grille all different from 1967 to 68.

You can save yourself about 1000 hours of grief if you can find an MPC 1968 Bonneville to cut up.

The wheels look like Magnum 500s, but don't recall ever seeing them in a 5" bolt circle.

As far as the paint goes, Cadillac & Olds used some light yellows in the 70s and 80s that were very, very close to Mayfair Maize.

Dupli-Color also made a light yellow in their small aerosol 'Import' line. Am thinking they quit making the small cans, though.

1992 Buick Roadmaster Canyon Yellow is also pretty close.

 

posted at 3:36p EST

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Slick Shifter

[espo]

Sounds like an interesting project. I have built models of some of the cars and trucks I have owned in the past and have found it interesting, all of the things that were going on in your life when you owned a particular car. I hope this is a positive experience for you. Some of the Canadian members could offer a lot of technical information on this. From what little I know the Parisienne had Pontiac sheet metal and basically a Chevrolet chassis and engines. This could be a good thing if you should want to have a more detailed chassis and engine. The Bonneville used GM's longer wheel base and overall length. This may or may not be a problem depending on how it looks to your eye next to the photograph.  Good luck to you and please post your progress. I don't know if you can get Model Master paints there. They offer a color called Phoenician Yellow #28102 that is a Ford OEM color but I have used it to make a '65 Chevelle SS and it matches the color GM was using at the time if that's any help.      

[Anglia105E]

2 hours ago, Slick Shifter said:

The entire tail panel is different from 1967 to 68. Front fenders, hood, bumper, grille all different from 1967 to 68.

You can save yourself about 1000 hours of grief if you can find an MPC 1968 Bonneville to cut up.

The wheels look like Magnum 500s, but don't recall ever seeing them in a 5" bolt circle.

As far as the paint goes, Cadillac & Olds used some light yellows in the 70s and 80s that were very, very close to Mayfair Maize.

Dupli-Color also made a light yellow in their small aerosol 'Import' line. Am thinking they quit making the small cans, though.

1992 Buick Roadmaster Canyon Yellow is also pretty close.

 

posted at 3:36p EST

 

 

 

 

Thanks Buz..... and I take your point about saving myself work by going for the '68 version, but I noticed the '68 Bonneville is either 2-door or a convertible, they didn't do a 4-door as a model kit. Interesting information about the paint, which I will take on board, thanks and it is possible that the road wheels were a British thing, so not available in the USA.

David

[Anglia105E]

2 hours ago, espo said:

Sounds like an interesting project. I have built models of some of the cars and trucks I have owned in the past and have found it interesting, all of the things that were going on in your life when you owned a particular car. I hope this is a positive experience for you. Some of the Canadian members could offer a lot of technical information on this. From what little I know the Parisienne had Pontiac sheet metal and basically a Chevrolet chassis and engines. This could be a good thing if you should want to have a more detailed chassis and engine. The Bonneville used GM's longer wheel base and overall length. This may or may not be a problem depending on how it looks to your eye next to the photograph.  Good luck to you and please post your progress. I don't know if you can get Model Master paints there. They offer a color called Phoenician Yellow #28102 that is a Ford OEM color but I have used it to make a '65 Chevelle SS and it matches the color GM was using at the time if that's any help.      

Thanks very much, David....... and I believe you are correct in saying that the engine and chassis were from Chevrolet. Hopefully, some members from Canada might be able to offer useful technical information, as you say. As far as I am aware, the Model Master paints are not available in UK.

Certainly, the process of building a replica of a particular car that you once owned is usually very rewarding, I find. Thanks again for your comments.

David

[Anglia105E]

I think the resin caster guy in Chicago is assuming that I am going to build this car from two kits....... in other words, he thinks that I already have a '68 Pontiac Bonneville 4-door kit, which I don't. This means that I am seeking to convert the '67 Bonneville 4-door resin kit that he is sending me, and without any donor kit parts from the later version. I have plenty of reference photos of '67 and '68 Bonnevilles, and also '67 and '68 Parisiennes, but only one photo of my '68 Parisienne.

Are there any fellow members on MCM Forums, particularly in Canada, who may have detailed information of both the Bonneville and the Parisienne, from '67 and '68, in the form of photos or plan drawings or anything helpful really. I do appreciate any time and effort spent on responding to this request. I would like this build to be an accurate model of the '68 Pontiac Parisienne 4-door as far as possible with my limited skills.

Thanks for looking, guys!

David

[jokar124]

David, try here:   https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/

           and here:   http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/Canada/Pontiac/1968 Pontiac Prestige Brochure/index1.html

Edited September 29, 2019 by jokar124

[Anglia105E]

1 hour ago, jokar124 said:

David, try here:   https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/

           and here:   http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/Canada/Pontiac/1968 Pontiac Prestige Brochure/index1.html

Thanks very much, Jose..... both of your links are interesting and useful. Previously, I did look at the old car brochures site, but I had lost the address.... so thanks for that one. You are the first one to respond to my recent request..... excellent!

David

[jokar124]

You're welcome, David.

[Slick Shifter]

Good Luck, Chief!

Looking forward to your progress pics!

[64Comet404]

You may want to wait a bit before starting the build, David. AMT/Round 2 is supposed to be coming out with a model of the 1967 4 door impala from the TV show Supernatural, which would give you the running gear and roofline you will need for your Parisienne. If you belong to a local club, see if any fellow builders have a couple of tins of Humbrol #6 Yellow you could source. It is a nice pale yellow which I used to use to touch-up my wagon whenever I found a paint chip.

[Rodent]

4 hours ago, 64Comet404 said:

You may want to wait a bit before starting the build, David. AMT/Round 2 is supposed to be coming out with a model of the 1967 4 door impala from the TV show Supernatural, which would give you the running gear and roofline you will need for your Parisienne. If you belong to a local club, see if any fellow builders have a couple of tins of Humbrol #6 Yellow you could source. It is a nice pale yellow which I used to use to touch-up my wagon whenever I found a paint chip.

Agreed. I was going to suggest the same thing. The Impala should have the correct wheelbase if I remember my Canadian Pontiac trivia correctly. Combination of the Impala Sport Sedan and an MPC 68 Bonneville should get you what you need, unless Round 2 screws up the Impala.

[disabled modeler]

Cool project...!   Im a huge fan of the 60s through mid 70s Pontiacs...owned many of them in our family.   I have a different issue with a 68 and others...I want to restore the ones i have but have to find what they need on a very small budget.   Big Pontiacs were classy cars with power.  Hope you can get your conversion built.

[Anglia105E]

16 hours ago, Slick Shifter said:

Good Luck, Chief!

Looking forward to your progress pics!

Thanks, Buz

David

[Anglia105E]

7 hours ago, Rodent said:

Agreed. I was going to suggest the same thing. The Impala should have the correct wheelbase if I remember my Canadian Pontiac trivia correctly. Combination of the Impala Sport Sedan and an MPC 68 Bonneville should get you what you need, unless Round 2 screws up the Impala.

Useful information, Steve.... thank you....... and I hadn't realised the wheelbase of the '67 Bonneville was different to the '68 Parisienne.

The problem is that I have had to shell out quite a bit more money for the '67 Bonneville 4-door resin kit than I had anticipated, most of it in shipping, so I wasn't planning to buy two more donor kits ! Of course, based on what you have said I shall check out the AMT / Round 2 Impala Sport Sedan and also the MPC '68 Bonneville.

David

[Anglia105E]

12 hours ago, 64Comet404 said:

You may want to wait a bit before starting the build, David. AMT/Round 2 is supposed to be coming out with a model of the 1967 4 door impala from the TV show Supernatural, which would give you the running gear and roofline you will need for your Parisienne. If you belong to a local club, see if any fellow builders have a couple of tins of Humbrol #6 Yellow you could source. It is a nice pale yellow which I used to use to touch-up my wagon whenever I found a paint chip.

Useful information, Ken.... thank you....... and I hadn't realised the wheelbase of the '67 Bonneville was different to the '68 Parisienne.

The problem is that I have had to shell out quite a bit more money for the '67 Bonneville 4-door resin kit than I had anticipated, most of it in shipping, so I wasn't planning to buy two more donor kits ! Of course, based on what you have said I shall check out the AMT / Round 2 Impala Sport Sedan and also the MPC '68 Bonneville. My latest copy of the Humbrol paint chart shows #5 and #7 but misses out #6 in the Gloss colours, so not sure if the pale yellow is still available from Humbrol ?

David

[Anglia105E]

1 hour ago, disabled modeler said:

Cool project...!   Im a huge fan of the 60s through mid 70s Pontiacs...owned many of them in our family.   I have a different issue with a 68 and others...I want to restore the ones i have but have to find what they need on a very small budget.   Big Pontiacs were classy cars with power.  Hope you can get your conversion built.

Hi Mark...... nice to hear from a fellow Pontiac enthusiast, and it seems that I need to do some further research on the '67 and '68 Bonneville and Parisienne, which I thought were very similar...... but new information from members on here suggest not so similar.

Thanks for your encouragement !

David

[Rodent]

I believe that all of the Parisiennes were built on the Chevrolet chassis which had a 119" wheelbase in 1968. The '68 Bonneville had a 124" wheelbase.

[421gto]

Agree on Chevy chassis, running gear etc, but used the Catalina body size not the larger Bonneville size.

Also you'll need at the least a 65 Chevy dash as the UK RHD didnt use the Pontiac dash. Interior pattern & trim is Pontiac from memory, but not sure on the steering wheel.

I think I have a UK Lendrum & Hartman dealers brochure for UK range of imported US/Canadian cars. If you want (and if I can find it...) I can scan it for you.

Ive a bunch of UK registered Parisienne pictures saved from my old website (but not one of yours !), send me a message and I'll sort them out for you.

Also try reidbrand on Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/45904802@N08/

He's a decent bloke who might be able to help you with any other details.

If you want to do it in 1/43, Dinky Toys did a 68 Parisienne. Easily obtainable but no interior detail, or opening hood etc.

RHD dash picture for you

 

[Anglia105E]

4 hours ago, Rodent said:

I believe that all of the Parisiennes were built on the Chevrolet chassis which had a 119" wheelbase in 1968. The '68 Bonneville had a 124" wheelbase.

Okay, Steve...... so '68 Parisienne wheelbase is 119 inches, and '68 Bonneville wheelbase is 124 inches, so 5 inches shorter. Done the maths, so 5 inches divided by 24 is 0.2 inches.... or 5 inches = 127 mm, divided by 24 is 5.3 mm shorter wheelbase for the Parisienne. The '67 Bonneville wheelbase is also 124 inches, I see.

Thanks for those numbers, and of course every millimetre counts when you are building a scale model car accurately..... millimetre perfect, I always say!

David

[Can-Con]

42 minutes ago, Anglia105E said:

Okay, Steve...... so '68 Parisienne wheelbase is 119 inches, and '68 Bonneville wheelbase is 124 inches, so 5 inches shorter. Done the maths, so 5 inches divided by 24 is 0.2 inches.... or 5 inches = 127 mm, divided by 24 is 5.3 mm shorter wheelbase for the Parisienne. The '67 Bonneville wheelbase is also 124 inches, I see.

Thanks for those numbers, and of course every millimetre counts when you are building a scale model car accurately..... millimetre perfect, I always say!

David

David, something else to take into consideration is the overall length of the body 

a Parisienne is 216.5 inches long

a Bonneville is 223.5 inches long

So, there's a 7 inch difference in overall length. 5 inches difference in wheelbase. The other 2 inches is lost behind the rear wheels. 

To shorten the Bonneville body down to the length of the Parisienne can get quite complicated when it comes to the rear 1/4 panels because of the way they flare up just behind the door and then back down again.  

One of my uncles had a white Grand Parisienne Brougham when I was in grade school. Great looking car.  Looked like the one in this pic but white with brown roof, white with brown inside also, buckets with console. Quite a rare car, I'd imagine. I've often thought of building something similar but just can't bring myself to cut into a 53 year old body. I see Vic's resin has a '68 sometimes , might be worth looking into.

BTW, just to make things simpler, one inch = very close to 1 MM in 1/25 scale. 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Can-Con

[Anglia105E]

2 hours ago, 421gto said:

Agree on Chevy chassis, running gear etc, but used the Catalina body size not the larger Bonneville size.

Also you'll need at the least a 65 Chevy dash as the UK RHD didnt use the Pontiac dash. Interior pattern & trim is Pontiac from memory, but not sure on the steering wheel.

I think I have a UK Lendrum & Hartman dealers brochure for UK range of imported US/Canadian cars. If you want (and if I can find it...) I can scan it for you.

Ive a bunch of UK registered Parisienne pictures saved from my old website (but not one of yours !), send me a message and I'll sort them out for you.

Also try reidbrand on Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/45904802@N08/

He's a decent bloke who might be able to help you with any other details.

If you want to do it in 1/43, Dinky Toys did a 68 Parisienne. Easily obtainable but no interior detail, or opening hood etc.

RHD dash picture for you

 

Cheers, Simon..... and it's good to hear from a Pontiac expert here in England. I am surprised that a Chevy dashboard was used for UK RHD, and not Pontiac.

Yes, I would be interested in a scanned copy of the dealer brochure, but don't worry if you can't find it easily, and any photos are always particularly useful.

I did have a look at the 1:43 scale Dinky version of the Parisienne, but somehow the roof line did not look right to me. I do build 1:43 scale dioramas and model cars, as well as 1:24 scale dioramas and built kits. I can PM you regarding the brochure and photos, thanks. I will have a look at reidbrand also on Flickr.

David

[64Comet404]

 

9 hours ago, Anglia105E said:

Useful information, Ken.... thank you....... and I hadn't realised the wheelbase of the '67 Bonneville was different to the '68 Parisienne.

The problem is that I have had to shell out quite a bit more money for the '67 Bonneville 4-door resin kit than I had anticipated, most of it in shipping, so I wasn't planning to buy two more donor kits ! Of course, based on what you have said I shall check out the AMT / Round 2 Impala Sport Sedan and also the MPC '68 Bonneville. My latest copy of the Humbrol paint chart shows #5 and #7 but misses out #6 in the Gloss colours, so not sure if the pale yellow is still available from Humbrol ?

David

The colour has been discontinued for a few years, so you will need to find a modeller who has a tin or two in their stash. The nice thing about Humbrol enamels is that they rarely dry out or go bad; I have a number of tins which are well over 50 years old, and they still work beautifully!

[Anglia105E]

2 hours ago, Can-Con said:

David, something else to take into consideration is the overall length of the body 

a Parisienne is 216.5 inches long

a Bonneville is 223.5 inches long

So, there's a 7 inch difference in overall length. 5 inches difference in wheelbase. The other 2 inches is lost behind the rear wheels. 

One of my uncles had a white Grand Parisienne Brougham when I was in grade school. Great looking car.  Looked like the one in this pic but white with brown roof, white with brown inside also, buckets with console. Quite a rare car, I'd imagine.

Okay thanks, Steve..... I see how the overall length extends to 7 inches, which I will take into account when work commences. I notice the Grande Parisienne has covered in headlamps as part of the front grille design, and also the rear wheels are partly covered by additional body panels, which we British used to refer to as being ' spats ' during the '50's. Your uncle's Grande Parisienne Brougham must have been quite some motor car in it's day, and rare too.

David