John Goschke Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 Awesome thread here! Thanks for a great tutorial. The mocked up model looks just perfect!
Dennis Lacy Posted February 13, 2009 Author Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Bernard and Bryce: Thank you very much for the pictures of the AMT 21-stud engine! Both versions look great. Even without the aftermarket detail parts the engine builds up very nice. Now I'm definately gonna have to get me one. John: Thank you for your nice compliments. Comming from you, they mean a lot. Edited February 13, 2009 by Dennis Lacy
Taxdude Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Dennis, Your build is very cool and i really like the way that you are laying out the build in steps. The only suggestion that I have is that your exhaust is to modern for the era. I think straight pipes would be more period correct, but that is just me. Fred Stuck in my recliner with a blown-up knee, I'm so bored
Dennis Lacy Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 Taxdude: That you for the nice compliments! In regards to the exhaust: It was actually more common to see mufflers on a roadster than not and there were several dedicated suppliers of mufflers for the hot rod crowd. In quite a few cases a car might be set up so that it had straight pipes for dry lakes racing that could be capped and routed through a muffled system and tailpipes for street use. There were a handfull of cars that did run straight pipes or headers only on the streets and suffered continous harrassment from the law. The roadster I'm building is representative of a nice, street driven hot rod that would not "competatively" participate in dry lakes racing. To that end I used the muffler section from Revell's '32 Ford kits as they are representative of a typical glass-packed muffler, which is era correct.
Taxdude Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Ah i see your point and i guess that i wasn't clear. What I meant was a simplified straighter exhaust with Smitty mufflers, 20-22" mounted closer to the engine. Fred
Dennis Lacy Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 UDATE TIME (finally) - YAY! Well, I finally had a chance to get some work done on the roadster Sunday morning and last night and things are progressing nicely despite a slight step backwards, then forward again which I will explain in a bit. If you go back to my first picture postings I show a side-by-side comparison of the kit 1-piece fender / floor unit and the modified floor with the fenders cut away and installed in the body. I stated that when everything was trimmed away there were gaps on either side of the center floor section and they are obvious in the picture. I tried to talk myself into living with this, with the justification that when everything was painted and the inside of the body blacked-out it wouldn’t be that obvious. But, it was eating away at me so I found a suitable piece of plastic and cut the small, wedge-shaped filler pieces out, tediously fitted them, then glued them in. Not only does it look better (duh!), but it added a ton of strength to the body. The strips ended up being 1/16" wide at one end, 1" long and taper to fine point. There’s still have some finish work to do on them. With the floor filler strips coming along I turned my attention to making interior panels and a seat. The side pieces started out from the Revell ‘32 roadster. I trimmed away the wide top rib leaving only the vertical rolled pleats. I then cut them vertically making the kick-panels separate pieces. Next I manipulated all four pieces by hand to match the contours of the roadster body. They still need a little fine-fitting, but they are close. I might have to relieve the backside a little here and there to get a perfect fit, we’ll see. The seat started out as the stock front bench seat from an AMT ‘32 phaeton. The width and wide, rolled pleat design were perfect and only the height needed to be modified. I trimmed 3/16" off the bottom riser to lower the seat down and trimmed the top to follow the shape of the body.
Dennis Lacy Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 PROBLEM TIME... As I was trying to mock up the front suspension in the frame for some pictures, I ran into my first problem with this build. Before, everything fit okay but now that the tierod had been glued in place the split wishbones would not articulate to allow the spring to fit into the front cross member. If forced into place the axle was pulled back and the spring forward = not good! I also had not been totally happy with the front spring I used as it didn’t locate very solidly and I was foreseeing issues when it came time to final assemble. So, I decided to scrap the front axle and spring and use the dropped I-beam axle from Monogram’s ‘33 Ford 3-window. I transferred the wheel spindles from the first axle to it’s replacement. The new axle fits the model A front cross member much better and the split wishbones now run parallel to the frame, whereas before they angled up to the frame brackets. The former axle also hung very low to the ground as it had a deep drop and the new one is farther from the ground and, to me, looks much better. The new axle is currently soaking to remove the plating.
Dennis Lacy Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 More pictures! And now the fun part - mock up pictures! If you compare these pictures to the first postings it will become obvious that the front end is a bit lower with the new front axle / spring and the car has a more pronounced forward rake. I like the new stance better. To me, the proportions are better and the car looks more aggressive from the front and rear views. I also installed the headlights for this mock-up which are the optional smaller lights from the Revell ‘32 kits. Next steps will be to finish the revised front suspension set-up, fine tune the interior fit and make a front floor board / toe panel. Stay tuned!
Bernard Kron Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Really nice interior. I agree that the front looks better dropped down a bit more. However, just my opinion, but I would consider lowering the rear just a tad. One way to accomplish that is to locate the spring mounting at the O'Clock position on the backing plates instead of 12 o'clock as is normally found on most model kits. The only problem is that this moves the rear axle forward a bit which can be a serious issue if you can't adjust the rear crossmember location. On my '29 I changed the frame from the '32 Revell rear setup to one using the AMT '29 costsmember so I had the ability to do this and lower the rear slightly in the bargain. The build looks terrific so far. B.
Dennis Lacy Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 Thanks Bernard! I agree that from the side view it may look a bit better with the back a little lower and less rake, but doing so would require either extending the frame and putting the spring behind the axle (like you said) or Z'ing the frame. Neither option is practical as I would have to cut up the floor, and that's not an option. It is what it is and I don't think it looks bad. One thing I do like is the gap between the radius of the tire and the wheel well is uniform.
Bernard Kron Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 ... I would have to cut up the floor, and that's not an option. It is what it is and I don't think it looks bad. ... I agree, it doesn't look bad at all! Once you get some color on the car the total look should hook up and settle in. Build shots in raw plastic are the crueliest of all, but at least they keep us honest...
Fletch Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Dennis, another option you might want to explore to get the rear down a bit is the spring kit from Replicas and Miniatures of Maryland. Norm has a 2 pack of Model A springs. One is stock height and the other is reduced in height by a 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch. I don't know if you've used Norm's products or not, but I can vouch for the quality and speed that he processes orders. I would recommend his resin products to any and everyone. BTW, the '29 is looking great. I love the interior. You can bet that some of your tip and tricks will find their way into my next '29 roadster. Thank you for the in depth coverage.
Raul_Perez Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Very nice, Dennis!! Yes, the back could go down just a bit, but it also looks pretty mean just the way it is!! Keep up the GREAT work!! Later,
Slim Louis Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Not only is this a great WIP but a great history lesson, too! Excellent period-correct build! Anxious to see more!
Dennis Lacy Posted February 19, 2009 Author Posted February 19, 2009 Fletch: Thanks for the heads-up on the aftermarket rear springs. If you look at the rear shots from my newest batch of pictures, it can be seen that the rear axle is lowered and could only go about another 1/16" before it's against the cross member. To me, the 1/16" isn't worth the fuss. I have already flatened the kit spring as much as possible. Like I said, it is what it is and it aint bad. And I'm happy to hear my build has given you some ideas for your future builds, that's why we're all here! Raul and Slim: Thank you very much!
John Goschke Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Mockup looks great, Dennis! I like the stance as it is now, particularly the way the outline of the rear tire complements the wheel arch. Well-engineered, authentic-looking build. At some point you may want to check whether those slicks would've been available at that period. Those tires were originally present in early-mid '60s AMT kits and were the second type of drag slick they used. Finding a period perfect, matched, set of big 'n littles for a late-forties-early fifities car is a bitch!
Bernard Kron Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) ...At some point you may want to check whether those slicks would've been available at that period. Those tires were originally present in early-mid '60s AMT kits and were the second type of drag slick they used. Finding a period perfect, matched, set of big 'n littles for a late-forties-early fifities car is a bitch! To the best of my knowledge no slicks in '48, or drag strips for that matter... just dry lakes and street racing. Check out Modelhaus in their nostalgic street rod tires section. They have very specific descriptions as to width, diameters, styles etc. Pretty much the gold standard in Old School aftermarket tires. Here’s the link: http://www.modelhaus.com/index.php?y=&...p;Submit=Search Unfortunately they don't include pictures, but here are links to two great sets of reference pics for Modelhaus tires and other stuff: http://s223.photobucket.com/albums/dd211/O...Pics/08%20pics/ http://public.fotki.com/jsharisky/modelhaus_resin_items/ In addition I recently got a set of Replicas & Miniatures Big ‘n’ Littles that are quite nice. They are on my ’29 A-V8 that I still haven’t finished… (Click on picture for larger image) Lastly, if you carefully pick your way through older AMT kits you can assemble a set, but finding the narrow front ones is quite difficult, let alone, as John poiints out, matching ones to the larger rears! B. BTW, I just noticed that my '29 has more rake than I would like, too! And it's too late for me to do anything about it either... What can this mean? Edited February 20, 2009 by gbk1
tim boyd Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Glad to see all these '29 Roadster projects. The idea of cutting away the fender floorboard and gluing it to the body is brilliant! Man I wish I had thought of that one. Looking forward to seeing this finished. TIM BOYD
Dennis Lacy Posted February 20, 2009 Author Posted February 20, 2009 John: Thanks again for the nice words! I knew going into this that the slicks I chose as rear tires weren't correct - because they're slicks. But, the diameter is a perfect compliment when using the AMT Firestones as front tires, they are appropriately narrow like an early Ford wheel and the vintage "Firestone Gum Dipped" logo on the side looks the part. It was a stroke of luck I found them in my Dad's old stuff, otherwise I'd be S.O.L. After reading your reply it occurred to me that we have a lathe here at work. And while it's for making stuff for 1:1 cars, I think I might be able to make an arbor for the tires and cut some grooves into them with a parting tool. I'm gonna look into it. Problem is, if I ruin the tires I'm screwed! And you hit the nail on the head - trying to put together appropriate bigs & littles from kit tires is, in fact, a bitch! Bernard: Thanks, once again, for the heads up on the aftermarket stuff. While I really enjoy making kit-sourced parts work, I think it will soon be time to step out of my box! Question: are those tires rubber or resin? If they're resin, how does one paint them to look right? Tim: Thank you! It didn't occur to me right away to cut out and use the kit floor. But, comparing it to pictures of the real thing, the floor is actually very accurate and I just couldn't get enthused to make one from scratch. Then, out of nowhere, the idea hit me!
Bernard Kron Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Bernard: ... are those tires rubber or resin? If they're resin, how does one paint them to look right? Both supppliers provide their tires in black resin. They're black, so that's the good news. Getting the tread surface to look properly scuffed is not as easy as on soft "rubber" tires but it can be done with careful sanding. Hard plastic tires that come in white or other non-black colors, and resin tires that come in typical resin colors such as tan or white can be finished in various shades of flat black and can be quite convincing. The few times I've done that I've been surprised at the very decent results I've gotten. Testors makes an enamel paint called "rubber" ( http://www.testors.com/product/0/1183/_/Ru...-_14_oz._Bottle ) which people say looks very convincing. I have never seen it in any of my LHS's so I haven't had a chance to try it. Tamiya apparently also makes a spray on Black Rubber which comes well recommended ( http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...LXUGV3&P=FR ). Tim is on the money about the floor technique. I think many of us will take the AMT '29 much more seriously now that you've shown us how to capture that tasty floor. The AMT kit is chock full of very nice detailing. It's only let down by their misguided and now outdated hot rod parts. B.
Fletch Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) Dennis, as Bernard alluded to the Testors "Rubber" paint is very convincing. It's a blackish/brown color and looks very much like the rubber fans belts and tires I remember seeing in my dads shop as a kid. I have used it for years and have always been happy with the results. As we all know the world is not "Flat Black". As for your dilemma over cutting groves into the slicks that you found in your dad's stash. The tires from Modelhaus are worth every penny. They have slicks in sizes 7.60-15, 8.20-15 and 9.00-15 and at $5 a set would certain;y save the treasures that you found. They come in both sides black wall, both sides wide white walls and single wide white. Their online catalog doesn't have a pic of them and of course I can't find the sets that I have to snap a shot of them either. Here's the link to Modelhaus's Nostalgic Street Rod Tires page: http://www.modelhaus.com/index.php?y=&...p;Submit=Search Edited February 20, 2009 by Fletch
John Goschke Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 After reading your reply it occurred to me that we have a lathe here at work. And while it's for making stuff for 1:1 cars, I think I might be able to make an arbor for the tires and cut some grooves into them with a parting tool. I'm gonna look into it. Problem is, if I ruin the tires I'm screwed! And you hit the nail on the head - trying to put together appropriate bigs & littles from kit tires is, in fact, a bitch! Go ahead and turn those suckers, Dennis! I've got an extra set of those slicks to contribute to the cause if you fry the ones you've got.
mikelo Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 This is coming along very nicely so far. I really like all the work you've done so far. It was good to hear about the motor. Please keep us posted on this one. Mike
Paul Payne Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 FANTASTIC BUILD- CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT FINISHED! ANY THOUGHTS ON COLORS?
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